UKH

Alright,

Just starting a new training program, and did a max heart rate test as a start point using a Polar M400 and chest strap

I had a rough idea using the 220 minus 45 (my age) (which I know is pretty inaccurate...) of what I might get (175), but did a test (good warm up/2 minute hill sprint) and only got 171.

So, I consider myself pretty fit (run few times a week, can do a 20 min 5km, 2 hours steady cross country, do some intervals/hills, can do a 3.30 marathon with no training, weight lift etc etc) so I was surprised I only could get 171.

Should I have got more? Is being able to get a higher max an indication of fitness? I was a bit tired that day (I did a hard 2 hour run 2 days previously) so could that have affected it? Maybe I didn't push myself hard enough? Or is my CV system just not as fit as I thought it was?!

Just to confuse matters I did it with someone else who's also reasonably fit and they got a much higher heart rate (age relevant) but didn't run as far in the 2 minutes.

Cheers for yr confusion clearing!

In reply to JayPee630:

While that's so close to your guestimate I'd not have batted an eyelid...


The answers are 'probably not'...


And 'no'.

Everyone's different. While also considering myself pretty fit, my max is a lot lower than that (has always been lower than calculated figures!) and I'd expect a much wider range than what's bothered you there. What's important is knowing/working to your own rates, not generic ones.

In reply to petestack:

Thanks for yr answer.

If max isn't related to fitness, how come younger people get a higher rate on average? Is it purely a mechanical thing you can't improve with training?

In reply to JayPee630:

many years ago I used to be a pretty good rower. along with my rowing partner we did a 2000 m test on a rowing machine . our coach checked our heartrate every 500 m . my partner max HR was 160 , while mine was 190 . we recorded exactly the same time . everyone is different .

In reply to JayPee630:
From 'Heart Monitor Training for the Compleat Idiot' by John L. Parker, Jr. (don't be put off by the title; it's quality stuff):

'Of all the runners we've tested over the years, I'd say 80% or more end up with numbers that are pretty close to what the standard formulas predict. The problem is that you can never tell which 20% are going to fall one or more standard deviations outside the "normal" range. It has nothing to do with age, athletic background, natural talent, current fitness level, love life, or credit worthiness. Your own Max Heart Rate is just a number that is personal to you.'

In reply to JayPee630:

I cycle with a HRM. Over a three hour ride, working hard, my maximum is the same as someone else of a similar age's average and his maximum is off my scale completely. My average is barely above his trundling along rate. I can still drop him though.

These days I use my HRM as a rough guide to how hard i have ben working over a period, and how close i am to going bang if I'm working hard. It's not an absolute thing - all very personal

In reply to JayPee630:

I don't think max HR means an awful lot and is very personal. I'm 46 and mine has been upto 193 in the last month. Chris Froome's is very low. I follow Annamiek van Vleuten on Strava and her max HR was well over 200 on one ride.

Threshold heart rate is more important I think for setting training zones. Not sure how you assess that for running.

In reply to JayPee630:

That's just the way it is. It tends to come down gradually as you get older, though possibly more slowly in athletes who stay fit.

What you *can* improve with training is the power you can generate at a given HR, and the percent of your max HR that you can sustain for a given time. Or to put it the other way round... the fitter you are, then for a given power output the lower your HR tends to be and the longer you can keep going.

In reply to JayPee630:

Max heart rate can be indicative of your fitness relative to you at another period, but it is not necessarily a sign of your fitness versus another person's. For example, when you're at your fittest you are likely to be able to achieve a higher max heart rate than at other times. That means you need to be 100 % rested, and doing a hard 2 hour run 2 days previously is not the way to do it! My max heart rate is 202 if I'm well rested and I can hit that in races, but after a hard week of training I won't be able to get above about 185. After a very intense week of cycling last year my max heart rate was about 150, and my resting heart rate about 70 rather than about 45. Basically I was completely buggered. Your heart, like your muscles, can get tired.

Some of the best ever ironman competitors have had max heart rates that have differed by up to 50 bpm. It just means that one person has adapted to training by their heart going like the clappers, while the other has adapted by having a huge heart that pumps a lot of blood.

In reply to JayPee630:

Some good information above. Personally i doubt you've got your max , and it's still worth testing. You were getting there with running up a hill, but you need to do it hard , to failure, 3 times with a walk down recovery or very slow jog. You should get there on the third shortly before you stop and throw up.
If you complete the hill three times you're going too slow.

Threshold pace, HR will be around your 3k pb pace . Try running 3k on the track 10 secs a kilo faster than your 5k pace and track HR .

In reply to wbo:

Excellent post and info all, thanks very much! And yes, I did read a variant of the test that's three hills, which I think I might need to do to reach my max. And yes, not so soon after a hard run! D'oh.

In reply to petestack:

And just ordered that book, thanks for the recommendation!

In reply to wbo:


Thanks that is reassuring! Despite pretty hard training I can't get mine over around 150....but then my resting is only 42-46. That makes me a fainter rather than a puker!

Your thoughts on how to get to the max are way harder than I push it...but as I am the vintage side of 50 I think I will just let the ticker off at 150!!

In reply to JayPee630:

I generally only hit my max HR(195) when I'm unfit. The logic I was given for this (Runners Wolrd) is that your fitness improves faster than your leg muscles & hence as you get fitter you find it harder & harder to stress your cardio.

I definitely relate to not hitting max HR after hard training but even in good condition for a race I rarely get above 189. I hit 195 once on a 5K PB & nearly exploded afterwards.

I read that max HR can dip in well trained athletes. The reason given is that at peak HR not enough time is given to fill the heart with blood, a slightly lower HR can hence yield a higher overall blood flow.

In reply to JayPee630:

For what it's worth my max heart rate is 205 while my resting rate is about 45, and without training I doubt I could run a marathon in much under 4 hours so I don't think numbers count for much.

If you're serious about metrics you'd be far better off getting a lactate threshold test or somesuch.

In reply to leon:

The heart is pumping at maximum volume at around 60% of max heart rate.

As the rate increases it pumps less on each stroke but the total volume per minute obviously increases.

In reply to JayPee630:
You need to be well rested your tiredness would have meant you couldn't push to your max.

As WBO posted above; you need to run the hill 3x as hard as you can once won't do it. You need to be very well warmed up. I would say 20-30 mins of very easy running first.

In reply to JayPee630:

Really all your max heart rate and resting heart are used for is to set training zones for yourself. You then undertake a training program based on those training zones. Over a period you'll find you can sustain a higher output for a lower heart rate for a longer period.

I'm not a runner but in cycling basically you can achieve the same speed for a lower heart, or a higher speed for the same heart rate. In endurance cyclists our heart rates are generally quite low and for instance we can ride at 15-17mph at a heart rate of 90bpm or so. In other words fat burning all day pace in which you don't need to eat every hour or so.

Good luck with your training.