Grand tour of skiddaw

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 Levy_danny 13 Jul 2022

Hi all, 

has anyone done this before? Any hints or tips? it’s my first ultra, have ran a few marathons before including Y3P and training is going pretty well. Haven’t done any huge runs but plan to do a 30 miler at some point over the next few weeks.

What are the trails like? I was hoping to maybe wear my hoka speed goats but don’t like wearing them on too technical ground.

Any tips on bridging the gap between the marathon and the ultra? what are the checkpoints like? Is there a good variety of food or do I need to be carrying loads?

thanks

Dan

 SouthernSteve 13 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

The route is very pleasant. The first part is quite flat and a bit narrow with overtaking awkward early on. From Caldbeck the path goes up onto open moor - quite steep on good paths. I was very slow on the descent from the Grainsgill Beck as it was wet and slippy and there is steep gritty/slippy path from Skiddaw down to Carlisle Tarn where a little care is needed. But this is not a technical route, but not as wide clear trails as say the Lakeland Trails 55 (but softer on the feet).

As its quite a small race you might not get as much motivation from other people as in some busier events, but the organisation is very good and the pre and post race atmosphere at the school is good. Food is good, do need a fair amount of water between Caldbeck and Lattrigg checkpoint.

 Lhod 13 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

Nice one, good luck! I don't know this particular race but have done a few hilly ultras. In terms of building endurance, one of the things I found the most effective was doing a long run (usually Saturday) then going out again on Sunday and just spending time running. So any pace, any distance, just plod for a couple of hours on tired legs. You're never going to do a training run more than about 30 miles so it helps bridge the gap to to your race distance.

The other thing is to get the nutrition right, you can get away with it on a marathon but not really on an ultra. Learn what works for you and keep feeding on the go. 

If you've done the training and get the fuelling right then I don't think there's much difference from a marathon in terms of approach and tactics.

 SouthernSteve 13 Jul 2022
In reply to Lhod:

I agree. I would add practice downhills, many people including myself (although better these days) are slow on moderately steep downhills when really there should be some advantage. You might get some benefit from poles in this type of race.

 Nic Barber 13 Jul 2022
In reply to SouthernSteve:

Training the downhills at long/ultra race pace mid-long run will also help condition the legs so you (hopefully) don't go all jelly legged on the next climb!

Just don't go harder in the race than you're used to downhill, or you will go jelly legged!

OP Levy_danny 13 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

Thanks for all the help so far I really appreciate it. Race pace was another thing I’ve been wondering. My flat marathon was 3.20ish. 3 peaks 5ish hours and saddleworth 10 res marathon 5 hours 30 all this year. I have no idea what sort of pace to aim for. My ultimate goal is just to finish it but my goal would be I suppose sub 12. Any tips on what to go for? I’m conscious of feeling good for the first half and going too quick and then dying and hanging on for the rest. 

 Herdwickmatt 13 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

David Roche is always worth a read https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/trail-tips-training/4-science-drive...

I think the takeaway from when I've read some of his other stuff is try to get a few training sessions running the downhills with "purpose". I'm sure I read/heard that even a session once every 3weeks makes a big difference, which is good news for those of us who don't have immediate access to hills.

 Michael Hood 13 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

From the webpage...

The Grand Tour of Skiddaw is an approximately 44 mile fully waymarked 

I hope that they properly clear up whatever waymarking method is being used - we don't need loads of those silly little flags left lying around.

But good luck with the event, seems like a long way just to go up Skiddaw 😁

Post edited at 21:16
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 Tom Briggs 13 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

70k with 2175m of climb is pretty flat. Given your paces at other things I would’ve thought you could easily average 8 min km? Sub 9 hours?

OP Levy_danny 14 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

That’s kind of the ball park I was thinking maybe with a few stops for food etc I could then squeeze in under 10 which I’d be really chuffed with. 
 

with regards to downhill running I do quite a lot of fell races and am quite good at moderate downhill running but running rubbish at anything steep. I got overtaken by a few people on a very short section of steeper rough ground at bamford yesterday. 
 

OP Levy_danny 14 Jul 2022
In reply to Michael Hood:

I’ve never been up skiddaw do I suppose it is haha. The ascent is half way so quite a bit of running first.

with regards to the flags it’s been going a while with no complaints so must be doing it right. 

 Michael Hood 14 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

> I’ve never been up skiddaw do I suppose it is haha. The ascent is half way so quite a bit of running first.

Hope the weather is good so that you can enjoy the views - worth stopping for a minute's rest at the south end of the summit ridge (or on the descent whenever the ground slopes away to the south) to appreciate the view across Derwent Water to the southern fells - couple of minutes of that isn't going to put much of a dent in a sub 10 hour run.

> with regards to the flags it’s been going a while with no complaints so must be doing it right. 

That's good to hear. Hope you enjoy it - if my legs were 20 years younger I'd be thinking about ultras in the hills myself.

 Herdwickmatt 14 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

That's good, just remember it's not a fell race and descend accordingly! You want to protect those quads! Enjoy it!

OP Levy_danny 14 Jul 2022
In reply to Herdwickmatt:

Cheers mate, by descend accordingly do you mean take the foot right off the gas and slow down? I’ll be 100% walking any steep bits coming off skiddaw (if there are any should probably do a reccie but my summer is pretty booked up) for that very reason. 

 SouthernSteve 30 Jul 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

Gaynor Prior is giving the race up, might not happen again or be the same. Book whilst you can!

OP Levy_danny 01 Aug 2022
In reply to SouthernSteve:

I'm booked on, did a 50km walk/ run last week and didn't  feel too bad and think had another 20km in my legs so really excited about this now. Learnt a few valuable lessons so really glad to have got it in before such as drink way more and eat more even towards the end. 

For anyone who has done it are the checkpoints well stocked with food and drinks and is the navigation pretty straightforward? 

 SouthernSteve 01 Aug 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

Navigation is not at all difficult, you do need to look at the map a little as you come to the very end of the descent from Ling How coming off Unlock Pike and the path through the farm at Barkbeth does not go through the farm but follows the wall to the south and then traverses above the river (clear path under overhanging trees) before joining the path on the track out of the farm. 

Of course you need to look out for the Orthwaite buzzard!

The food is good and the marshalls are a good mob.

I bailed last year late on as I was shattered and not enjoying it by myself. Grabbed the possibility of doing it in a really busy time at work and I shouldn't. My wife has completed in the past and we love the area - have fun.

 SouthernSteve 28 Aug 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

How did it go? Hope you had fun. 

OP Levy_danny 29 Aug 2022
In reply to SouthernSteve:

Great event and I’ll be back for sure, I found it too hot really and struggled much more than my training run and crampy twinges started from about 20 miles in haha. Had to walk a fair bit or runnable trail between checkpoint 3 and 4 as cramps would just start up in various leg muscles and resided to having to pretty much fast hike it all the way back. Someone gave me some salt tablets and the last checkpoint in Calbeck and that helped me managed my cramp enough to run it home from there and my time was just over 11 hours but the route ending up being closer to 46 miles. Such a lovely little event and awesome route. Usually I’d have signed up to my next race by now but still processing this one a bit and going to think carefully about which one to do next but I’m thinking I’ll probably get in the ballot for the lakes 50. 

 SouthernSteve 29 Aug 2022
In reply to Levy_danny:

Good to hear. It was warm!. It has been taken on by another race director / organisation so I might see you there another year.


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