UKH

Trying for FKT for the Pennine Way. 
https://live.opentracking.co.uk/johnpennine20/

It's a pretty awesome week for endurance records. 

He's well ahead against schedule at the moment. Weather seems OK, fingers crossed. Hope he doesn't get lost near Barnard Castle.

Mate of mine ran a few miles with him over Blackstone Edge yesterday afternoon. Said he was going really well, of course ‘only’ 30 miles in at that stage.

Yay, more dot-watching. This is the perfect sporting activity for those of us still stuck at the computer all day working from home!

saw the Berkeley Marathons film at our local and John Kelly did a q&a session afterwards which was great. I struggle to comprehend how people do these things. But massive respect and admiration for them. I only just managed to finish the Pennine 39 ultra!

Just passed Barnard Castle

Phew!

Edale to Keld is not bad going for 24 hours!!!

Kim Collinson had 15 mins to spare. If I've got this right the extra summit he put in was Fleetwith Pike (rather than Haycock). Strikes me that including Haycock is the next obvious addition so it wouldn't surprise me if this record didn't last that long.

As a matter of interest, what is the criteria for a peak? I know it's 2000' plus, but is there any minimum prominence or distance separation required?

The rules are here: http://www.bobgrahamclub.org.uk/index.php?page=hour24

Did he have a nap somewhere between PW turning before MIT and Cow Green / Cauldron Snout or did he have a bit of a mare? 

He went from being 50 mins up on his splits to 40 mins down

He had a nap at the PW turn.

I assumed so considering how well he’d been motoring so far. 

A nap! A nap! What a complete slacker 😁

I'd actually wondered whether he was going to try it without sleep since it's "only" missing 2 nights.

He's only 20 minutes behind schedule now at Dufton, so hopefully it was well-calculated.

Interestingly, the criteria for additional summits has been clarified & tightened over the years but not applied retrospectively so that there are many summits in the current record that do not meet the "additional summit" requirements.

Yes, that was the plan, the start time was scheduled as "as soon as possible after I wake up on Monday, so I can minimise the amount of time awake and try and do it without sleep".  

I love that attention to detail, brilliant.

Seems to be struggling to hold the schedule now, 2h20 behind and moving slowly.  He needs to get a rocket up him if he is going to make it by 0320 tonight for the record.

Think you might mean maximize 😁

His schedule shows a finish time of 22:22hrs tonight. If I’ve done my calcs correctly, from the start time the record would be 03:20hrs Thursday morning, so the finish time on his schedule is about 5hrs quicker, so he still has time in hand ..... I think....

But some of those splits look really tough, maybe no problem when fresh but after 200m?

There are a couple that are "only" 30 minutes or so but still got to cover 3 miles on trail.

These long distance speed records are a bit weird in some ways. Overall the average pace is slow, only 4mph or thereabouts. Most of us could do that on trail for a bit. Problem is every minute you're not doing that means you have to go faster on the rest. And you have to keep going and going and going...

That's the bit I find most impressive, these athlete's ability to continually push themselves for such a long time.

What do you reckon the chances are that John will get to 65 with his own knee joints?

Sounds right to me. Looks like he currently has a couple of hours in hand.

We're not far from Greenhead and weather is alright a bit wet but not windy, hopefully he'll do it!

Looks like he just hauled a** from Greenhead to Cawfields as he's made up 1/2 hour and is now just 2.5hrs down on his splits (which are 5hrs up on the record).

I think I get you are trying to say but 4mph isn't slow over mountainous terrain by any means. Most people couldn't do it for very long at all given the need to go up large ascents.

You only need to average about 3mph to do the Bob Graham. The record for the Lakeland 100 is about 5mph and that doesn't go over any tops.

What you said is a bit like saying that the average pace of an elite marathon is slow because we could most of us could manage 100m in under 20 seconds.

To some extent you're right, but the dichotomy is somehow less marked in a marathon. WR pace is about 4:40 miles, which is 17.5s for 100m. Depending on how good a runner you are, you'll be able to keep alongside for typically 400m (I think I'd struggle for 200m at the moment, and obviously decent "club" runners would mange further) before collapsing in a heap.

Whereas these long distance walk/jog/run records, I reckon most of us could hang on for an hour or so - as long as we were fresh 😁. I think the bit that feels a bit weird is the "normalness" of the actual pace required. It's the fact that even with that "normalness", some people can manage some truly impressive feats.

I walked the Yorkshire 3 peaks in exactly 6 hours last year. I suspect I might have managed to get round for a second loop but not in 6 hours. The thought of doing that pace for over 10 loops continuously beggars belief.

Similarly, I walked/jogged the Edale skyline in 4:47 for 20 miles, almost exactly 4mph. Still shattered, joints still aching a bit. Mr Kelly is capable of spending all day at 5mph in the same circumstances - and at 50-odd hours is still stretching out on the downhills. On the flat bits around Howarth he was hitting my 5k pace...

Just been checking this morning's splits - he has gained 10 minutes overall since his kip, and his allowance from Hut 2 to KY is huge - possibly an hour to save there. I think this is in the bag, but hats off to Mike Hartley in 1989 for the current FKT!

I've never moved

It's worth noting that for the BGR the average ascent per mile is well close to 450 feet, for the Pennine Way it is more like 150 feet. I've only dabbled in ultra running and I am far from an elite at any form of running, but managed close to 5mph average on the 47 mile Mary Towneley Loop (Pennine Bridleway) without pushing myself, which has a similar level of ascent per mile as the Pennine Way.

Doing six of those one after the other is a very different prospect, but to illustrate Michael's point, I couldn't run a mile with Kipchoge, a few hours on the Pennine Way record attempt is another matter. The trick is doing it for 60 hours.

6 hours is fast for walking Y3P, I've done similar as a fairly leisurely recce for the race, but we ran as much as we walked. About 50% more climbing on the Y3P per mile compared to the Pennine Way.

I read about average ascent a while ago and use it now as a measure on my runs, training on similar metres ascent per mile as an event I am maybe thinking of doing. And living in Yorkshire, it's extremely useful in my arguments about why I get regularly outpaced by a colleague in Kent who runs......oh, and of course my greater age than him...

In orienteering events 10m ascent is counted as 100m distance when calculating the "length" of a course; descents are ignored.

Mr Kelly seems to have lost more time against the splits; is he struggling? or a couple of quick rests or maybe sorting things out at at B6320 crossing and Byrness. Maybe just exclaiming to his support team "f**k me I'm tired" 🏃🏻‍♂️. Seems to have gone up the hill at reasonable speed after 230 miles.

Yup, last few sections have been slow but he looks to be doing okay on the current section. Will be interesting to see the time he gets to Roman Camp, if he gets there around 21:20 then I reckon he's got a chance, much later then I think he might be slowing too much!

This armchair running is great!

He's just going through Chew Green now (20:15); it's looking exciting!

That's a good effort, I'm currently trying to get fit enough to do it on a bike and if I ever manage it I'd be happy with a time of 9 hours.

Pulled back an hour, I suspect the splits had an hour's shut-eye in Byrness which he's skipped.

He got there at quarter past 8. He’s got it in the bag

Looks like he's motoring now he's on the tops.

I hope so!

He's going to end up doing some of the last leg in the dark, hopefully won't slow him down too much!

I think we are all agreeing really, no point derailing the thread! I was just arguing 4mph is actually quite fast.

Is he running solo, just meeting support team at crossings, or has he got some support runners with him (or has he had at various stages).

I think we can safely say that he's going to miss last orders now.

Isn't KY in Scotland? What are the rules on drinking in pubs there now?!

I think pub beer gardens are open, or so my mum tells me!

I think it’s going to be close!

Yes, it's definitely not a done deal. Less than four hours left; even though he seems to be moving pretty steadily, it looks like he's quite a bit down on his estimated split to Hut 2 and still the Cheviot to deal with. I'm sure he won't be backing off anyway...

Apparently the splits are on a robotic constant effort pace which JK says won't reflect the reality at all.

On the Cheviot, and three hours exactly to get into KY. 

In at 02:44. An incredible achievement, as was Hartley's original time. I wonder if Kelly's will stand for 31 years?!

Fantastic run and great to dot-watch history being made. 

A fabulous time, but I wonder what it would be if he didn't know the route well. I always found navigation on an unrehearsed route would add 25% extra time.

John

So not an on-sight then?

Beta flash. 

I thought the splits looked a bit dodgy, wish I had known this sooner as it was starting to look hopeless towards midnight. Sat up watching 'til he cleared Cheviot then luckily his finishing coincided with my 02:49 pee break - and I could get back to sleep without further worrying!

I think Mike Hartley had the right idea with gettiing Cheviot done early rather than late, especially now that the Derbyshire end is pretty much paved. Even though this (surprisingly) means losing the overall downhill benefit of the route...

It may only last a few days - Damian Hall is doing a North to South attempt next week

That's no good, I'm on leave so will be out walking, not working at the computer and dot-watching!

In his blog/website JK did mention that if he does break MH's record it may be short lived because he's aware of a couple of strong runners doing it later this year than him.

I love the bit where he talks about his attempt last year to do the 3 classic rounds cycling in-between, and how he was overwhelmed by the offers of help/support from the fell/ultra-running community by people who didn't know him.

I don't think he's fully grasped that plenty of people are happy to help and watch evidently crazy people try and do evidently crazy things 😁. From reading stuff about the Berkeley Marathon, it appears there are similarly minded people in the USA.