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Hi.
I have an original Petzl Tikka. A search of the web says it's 26lumens. It has 3 LEDs.
It's 'adequate' for running in the lanes an just about passable for easy running in the woods on trails.
The latest Tikka claims 40lumens.
At what point have people noticed a difference. Should I just step up to the latest model or step up a model.
Alternatively I have a bunch of rechargeable AAA batteries so would be happy to move to something else.
I have an original Petzl Tikka. A search of the web says it's 26lumens. It has 3 LEDs.
It's 'adequate' for running in the lanes an just about passable for easy running in the woods on trails.
The latest Tikka claims 40lumens.
At what point have people noticed a difference. Should I just step up to the latest model or step up a model.
Alternatively I have a bunch of rechargeable AAA batteries so would be happy to move to something else.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
I had a Tikka xp2 and a Petzl Myo (halogen) but soon realised how poor they were and moved on to brighter led lamps. Newer ones tend to have better light output and battery life.
I could barely find myself with 40 lumens, Ive got a few different ones ranging from 130 to 2000 lumens (its almost as bright as my car headlamps put it that way). I quite like running in the dark so often turn them down or off, but when I need light then I wouldnt have anything less than 80 on road or 130 on rough trail (more light = faster and possibly safer). There are lots of cheaper options if money is a factor - Alpkit have a lot of good choices, but then there are plenty of higher prices ones with perhaps more features (im not convinced enough to fork out though but Im tight) such as Silva trail runner etc.
I had a Tikka xp2 and a Petzl Myo (halogen) but soon realised how poor they were and moved on to brighter led lamps. Newer ones tend to have better light output and battery life.
I could barely find myself with 40 lumens, Ive got a few different ones ranging from 130 to 2000 lumens (its almost as bright as my car headlamps put it that way). I quite like running in the dark so often turn them down or off, but when I need light then I wouldnt have anything less than 80 on road or 130 on rough trail (more light = faster and possibly safer). There are lots of cheaper options if money is a factor - Alpkit have a lot of good choices, but then there are plenty of higher prices ones with perhaps more features (im not convinced enough to fork out though but Im tight) such as Silva trail runner etc.
Post edited at 16:56
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In reply to DancingOnRock:
I notice the difference when I'm trying to pick out a route. For just running or walking along you don't need as much.
I tend to keep my head torch on low to save battery then hit the boost button when I want to know where i'm going next. A good bright mode/boost is great for that.
I notice the difference when I'm trying to pick out a route. For just running or walking along you don't need as much.
I tend to keep my head torch on low to save battery then hit the boost button when I want to know where i'm going next. A good bright mode/boost is great for that.
Post edited at 17:01
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In reply to DancingOnRock:
Mine, a rechargeable petzl is 200 lumens, but switches down in ambient light. Great in the woods at night for not falling over, but I suspect a bit annoying for on-coming motorists! The original Tikka was great on a glacier, but I had a few trips running around home.
Mine, a rechargeable petzl is 200 lumens, but switches down in ambient light. Great in the woods at night for not falling over, but I suspect a bit annoying for on-coming motorists! The original Tikka was great on a glacier, but I had a few trips running around home.
Thanks.
I think I'll go for the Actik core.
I think I'll go for the Actik core.
Looks like it's not available until March.
Maybe I'll get something else in the mean time.
Maybe I'll get something else in the mean time.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Reactik+ is available and creeping down in price - no bother with mine so far. Alpkit Qark looks good and compares on a quick car park test. Bulkier at the back but you get the red light - useful on the road.
Reactik+ is available and creeping down in price - no bother with mine so far. Alpkit Qark looks good and compares on a quick car park test. Bulkier at the back but you get the red light - useful on the road.
In reply to DancingOnRock: The headtorch I'd like to go for is a Petzl Reactik (rather than the "+", can't see that I'd want the Bluetooth connectivity to my phone so that I can monitor the battery to the nearest % etc).
However, having just had my old faulty Myo XP replaced with the latest Myo by Lyon/Petzl, I can't justify buying another headtorch.
However, having just had my old faulty Myo XP replaced with the latest Myo by Lyon/Petzl, I can't justify buying another headtorch.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Things have moved on since the days of the original Petzl Tikka etc., and it's no longer necessary to think that you have to buy headtorches only from 'outdoor shops': you can get good (and bright) headtorches for about 10 quid from supermarkets and/or DIY shops. ('Energizer' brand ones seem fine, for example.)
One thing to consider though is how easy they are to operate: e.g. to switch beam mode; to dim; etc. In that respect, things seem perhaps to have gone backwards lately, and gotten a little too fiddly and complicated.
Things have moved on since the days of the original Petzl Tikka etc., and it's no longer necessary to think that you have to buy headtorches only from 'outdoor shops': you can get good (and bright) headtorches for about 10 quid from supermarkets and/or DIY shops. ('Energizer' brand ones seem fine, for example.)
One thing to consider though is how easy they are to operate: e.g. to switch beam mode; to dim; etc. In that respect, things seem perhaps to have gone backwards lately, and gotten a little too fiddly and complicated.
In reply to Rob Parsons:
Yes. I was trying to gauge how many lumens is actually needed. Some of my friends have the Alpkit muon which I didn't think was much better than what I have (albeit it's £12), but I see it is only 34 lumens and 134 lumens is only in spot mode.
I'm going to have a look at the Black Diamond spot later today.
Yes. I was trying to gauge how many lumens is actually needed. Some of my friends have the Alpkit muon which I didn't think was much better than what I have (albeit it's £12), but I see it is only 34 lumens and 134 lumens is only in spot mode.
I'm going to have a look at the Black Diamond spot later today.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
I use a chest torch from Decathlon, white in front and red on the back, rechargeable, great for running. Has different brightness. Much much much prefer it to a head torch and it's cheap.
I use a chest torch from Decathlon, white in front and red on the back, rechargeable, great for running. Has different brightness. Much much much prefer it to a head torch and it's cheap.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
It sounds like almost any new head touch will be a big improvement over what you have at the moment. I'd say you want something closer to 100 lumens min. for a decent and safe level of light when running off road.
For road and off road running, Ive used a Alpkit Gamma , Alpkit Viper and a Silva Trail Runner 2.
The Gamma (original model) was about 80 lumens I think, ok for road running but struggled to pick out details when off road. Most recent one finally died after several winter of wet weather use, had at least one previous to that which I lost. Most comfortable torch Ive used for running and felt really balanced on the head (strap over top of head and battery pack at the back seem to be ideal for this). Also had red flashing led on rear battery pack, so great for being seen on the road.
The Viper Ive still got and is a good all round torch, at 125 lumens I think brighter than the gamma but struggles at speed on round ground as most of the light seems to be a focused spot. Also feels a bit 'floppy' as all the weight is at the front and it has a hinged design to angle the light down, also a single strap. Better as a general torch than a running one.
The trail runner is brighter still (160 I think), very good spread of light and solidly built. Reasonably comfortable, but the battery pack feels a bit bulky. Battery life of the rechargeable pack seems to be very good. Also the most expensive but not silly money (45 - 50 quid).
If I was buying one today I'd be tempted to go for another Gamma (new ones are 150 lumens) as they are cheap (21 quid), reasonable bright, well balanced on head and build quality is ok.
It sounds like almost any new head touch will be a big improvement over what you have at the moment. I'd say you want something closer to 100 lumens min. for a decent and safe level of light when running off road.
For road and off road running, Ive used a Alpkit Gamma , Alpkit Viper and a Silva Trail Runner 2.
The Gamma (original model) was about 80 lumens I think, ok for road running but struggled to pick out details when off road. Most recent one finally died after several winter of wet weather use, had at least one previous to that which I lost. Most comfortable torch Ive used for running and felt really balanced on the head (strap over top of head and battery pack at the back seem to be ideal for this). Also had red flashing led on rear battery pack, so great for being seen on the road.
The Viper Ive still got and is a good all round torch, at 125 lumens I think brighter than the gamma but struggles at speed on round ground as most of the light seems to be a focused spot. Also feels a bit 'floppy' as all the weight is at the front and it has a hinged design to angle the light down, also a single strap. Better as a general torch than a running one.
The trail runner is brighter still (160 I think), very good spread of light and solidly built. Reasonably comfortable, but the battery pack feels a bit bulky. Battery life of the rechargeable pack seems to be very good. Also the most expensive but not silly money (45 - 50 quid).
If I was buying one today I'd be tempted to go for another Gamma (new ones are 150 lumens) as they are cheap (21 quid), reasonable bright, well balanced on head and build quality is ok.
Post edited at 13:12
In reply to Phil79:
Thanks. Seems like the Gamma shouldn't be used with rechargeable batteries. Seems a shame other than that it looks like a brilliant choice.
Thanks. Seems like the Gamma shouldn't be used with rechargeable batteries. Seems a shame other than that it looks like a brilliant choice.
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In reply to stubbed:
Thanks. I saw a guy at our club run last night wearing something similar I'll try and investigate.
Thanks. I saw a guy at our club run last night wearing something similar I'll try and investigate.
In reply to stubbed:
I'm tempted to give one of those a try.
How bright are they?
Ok for running (mostly rather slowly in my case) on trails through the woods etc.? I rarely venture away from routes I know very well in the dark, so navigation isn't an issue.
I'm tempted to give one of those a try.
How bright are they?
Ok for running (mostly rather slowly in my case) on trails through the woods etc.? I rarely venture away from routes I know very well in the dark, so navigation isn't an issue.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
I use a Silva headtorch for trail running which is ok at 120 lumens but I wouldn't want any less. My road bike front light is 640 lumens and although I've only used it on the road I think it could go pretty fast off road and see enough too. Occasionally I'll put the bike light in my pack if I'm out in the dark and looking for a specific feature e.g. winter route after dark (not yet this winter though).
I use a Silva headtorch for trail running which is ok at 120 lumens but I wouldn't want any less. My road bike front light is 640 lumens and although I've only used it on the road I think it could go pretty fast off road and see enough too. Occasionally I'll put the bike light in my pack if I'm out in the dark and looking for a specific feature e.g. winter route after dark (not yet this winter though).
In reply to deepsoup:
It says up to 250 lumens on highest setting, but I used it on a night time trail race through a forest and I was fine. I got lots of compliments from the proper fell runners there too.
I do like running in the dark though.
It's called Kalenji run light. Better than a sweaty head torch.
It says up to 250 lumens on highest setting, but I used it on a night time trail race through a forest and I was fine. I got lots of compliments from the proper fell runners there too.
I do like running in the dark though.
It's called Kalenji run light. Better than a sweaty head torch.
In reply to stubbed:
Cool, thanks. I think I will give it a try then.
My problem with a head torch for running is that I can't see a thing with it if it's misty or cold. The beam goes through the fog right in front of my eyes and dazzles me and the brighter the beam the worse it is.
Cool, thanks. I think I will give it a try then.
My problem with a head torch for running is that I can't see a thing with it if it's misty or cold. The beam goes through the fog right in front of my eyes and dazzles me and the brighter the beam the worse it is.
In reply to deepsoup:
This is definitely an issue with head torches, I usually hold mine in hand when its foggy. In fact a 'less bright' torch is useful when it is foggy as there is considerable less reflection.
> My problem with a head torch for running is that I can't see a thing with it if it's misty or cold. The beam goes through the fog right in front of my eyes and dazzles me and the brighter the beam the worse it is.
This is definitely an issue with head torches, I usually hold mine in hand when its foggy. In fact a 'less bright' torch is useful when it is foggy as there is considerable less reflection.
In reply to Phil79:
I'm a sweaty mess when I run, so for me it's always foggy if it's properly cold - I generate huge clouds of steam!
I'm a sweaty mess when I run, so for me it's always foggy if it's properly cold - I generate huge clouds of steam!
In reply to deepsoup:
Yes. That's always a disadvantage with head torches. You breath out clouds of vapour that block everything out in a dazzling bright white cloud.
Yes. That's always a disadvantage with head torches. You breath out clouds of vapour that block everything out in a dazzling bright white cloud.
I've ordered the Black Diamond spot £30 which is continuously variable from 5-200lumens so I can adjust it down for road/lane running and up for the off road sections. I'll report back when it arrives.
Thanks for everyone's help.
Thanks for everyone's help.
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In reply to deepsoup:
I take mine off and run with it in hand when its like that. Just a couple of feet lower is often enough to shine under the mist.
I take mine off and run with it in hand when its like that. Just a couple of feet lower is often enough to shine under the mist.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
http://www.trailrunningmag.co.uk has a review at present on head torches for winter - not read it yet!
http://www.trailrunningmag.co.uk has a review at present on head torches for winter - not read it yet!
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Actik is avaliable got one from up and under in Cardiff last night. Lovely torch. They didn't have the core battery in stock at the time so maybe that's coming out in March.
Actik is avaliable got one from up and under in Cardiff last night. Lovely torch. They didn't have the core battery in stock at the time so maybe that's coming out in March.
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In reply to rztipping:
They're slightly different. The core is just a AAA battery pack that has a recharging unit built in so you can charge it via USB. It can be used in any of their torches.
The Actik Core will be 350lm where the Actik is 300lm. I can't work out whether the Actik Core has a charging port on the outside or not.
They're slightly different. The core is just a AAA battery pack that has a recharging unit built in so you can charge it via USB. It can be used in any of their torches.
The Actik Core will be 350lm where the Actik is 300lm. I can't work out whether the Actik Core has a charging port on the outside or not.
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Also, the ratio of brightness is not 350:300; you need to quadruple the number of lumens to double the brightness [lumens is basically a measure of how many photons the lamp throws out, brightness is the number of lumens over an area "perpendicular" to the light source, measured in lux = lumens/(m*m)]. So the ratio for those two would be sqrt(350:300); i.e. ~1.08 - an 8% increase (rather than 16.67%).
> It can be used in any of their torches.
Unfortunately not - only the Tikka/Zipka/Tikkina/Actik type stuff and not some of the older models. It's not suitable for my Myo although I'm waiting for a response from Petzl on whether there's any plans to do an AA version of the Core battery or some kind of spacer/adaptor.> The Actik Core will be 350lm where the Actik is 300lm. I can't work out whether the Actik Core has a charging port on the outside or not.
From the pictures I've seen it looks like you have to open the case to get to the micro-USB port on the Core battery. I suspect the 350lm rather than 300lm is purely to do with current/voltage (no idea which) regulation but that will mean a slightly shorter burn time.Also, the ratio of brightness is not 350:300; you need to quadruple the number of lumens to double the brightness [lumens is basically a measure of how many photons the lamp throws out, brightness is the number of lumens over an area "perpendicular" to the light source, measured in lux = lumens/(m*m)]. So the ratio for those two would be sqrt(350:300); i.e. ~1.08 - an 8% increase (rather than 16.67%).
Post edited at 12:42
In reply to Michael Hood:
That's very interesting regards brightness.
The Black Diamond arrived the next day but has stayed in the pack until last night.
It's very good compared to the 26lm? Petzl, the 40lm flood mode lights up the area in front well enough to cover the whole width of the road and bright enough to see exactly what's going on. In particular I noticed that car drivers were being a lot more cautious on their approach (well, apart from the usual suspects).
The headband is easily adjustable with gloves on as you just pull the two clips away from each other to tighten. Really clever.
I haven't tried it in spotlight mode out on the trails yet but I think it looks like it's going to be a massive improvement. 26-200 is certainly not even a squaring of the output but even 40lm flood feels like 3-4x the brightness.
That's very interesting regards brightness.
The Black Diamond arrived the next day but has stayed in the pack until last night.
It's very good compared to the 26lm? Petzl, the 40lm flood mode lights up the area in front well enough to cover the whole width of the road and bright enough to see exactly what's going on. In particular I noticed that car drivers were being a lot more cautious on their approach (well, apart from the usual suspects).
The headband is easily adjustable with gloves on as you just pull the two clips away from each other to tighten. Really clever.
I haven't tried it in spotlight mode out on the trails yet but I think it looks like it's going to be a massive improvement. 26-200 is certainly not even a squaring of the output but even 40lm flood feels like 3-4x the brightness.
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