John Kelly Grand Round

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 Nic Barber 17 Aug 2020

Part 2 of 'The Hartley Slam' underway with the Paddy Buckley in the bag.

More dot-watching here: http://live.opentracking.co.uk/grandround20/?fbclid=IwAR12J7D9-YQ0SDkag041L...

 airborne 17 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

Nice one. 

Just in case people don't know what John is up to, his Grand Round aims to do the Paddy Buckley, Bob Graham and Charlie Ramsey rounds, continuously, each completed within the usual 24-hour target, and all connected by bike. Looks like he's already finished the Paddy.

XXXX 17 Aug 2020
In reply to airborne:

Interesting route through the Queensway Tunnel, is that open to cyclists all the time? Or does he need to time it right?

 r0b 17 Aug 2020
In reply to XXXX:

You can cycle through the tunnel between 8pm and 6am

Roadrunner6 17 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

Wow, he cant have fully recovered from his Pennine Way, how long ago was that?

 petemeads 17 Aug 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Mid July, exactly a month ago.

In reply to Nic Barber:

Amazing, I know a few people who have done one of the rounds and have paced a few legs. Doing one round is mightily impressive to me. 

I can't comprehend what it would take to do this.

 Robert Durran 17 Aug 2020
In reply to airborne:

> Just in case people don't know what John is up to, his Grand Round aims to do the Paddy Buckley, Bob Graham and Charlie Ramsey rounds, continuously, each completed within the usual 24-hour target, and all connected by bike. Looks like he's already finished the Paddy.

Does the whole thing have to be completed in three days?

 Luke90 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Does the whole thing have to be completed in three days?

No, I think he was aiming for 100 hours on the first try earlier in the year. I just read his blog post where he analysed that attempt and he suggested maybe increasing the target time to 120 hours, which would also mean allowing a pleasingly round 24 hours for each leg. Not sure whether that's the target he's settled on or not.

 petemeads 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Luke90:

If you look at his tracker splits he seems to be aiming around 112 hours 25 mins - he arrived in Keswick a couple of minutes up on target...

1
OP Nic Barber 18 Aug 2020
In reply to petemeads:

So it looks like a ~22h Paddy, 5-6h kip, then 12h ride to Keswick.

Regards recovery, he just seems to be one of those people who recovers really well and mentally can go again. I suppose he does have the added incentive of getting it done before his 4th sprog makes an arrival in September

 Michael Hood 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

If you read his stuff on the Berkeley Marathons you can see that he is able to push into areas of endurance (& pain?) that most of us just don't visit.

If he's managed to get some decent sleep in (i.e. 3+ hours) then he'll be awesome. Incidentally, it didn't look like he was dawdling on the cycling either.

Post edited at 09:34
 r0b 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Read his blog on his Pennine Way record, it was not pretty!

https://randomforestrunner.com/2020/07/a-new-pennine-way-record/

 kathrync 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

It looks like his tracker has gone a bit haywire this morning.  Opentracking is showing splits for Skiddaw, Gt Calva and Blencathra, but the track looks like he followed the line of the A66 from Keswick to Threlkeld before starting up to Clough Head.

OP Nic Barber 18 Aug 2020
In reply to kathrync:

Starting the BG from Threlkeld is a bit left-field!

 kathrync 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

I am assuming the tracker malfunctioned because he has recorded splits for the three peaks north of the A66.

 GraB 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

I think he left his tracker in Keswick to start with and the times at Skiddaw, Gt Calva and Blencathra were reported in. He picked up his tracker at Threlkeld from the support crew.

 Ridge 18 Aug 2020
In reply to kathrync:

> I am assuming the tracker malfunctioned because he has recorded splits for the three peaks north of the A66.

Yeah, it's an odd one, the times are consistent with the schedule so must be a software glitch. (The mad woman in the US who stalks ultrarunners and claims all their runs are faked will love it though 🙄).

 Ridge 18 Aug 2020
In reply to GraB:

> I think he left his tracker in Keswick to start with and the times at Skiddaw, Gt Calva and Blencathra were reported in. He picked up his tracker at Threlkeld from the support crew.

That would explain it!

 kathrync 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Ridge:

> The mad woman in the US who stalks ultrarunners and claims all their runs are faked will love it though 🙄.

I haven't come across this - do you think she's just jealous or something?

 Martin Wing 18 Aug 2020
In reply to kathrync: Google Jane Benfer and you will find loads about her.

 airborne 18 Aug 2020
In reply to kathrync:

Odd - when I checked in earlier this morning the tracker showed him on Great Calva, so he seemed to have it with him then, and it was working.

 kathrync 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Martin Wing:

> Google Jane Benfer and you will find loads about her.

This seems like something I should wait to do after work!

 jk25002 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

Just noticed that if he keeps up with his schedule he might bump into Donnie Campbell in the Mamores on Thursday...

It's quite an if, but there's something satisfying about that overlap.

Roadrunner6 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

I'm surprised he didnt go N to S just because the Paddy doesn't have the 24 hr requirement anyway.

 petemeads 18 Aug 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Paddy Buckley might not require sub-24 but John Kelly is determined the individual sections of the Grand Round should all be under 24 hours...

I must admit that watching all the recent hillrunning activity has made me keen to have a go at the Paddy, taking advantage of the lack of 24 hour requirement. I reckon 36 hours might be on the cards, with a good kip in Llanberis in the middle.

Post edited at 14:33
Roadrunner6 18 Aug 2020
In reply to petemeads:

The Tranter Round appeals to me. I can nip off when back in the UK and solo trot around it in 15-16 hours and get home. 

A bunch of US trail runners want me to organise a big BGR trip.. I tell you there's a business opportunity there.

OP Nic Barber 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

BG knocked out in something around 23h.

 petemeads 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

Looks like 23:40 - skin of his teeth, and the same as last time (and me!).

 r0b 19 Aug 2020
In reply to petemeads:

Weather was pretty poor apparently, like last time!

 DaveHK 19 Aug 2020
In reply to r0b:

> Weather was pretty poor apparently, like last time!

Forecast poor for most of his RR too although at least the met office seem to have dropped the lightening warnings!

 GraB 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

Schedule has gone out a bit, I believe, and he's not expecting to leave from Keswick until midday - some sleep is needed - understandably. I think this still puts him on a sub 120 hr schedule, but only just.

 Michael Hood 19 Aug 2020
In reply to petemeads:

Somewhere in his blog he comments about going off too fast last year and that this year he's going to pace the rounds (PB & BG at least) to just under 24 hours so that he leaves himself more "fresh" (ha-ha, not sure if that's the word he used but it was certainly that sentiment) for the RR.

So skin of his teeth was probably being monitored most of the way round and he's likely to have had the capacity to speed up a bit if necessary.

 Michael Hood 19 Aug 2020
In reply to GraB:

I don't think the tracker ETA/splits is his actual schedule - I think it's some kind of algorithm that splits the intended route up into time chunks based on distance/elevation/transport mode etc. Also from looking at some of his blog, I think the sleep deprivation is one area he really worries about - especially when he gets to that "literally falling asleep wherever he is" stage.

Post edited at 09:37
 r0b 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Yeah I wouldn't read too much into the schedule, he didn't set off from Capel for the bike to Keswick until about 2pm. I would expect similar today, think he is broadly trying to get each leg done in 24 hours so 5 days total.

 Michael Hood 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

> Incidentally, it didn't look like he was dawdling on the cycling either.

I'd totally forgotten that he was an ex-Ironman triathlete so he'd be pretty good on a bike. Apparently it was the swimming which he was (by his own account) rubbish at. So this duathalon format must be pretty ideal for him.

It will be interesting to see whether this (once John has hopefully completed it) will be attempted by others trying to do a better time and end up becoming another "standard" endurance challenge.

 GraB 19 Aug 2020
In reply to r0b:

That was dictated by having to wait until after 8pm to go through the Queensway tunnel. As it was, he still got there early and was able to rest up, eat and change over road support.

Post edited at 10:03
 petemeads 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

As regards his schedule, however he calculated it he was hitting the BG splits almost perfectly - check Scafell - but the drag down from Robinson shows just how tired he must have been at the end (and why I chose to do it anticlockwise - jogging down Skiddaw is easy...). Hopefully he has some decent help on the next bike leg (last time he had Ray Dring's lad Craig lined up to ride with, but only got an hour up the road before calling it).

PS Paul Parker says Hi! - we have a Bowline wrinklies bike ride most Tuesdays...

Post edited at 10:08
 Michael Hood 19 Aug 2020
In reply to GraB:

Thanks, please keep the forum informed with any real info if you are able to. When there's no tracker movement, it's a bit of an "intelligent" (???😁) guessing game trying to combine the info from the tracking site with anything John may have said on his blog.

We're all rooting for John to succeed.

And kudos to you for supporting. Hope the weather's ok for Ramsey.

 GraB 19 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Will do. Thanks. Weather overnight Thursday into Friday looks, erm, lovely...

Roadrunner6 19 Aug 2020
In reply to GraB:

Yeah he's again had bad weather on the BGR. I saw Karl Gray broke the Josh Naylor Record in bad conditions.

OP Nic Barber 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Just arrive at Glen Nevis hostel at about 7.30

 Michael Hood 20 Aug 2020
In reply to anyone:

What's happening - it appears that the cycle to FW has taken longer than expected, and now both John's & the support's trackers have moved to a couple of miles north of FW???

 petemeads 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Looks like someone has offered him a cup of tea and a shower in a private house - he must need it!

 Michael Hood 20 Aug 2020
In reply to petemeads:

Could have got that in the youth hostel - I fear he's had to give up again - hope not but there's some unexplained times in the cycling, like 40 mins to get past Ballachulish - we shall see.

 petemeads 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Jen Scotney's twitter suggests road closure en route... He's still got 3 hours to get out on the round, or a bit more if he can get under 24 hours after all he has endured so far. Let's hope he is up to it - the weather could be worse but it isn't going to be good.

Post edited at 08:22
 r0b 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Looks like he stopped for a sleep towards the N end of Loch Lomond between midnight and 2am but other than that he was making consistent progress on the bike through the night

 DaveHK 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

> What's happening - it appears that the cycle to FW has taken longer than expected, and now both John's & the support's trackers have moved to a couple of miles north of FW???

That's an odd place to have gone unless there's been some issue and they know someone there or he's sacked it.

 r0b 20 Aug 2020
In reply to DaveHK:

He's starting the Ramsay Round at 11am according to Twitter, pretty sure he's gone to someone's house for some R&R

In reply to r0b:

Good plan given that he might as well get as much rest as possible within the time constraints he set himself.  he must be totally strung out by now. What a challenge.

 GraB 20 Aug 2020
In reply to r0b:

This is definitely what has happened. He biked to Glen Nevis YH (from Keswick), then took a lift to Banavie to get some rest, shower, food etc with somebody who offered to put them up. He will then take a lift back to the youth hostel to start the Ramsay. Scheduled (re-scheduled) start for the CRR is at 11am this morning.

There were / are major roadworks on the A82 north of Bridge of Orchy, with an overnight road closure last night. Amnesties, where cars are escorted through are only at scheduled times, with the road fully re-opened at  5am. So there was a bit of downtime in the support van while waiting for the 5am re-opening. I think they had been aiming to get through at one of the amnesty openings, but the weather was atrocious and, I think, slowed them down a bit.

 DaveHK 20 Aug 2020
In reply to r0b:

> He's starting the Ramsay Round at 11am according to Twitter, pretty sure he's gone to someone's house for some R&R

Yup, just spoke to mate who's running leg 2 of RR with him. Some doubt that it will be sub 24 but still keen.

 GraB 20 Aug 2020
In reply to DaveHK:

I think its going to be a big stretch, given the weather forecast!! I hope though.

 Michael Hood 20 Aug 2020
In reply to GraB:

Thanks for the update so we (especially me) can stop speculating (which I think all comes about because we're all so keen on him to manage it).

 r0b 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

And he's started the Ramsay on time. Go John!

 Welsh Kate 20 Aug 2020
In reply to r0b:

Open a book on the grid ref where he and Donnie Campbell will pass on the western Mamores?!

Post edited at 11:27
 Harry Jarvis 20 Aug 2020
In reply to r0b:

He's going to bump into Donnie Campbell shortly - they're both at the west end of the Mamores. As I type, Kelly is on his way up Mullach nan Coirean and Campbell is on his way to Stob Ban. They should cross paths in the next hour or so. Two remarkable athletes. 

 Welsh Kate 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Harry Jarvis:

Well, I had my eye on that flat curvey bit just down the eastern side of the top of Stob Ban for the meeting! Wonder if they knew this was likely to happen before they set out this morning!

 Welsh Kate 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Harry Jarvis:

I think they've stopped for a chat!

 Harry Jarvis 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Welsh Kate:

> I think they've stopped for a chat!

It would be lovely to think they were able to do that. I don't suppose they'd be keen to hang about for very long - Campbell's still got a bit of bike ride this afternoon, and Kelly is definitely on a tight schedule. 

 Welsh Kate 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

So just out of interest, do you swim Loch Treig on the Ramsay or run up to Fersit?

 CathS 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

Wow! Kelly is bombing around the Mamores now. Making good time on his new schedule.

Roadrunner6 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Welsh Kate:

You pass each end of it on the way out and then back..

 kathrync 20 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

Looks like he is safely through the southern peaks of the RR and making the long trek over to Beinn na Lap.

Go John!

 timlewis884 20 Aug 2020

Does anyone know how he is doing now? He hasn't been tracked since 710pm. Really rooting for him now, the weather is set to worsen!

 Ridge 20 Aug 2020
In reply to timlewis884:

I'm assuming no mobile coverage in that area.

 DaveHK 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

If the tracker is right, he's slowed down dramatically on that 2nd leg of the Ramsay and there's no chance of being <24hrs. A shame for him but I don't feel it detracts from the achievement much, still an absolutely phenomenal performance.

 Ridge 21 Aug 2020
In reply to DaveHK:

Looks like he's had a really rough night. As you say, phenomenal feat of endurance, even if he doesn't meet his own strict criteria.

 DaveHK 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Ridge:

> Looks like he's had a really rough night. As you say, phenomenal feat of endurance, even if he doesn't meet his own strict criteria.

I don't know him but I suspect that might trouble him more than others. Everyone else is still totally in awe! 

 Ridge 21 Aug 2020
In reply to DaveHK:

> I don't know him but I suspect that might trouble him more than others. Everyone else is still totally in awe! 

Yes, don't know him personally but seems to be an incredibly driven and focused personality. His post run analyses are fascinating.

 r0b 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Ridge:

From John's wife on Twitter:

@RndmForestRunnr has begun final leg of RR! Conditions were terrible thru the night. He's very tired but climbing steadily. I hope he can feel so many people willing him on to finish this 🙏🏼. We're all so proud!
#thegrandround
📷: Graham Briffett https://t.co/a3d4wToXAe

 r0b 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

More news from Twitter

We hiked out to the end of Leg 1 of @RndmForestRunnr Final round of his grand round. Moving really well, little down on time but eating and chatting. Weather out here is shockingly bad, torrential rain and it’s cold. We got more layers on him for next leg #grandround #johnkelly

 Michael Hood 21 Aug 2020
In reply to r0b:

From what I've read on JKs blog, he doesn't seem like the kind of person who gives up when he hasn't achieved his goals (using typical British understatement here 😁).

I would not be surprised if he has another crack at this next year using the lessons he'll have learned from this year's experience. Probably depends on what other challenges he's got lined up, and also of course having a young baby around.

Regardless, whatever the final outcome of this year's grand round, it's a phenomenal achievement that will inspire many people to up their goals (*) and it also adds another target for elite ultra people to include in their canon.

* for example I'm wondering whether I should (now over 60) try and do the BG round. It'll require some considerable training but I already wander all over the Lake District (done Wainwrights, Fellrangers now on outlying, Birkett's, Nutalls, etc).

 r0b 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Likewise, this summer's exploits have put a crack at the BGR high up the list for next year. It has been lurking in my mind for a few years (I supported my friend's round on Leg 3 in 2018 and two legs of his Paddy Buckley last year) and I'm pretty sure I will regret it if I don't at least have a go. Just need to get un-injured!

 r0b 21 Aug 2020

And don't forget John is raising money for the Stephen Lawrence Charitable Trust, would be great to get him to his fundraising target by the time he gets back to Glen Nevis!

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/hartleyslam

 petemeads 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Worth thinking about the Joss Naylor challenge as a warm-up. Only 48 miles/17,000 feet but as a 60 year old you don't get the full 24 hours unfortunately. I do, and will need it!

Still not managed to recce the bits that are not included in the BGR, hope to get out there once the Lakes has emptied a bit...

 gavmac 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

Working through the Grey Corries now. Massive respect! It really was miserable in Fort William last night. Heavy showers at the moment but not as windy as through the night. That climb onto CMD will feel torture. Gosh actually, the descent down the tourist path after that mileage will be torture. Mind boggling effort.

 r0b 21 Aug 2020
In reply to gavmac:

"Just" the Aonachs, CMD and the Ben to go!

 gavmac 21 Aug 2020
In reply to r0b:

Indeed! It will feel like a long way from Sgurr Coinnich Beag up Spinks to Aonach Beag. The descent from Aonach Mor before CMD is never fun. Mighty respect for such a huge undertaking.

 Michael Hood 21 Aug 2020
In reply to gavmac:

Are there any FKTs for completing all 3 rounds:

  • With/without them all being <24hrs
  • With journeys between being self-powered or with driving (or helicopter?) in-between
  • What's the quickest anyone's done all 3 (from start of 1st to finish of 3rd)

etc.

 r0b 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Mike Hartley is the only other person who has attempted the 3 continuously AFAIK, and he was driven between them.

"In 1990, Hartley ran the three main British twenty-four hour mountain challenges (Ramsay's Round, the Bob Graham Round, and the Paddy Buckley Round) one after the other, completing them in a total time of 3 days, 14 hours and 20 minutes including travelling time between the routes"

His RR and BGR were both sub-24, his PBR wasn't

 Ridge 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

CMD and the Ben to go. Go on lad!

In reply to Ridge:

Should finish in about 5 days 10hrs, which is a stunning aceivement.  I wonder if anyone is cabable of doing the 100hrs or the 5 days (120hrs) that had been mentioned?

 Michael Hood 21 Aug 2020
In reply to mountain.martin:

The challenge is now obviously out there but any serious contenders will know about John Kelly and his record/abilities/history etc and what this shows about the difficulty of getting it done - might act as a bit of dissuader in the way that Mike Hartley's Pennine Way FKT was a psychological hurdle.

Of course being a mild weather god rather than a rain & storm god (as John Kelly appears to be) would make all these enterprises easier. 

Will be interesting to read JK's thoughts in his blog once he's had some sleep.

Post edited at 18:39
 petemeads 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

Tracker is broken again - back at the YHA yesterday... And fixed - that was quick!

Post edited at 19:19
 r0b 21 Aug 2020
In reply to petemeads:

He's over the Ben, all downhill from here although given the state his legs are probably in that might not be a good thing!

 Ian Parnell 21 Aug 2020
In reply to r0b:

This clip of John is a glimpse into what he's put himself through. Remember this is one of the top endurance athletes in the world, now looking mortal.

https://twitter.com/staceholloway/status/1296890724089290753

Worth donating for the good causes he's fund raising for.

Roadrunner6 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Ian Parnell:

What was his final time for the Ramsay? Incredible effort.

 r0b 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

35 hours ish I think

 bouldery bits 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Nic Barber:

Ridiculous.

 kathrync 21 Aug 2020
In reply to Ian Parnell:

That's what I look like walking down any hill on loose ground  

More seriously, he looks trashed - so glad he got through it. I've put some of my pennies in his tin.

 GraB 24 Aug 2020
In reply to Ian Parnell:

I was supporting John on the last leg from Fersit back to Glen Nevis along with 3 others. When we met him at the dam at just after 5am, I think its fair to say that he was not in a good way and it was hard for all of us to see how it was going to be possible for him to finish. He had 40 minutes sleep in a bivi bag that had been set out for him and emerged not any better and shivering uncontrollably. Pretty worrying given where we were headed and how committing that leg is once you're beyond Lairig Leacach.

On the climbs at least he seemed to get stronger as the day wore on and he fairly flew up Spinks' ridge, CMD and even the bouldery last bit onto the summit of the Ben. Very, very impressive. The descents were what caused him the most grief, as he had tendonitis in his shins, and probably a whole load of other crap too. That said, when the message came through that he was potentially on for bettering Mike Hartley's cummulative time from 1990, he did try to trott down from the summit for a while. Clearly he didn't need to do this,as the records aren't really comparable, but he still found something deep inside to at least try. In the end it was too much and I think it was something like half an hour longer than MH's time.

Although the weather was crap, it fortunately wasn't quite as crap as the forecast - probably 40-50mph winds and rain all day, rather than 50-60 with gusts of 70, which was the forecast.

I've never seen anybody willing to suffer as much as he did. Not even anywhere close. He did say (and was adamant about it) that he wasn't doing it again... but who knows? Though obviously he'll go and get the sub 24h for the Ramsay at some point.

In reply to GraB:

Thanks for the first hand report. He is obviously harder than nails. 

You mentioned trying to get under Mike Hartley's time. But further up the thread someone said his time was 3 days 14 hours, but being driven between runs.

Did Mike also do a longer self propelled effort that John was aiming for? I thought maybe he was the first to go self propelled.

 GraB 24 Aug 2020
In reply to mountain.martin:

No, as I say, the two records are not really comparable.  I'm not for one minute saying one is better than the other BTW, as Johns aim was to try and get some recovery during the bike phases. As I understand it, MH basically just piled straight out of the car after a few hours and got running again, but somebody better informed would be able to confirm that.

Post edited at 11:23
Roadrunner6 24 Aug 2020
In reply to GraB:

I think many totally underestimate how bad temperature control gets when you are that exhausted. It can get pretty dangerous pretty fast.

I was wondering if he'd go again, there must be other challenges he wants to do though.

 r0b 24 Aug 2020
In reply to GraB:

From Mike Hartley's account of his triple round which is in the 2nd edition of Mike Cudahy's book "Wild Trails to Far Horizons":

Charlie Ramsay: 21:14

Drive Glen Nevis to Keswick: 4:15

Bob Graham: 23:48 (so almost the same as John!)

Drive Keswick to Capel Curig: 3:25

Paddy Buckley: 33:30

 GraB 24 Aug 2020
In reply to Roadrunner6:

You're totally right. We ran out of spare layers and jackets for him to put on and there were quite a lot of clothes donated to try and keep him warm. I don't know that it would have finished the same way if the weather had been much worse.

Post edited at 17:04

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