UKH

I was attacked at knife point tonight around 7pm by 3 teenagers when I ran north by the canal tow path from Clapton Rowing Club by Springfield Park London E5. They wanted my phone. I managed to escape with both my phone and minimal injuries. I’m posting this to let people know that it is not safe to run there after dark.

In reply to I like climbing:

I'm really sorry to hear that. I'm glad you got away ok.

Stay safe,

BB

In reply to bouldery bits:

Thanks - I’ve been very lucky, it could have been much worse.

In reply to I like climbing:

That's horrible. My sympathies to you. I hope that you are alright, and that you can let your thoughts go to better things, to allow you to sleep soundly and to start to repair the psychological harm done.

In reply to veteye:

Thank you. 

In reply to I like climbing:

Glad you're OK. Look after yourself, and try not to dwell on it if possible.

In reply to Ridge:

Thank you and also to Bouldery Bits and Veteye for the kind words. The Police response was really good but I was shocked when one of them told me that some of his colleagues had been attacked in the same area. I need to run during the day and find different routes.

In reply to I like climbing:

I think different routes (and vary them and the time as well so you don't establish a regular pattern) is the way to go. I don't really subscribe to view that running at night is particularly 'bad', running in daylight and brightly lit areas just make you more visible to muggers (IMHO).

In reply to I like climbing:

Oof, too much adrenaline! Take care and hopefully a one off.

In reply to Ridge:

Great advice which I will follow ! Thanks again.

In reply to I like climbing:

Glad your okay, cowardly scum hiding behind a knife piss me off to the extreme. 

You would like to believe if this is happening and has happened to police as well that they would do something about it. 

It's only a matter of time before vigilante justice starts. I bet there will be a quick response then to protect the muggers. 

In reply to I like climbing:

City canal towpaths should be avoided at night - no passing traffic, minimal dogwalkers and other legit users. I used to live by the F&C in Glasgow and cycled to work along the towpath, except when working nights when I kept to the streets.

In reply to steveriley:

Absolutely! The adrenaline helped me ignore the cuts and bruises but I’m feeling them today ! Thanks for your support.

In reply to Dax H:

Thank you - it will be interesting to see what happens but the police are being very helpful.

In reply to streapadair:

Thanks - wise advice. 

In reply to I like climbing:

Sorry to hear that. My brother got attacked at exactly the same place a year ago. I hope you're doing ok

In reply to Ned:

So sorry to hear that and I hope he’s ok. I’m feeling much better , thanks and everyone has been so supportive.

I run on that stretch once a week at night up to the A406 and back which is 10k. I use a head torch and really don’t see more than a couple of other runners during that time. Most of that run is really dark.
Since last night I’ve been made aware of a number of incidents around there and the gang habits. It apparently starts as a number of attacks, the police then make arrests and a period of calm takes place. Weeks later another gang move in and the cycle repeats itself. The gangs realise that most runners have a phone on them.....

I didn’t know all this and have been very lucky to have been running there at night for a few years without any problems. I also run at night from the Rosemary Branch canal entrance in Islington/Shoreditch down to Limehouse but while it is quite busy there are a few stretches that are lonely and dark. 
I like nighttime running but I’m going to have to go with other people from now on. 
 

Ironically my 17 year old son has now really got into night running and he goes through Finsbury Park where we live, up the Parkland Walk. That is pitch black all the way.....He’s now as concerned as me so as well as being my regular climbing partner we’ll be running together, but we’ll need more people to join us for night runs. We were also doing night bouldering sessions but we’ll knock that on the head !

In reply to I like climbing:

Really sorry to hear. That must have been scary. If you feel like sharing I would be interested to hear how this unfolded? It might influence my actions if ever in similar situation.

You weren't able to run off before they got hold of you?

You decided to try and keep hold of your phone?

How did you manage to get away?

Hope you are doing OK and you are never in that situation again.

In reply to I like climbing:

That's really scary. Really pleased you are ok.

Im staggered that we, as runners, don't hear or suffer more of this. Unlike cyclists*, the 'kit' we use is largely without value; sweaty trainers, grotty shorts etc but I see many runners, mainly women around here, with a phone strapped to an arm. Surely an easy-ish target and certainly an advertisement. Even those of us who don't run with phones, me included,  are often running with watches which, unlike phones, are not locked and could be much more easily sold on. Most are worth £100 plus.

*why dont we hear more about cyclist muggings? Bikes are so valuable. Is it as simple as they use the transport as the escape vehicle?

In reply to mountain.martin:

Thanks for the message. I couldn’t run off before they got to me because I was unaware of them. They came from behind and then ran along side before stopping me. I’d only been running for a few minutes and was going slow because I’m carrying a bit of an injury. 
I wasn’t going to give my phone up without trying everything to keep it. I kept dodging the swipes and kept going backwards. I knew if I kept going back there was more chance of people appearing from the Rowing Club. They were fairly inexperienced otherwise they could have finished me off when I fell over to avoid being hit. One of them should gone behind me but they stayed in front of me.
They kept telling me to turn my head torch off which was helping me as it went straight into their eyes. I began shouting loudly and in the end I managed to get a bit further back and make a run for it. Fortunately they gave up which was interesting because I’m much older and thought they would fancy their chances catching me but I guess I was too near to civilisation by that time.

I’m going to get some safety advice.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Thanks ! You’re right about phones and watches which make us a target. Runners as well as cyclists being mugged doesn’t seem to get much attention and I’d be interested to know how many do get into these situations.

I was wearing my iphone in a Free Train chest harness. It’s comfortable and I just got it last week because wearing it on my arm was beginning to become uncomfortable. It was also under my jacket so wasn’t visible. I was also wearing my Apple Watch.

I’m going to research getting a very loud portable alarm if such a thing exists as well as learning best practice general safety and how best to deal with anything similar in the future.

In reply to I like climbing:

If you are looking for alarms a rape alarm is probably what you are after. Light, loud and easy to activate. 

In reply to I like climbing:

Thanks for sharing that. Food for thought.

In reply to Stuart Williams:

Thanks for that ! Just seen a lot on Amazon and recommendations to buy pepper spray and defence spray which turns the attacker’s skin red and lasts for a week ! 
I just need to check these are all legal but this looks promising !

In reply to I like climbing:

It sounds like you instinctively did everything right, tried to get away to safety as fast as possible, shouted which would have thrown them a bit, didn't try and fight them (which was a really, really smart move on your part), and just by chance probably really f**ked up their night vision by blinding them with your headtorch.

Other than the really good idea about getting a rape alarm, and maybe working on your situational awareness a bit, I don't think there's a great deal more, other than running in a group.

A more powerful headtorch might be worth it, (a few hundred lumens "accidentally" in the retina at point blank range and a screaming rape alarm should stun them while you leg it). 

Plus extra congratulations for not 'freezing' or trying to talk your way out of it.

That sounds horrendous. I have to say in that situation I'd just be handing my phone over. Seems like a much better option than a knife wound... 

In reply to Ridge:

Thanks v much ! I will definitely learn about situational awareness so many thanks for suggesting that. Really good to hear your other comments.

I’m going to try and turn this into something positive. I’ve made a lot of people locally aware of the danger on our local neighbourhood sites and people have appreciated the warning. I may even a local run together.
Once I’ve found out about all the safety I hope to post something.

In reply to GDes:

Thank you ! I was lucky. I need to learn more about dealing with those type of situations because I’m sure they are all different. I believe handing a phone over is the best idea a lot of the time.

In reply to I like climbing:

Running along the canal, is a great escape from the city, but there's not much in the way of escape routes. As you mentioned, if one had come up behind, you'd have been in deeper trouble. You can't go one way, because of the canal and can't go the other, because there will likely be a fence or similar. Your options then are comply, fight or swim. None of which are particularly attractive.

I'd look for areas that have a number of escape routes. Open park land, if there is any in the area. Even on a street you have the option of crossing over, or shouting / flagging a vehicle if things get on top. I'd also think about times, as well. I'd hazard a guess that there would be fewer scroats around at 06:00.

I'm guessing that you're going through delayed shock at the moment. Thinking about all the things you could have done differently; or other potential outcomes good and bad etc. You seem like you want to learn from it, rather than let it knock your confidence. Which is great. Be thankful that you weren't hurt. And don't let the little sh*ts spoil your running. 

In reply to I like climbing:  I hope this doesn't put you off too much.  It's 20 years since I lived in London, but occasional incidents happened back then as well.   I would say avoid some areas, but one night on a club run in Coombe Hill (posh) we came across a mugging in progress and restrained the offender till the police turned up

Bike muggings happen

In reply to dread-i:

Thanks for that. You make some really good points. I’m very grateful I wasn’t hurt and will keep analysing the whole thing. I think there is a bit of delayed shock going on but I’m trying to process what happened and move forward. Determined not to have it spoil my running !
 

In reply to wbo2:

Thanks for that. And Well done for restraining the mugger ! 

In reply to I like climbing:

Most are illegal in the UK as they are considered a weapon. I got my wife a rape alarm that straps onto the arm. But my advice would be to avoid problem or potential problem areas if possible or run with another person, as you plan to do with your son. This is what I sometimes do (with my son, not yours!), but he is faster than me and he pushes the pace, probably good training!

In reply to I like climbing:

Just noticed this. As RX 78 said, don't even go there. You can get dye sprays, which claim to be legal, but you're on fairly dodgy ground.

Priority one is don't even get in that situation in the first place.

Priority two is work on your speedwork to get away!

In reply to RX-78:

Many thanks ! I had a chat today to the Police and asked them whether sprays were legal and as you said they confirmed they weren’t. 
My son is also a bit faster but it’s good training !

Avoiding problem areas is the way to go.......

In reply to I like climbing:

Good work getting away.  There’s nothing quite like having the clarity in a moment of trouble to run a good direction, and the strength to run faster.  Best not to rely on that, but it’s easy to preach at others or yourself in hindsight; it’s better to move on.

This may come back at you at unexpected times for a while.  Be ready for that - have a plan to do what ever works for you to calm down and ride it out.  If the revisiting moments don’t start to fade in intensity and frequency after a few weeks, talk to your GP. Try and avoid or diffuse stressful situations for a few weeks as they may snap you into the moment.

In reply to Ridge:

Normally if I tell someone that I vary time time and route of my commute on a daily basis they treat me like a lunatic...

In reply to Ridge:

Your advice is great ! I’m going to do more hill work on Hampstead Heath !
I’m actually surprised that Amazon recommend sprays to UK users that are illegal here ! Glad I checked this with the police today.

I’ll be careful where I run from now on. I took too many risks before. I think I’ll apply that to my climbing too........

In reply to wintertree:

Your advice is much appreciated and that raises a very interesting point. I think of myself as strong but yesterday I had difficulty dealing with it. I’m better today but I’ll watch out. At the moment every time I close my eyes I get a replay of the whole thing. I went bouldering today and a couple of people who were just having a walk appeared and my immediate thought was whether they might try and mug me. Ridiculous I know but I think we all take a bit of time to get back to normal.

Funnily enough my GP is a runner. We bump into each other quite often.

In reply to wintertree:

When you do 8 point checks under the vehicle before getting in they really get freaked out...

In reply to Ridge:

Just checking the tyre pressures and fluid levels...

In reply to I like climbing:

I found that worse than the actual event, but it faded.  You’re taking about it, which is a great way to help it fade.  If it doesn’t, you know what to do.  

It’s not ridiculous at all.  It’s situational awareness.  What’s difficult after things go south is maintaining situational awareness without becoming distressed or paranoid.  Perhaps you’ll go back to never noticing these things or perhaps you’ll have a little bit of your brain devoted to running “what if” scenarios all the time.  If it’s the later you just have to make sure it doesn’t get in the way of a normal life, it’ll settle down in time and become a useful intuition. 

In reply to wintertree:

Thanks again. Great advice.

In reply to I like climbing:

I'm glad the experience hasn't put you off.

In terms of safety advice, articles aimed at female runners are often full of useful tips about personal safety while running, some are mentioned above. Female runners tend have this stuff drummed into them from all sides, and most have had a few experiences that make them very wary.

My main ones are:

- varying my route, and avoiding places where I've had hassle before (sadly a fairly regular occurrence when running in urban areas)

- carrying an alarm (if in town in the dark on my own, I don't bother when fell running)

- staying very aware of the people around me, and where they are moving (if you listen to music, keep it on a low volume or only in one ear)

- avoiding routes where there are few people, bad lighting and no escape routes - like a canal tow path.

- aim for roads which are well lit, and where there are likely to be people and cars around to provide help if needed.

If I pass someone I feel unsure about, I look them square in the face so they know I could give the police a good description. I also don't run so fast I get properly exhausted unless I'm in a group - I like to have enough energy to get away if a situation feels scary. 

Tbh, these days my main tactic is not to run in town any more! I feel far safer on my own up on the moor in the dark than I do running in an urban area (I appreciate that's not much help if you live in London though).

In reply to DalesClimber:

Thanks v much, this is really useful ! I hadn’t really considered things from a female running perspective but it makes so much sense.

In reply to I like climbing:

I forgot to add one of the main ones! 

I don't know if you use Strava, but I never have my Strava set to public. Only my followers (who are limited to people I actually know in real life) can see my runs and bike rides.

Some people don't always realise how easy it is to view activities on Strava and work out where someone lives and their pattern of activities, whether they are likely to own a fancy bike etc.

Keeping it private means I don't appear on segment leaderboards, but I figure I can live without the ego boost! (And I can compare myself against leaderboards without being on them.)

(Edit: My theory is that the reason the female leaderboards are often more sparsely populated than the male ones is because lots of women take the same approach as me.)

In reply to DalesClimber:

Interesting that you mention Strava.I use Runmeter which can link to Strava and I’ve been thinking of using it simply because quite a few of my friends have begun running. I don’t think I would have thought too much about the public / friends setting so thanks for flagging that. 

In reply to I like climbing:

Hi, sorry to hear about your experience. Sounds very scary and definitely food for thought.

W.r.t Strava, there's a more granular setting than going totally private. You can set a privacy zone around your house (you choose the distance), so it's not possible to see the starts and ends of your runs. This might be a good compromise if you like appearing on segment leaderboards (outside the privacy zone) or other features that need a public profile.

In reply to I like climbing:

Glad you're ok. I personally don't run with my phone, just a cheap MP3 player and Garmin watch.

In reply to I like climbing:

This is not related specifically to running but when I am in a strange (to me) place where there could be issues I carry an old, basic phone with a pay as you go sim and a sacrificial wallet with foreign notes in it and out of date credit/debit cards. My plan (not had to use it yet, thank goodness) is to throw them on the floor and run!

In reply to mountainbagger:

Thanks for the tip ! Very helpful !

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Great idea ! Many thanks.

In reply to phizz4:

I love the idea of the foreign notes and the old cards ! Thanks for that.

In reply to I like climbing:

After I reading this thread yesterday, last night woke myself and my partner up with a scream as I was about to be robbed at knifepoint at Stanage in my dream. To actually go through this sounds actually horrific, take care.

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Oh no ! What an awful dream ! Thanks for the message but I’m now managing to put it behind me as if it was long ago.......

In reply to I like climbing:

Stanage isn't that bad.

In reply to Ridge:

That’s a relief ! Actually when I’ve climbed there it’s been really friendly

In reply to mountainbagger:

I do use the privacy zone as well, but I don't think the privacy zone addresses all the safety concerns. If someone has Strava turned on when they pass you, there is a feature (flyby, I think it's called), which enables them to see your profile and activities etc. Just because they can't see your exact address doesn't mean they can't clock your expensive bike, and your pattern of activity / regular routes etc.

I know mainly runners and cyclists use Strava, but there's nothing to stop anyone with a phone from having the app recording when they bump into you.

Previously, if your activities were set to public, Strava would default to enabling the 'flyby' setting. I think this has now changed so you have to consciously enable it (following pressure from users who recognised the safety issue), but it's worth being aware of.

Social media companies often enable "helpful" new features without warning users, which is exactly what Strava did with this one. I really don't want a stranger who I happen to pass on a run to be able to look up my profile and work out where I'm likely to be running in future.

In reply to DalesClimber:

I think you now have to 'opt in' to flyby, I think it's been disabled on my account rather than being on by default.

In reply to phizz4:

Good idea. There was a spate of break-ins round our way a few years ago, mainly for car keys but of course laptops etc were being lifted. I became quite paranoid about it so when away for weekends I hid my laptop and hard drives but left a couple of dead laptops in the living room and keys for a previous car which had been written off.

In reply to phizz4:

I've seen the sacrifical wallet/phone mentioned a few times on travelling tips for strange countries - use low denomination notes, obviously.

In reply to I like climbing:

See my recent thread on MP3 players - I've just ordered a Sandisk Clip Sport Plus and am about to start a separate thread on bluetooth headphones...

In reply to 65:

The loft is a good place for hiding laptops - thieves don't generally risk being caught in the loft.

We have a laptop safe in one of the wardrobes, screwed to the floor, which contains all the passports, jewellery, spare keys and so on.

In reply to I like climbing:

Sorry to hear that. That's a horrible experience, glad that you are ok

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I have visions of muggers in far away places with stange sounding names rolling their eyes at their victims and saying "You misunderstand Sir/Madam, the real wallet if you please"

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Many thanks, I’ll read them and take note.

In reply to Trangia:

Thank you, I appreciate that.

In reply to I like climbing:

I just use redundant notes. There are Malaysian Ringgits, some Italian Lira and Icelandic Krona in there!