UKH

For thoose that run and climb,  how you find the balance will running and climbing enough to scratch both  itches but  make progress  in both disciplines. 

At the moment my plan I'm working on  is:

Monday: rest

Tuesday: run

Wednesday: bouldering.

Thursday   rest

Friday : rest

Saturday:  run

Sunday bouldering. 

I would like to get myself to:

20 min 5km 

40 min 10km 

Maybe build myself back up to half marathons but I know that will meaning getting out running 3 days a week which I think  will then counter productive  to and bouldering strength  gains.

To be honest for the best improvements I think you have to pick which discipline you really want to push. 

Currently I am after running so I am running 5 times a week and just climbing once a week for maintenence. 

When I have my race out of the way I am going to go on a climbing phase and climb 3 - 4 times a week and just run twice a week for some maintenence.

Lee

You should be able to exercise every day, particularly if you are working different areas. You certainly need to be running more to see significant improvement.

Tend to agree with Climbthatpitch that you can only meaningfully progress one at a time, though interested to hear otherwise. Especially if working fulltime, so can’t sleep during the day etc.

 I currently run twice a week as recovery from climbing/fingerboarding the day before, and am prioritising fingerstrength and bouldering. When I did a HM I was running 4-5 times a week with only a maintenance trip to the wall each week.

I think you could usefully add an easy running day into your schedule. I’d have thought an easy run, a long run, and a speed based session the minimum for steady running progress at the sort of level you’re talking about (40’ 10k).

My trick has been to do very little of either for a year, and thus I am starting from a very low level in both which means easy progress!

I find that climbing affects subsequent runs less than the reverse, so I can do a bouldering session on a Tuesday evening followed by a run in my Wednesday lunch break. With this pattern you get two days' exercise for each rest day.

40min 10km is definitely possible off two runs a week, but they need to both be good sessions. The obvious suggestion would be a speed session (i.e. intervals or tempo run) and an aerobic run (classically intended race time + 25%) per week. I'm not a believer in short recovery runs, but you will need to be careful to always warm up/down properly, especially with speed work.

If you want more volume then I would suggest structuring your running to alternate between easy and hard weeks, perhaps with more climbing during the easy week. As ever you would need to pay attention to your body and be honest about whether you can sustain a given training level.

Running 2 days a week is not enough to notice improvement. Personally I’d aim for at least 3 days, one of which should be speed work (or hill work) and another a long run. If you’re looking to get faster / set PBs, speed work will be needed. A bit of strength training is worthwhile too. I don’t know what level you currently run at, but sub-20 5k/ sub-40 10k involves quite a bit of focused effort for most people. Obviously, if you're already close to these times then you're on your way. 

One way to do both is to have two sessions on some days, e.g. run in the morning and climb in the evening. Try to avoid having a hard bouldering session and a speed/hill session too close together.

I struggle to find this balance too. In the last year, I have tried splitting my year and focusing on one at a time whilst maintaining the other, which I think has worked quite well. It is possible to do both at the same time, but I don’t think you can push your limits in either. I guess it depends what you want and how much time and effort you’re willing/able to put in, plus your personal physical limits. I find that running helps climbing, but not so much the other way round.

In terms of structuring the year, I found a couple of spring races and focused on those for a set period, running 4-5 days per week, whilst maintaining climbing 1-2 days per week (over winter when the rock is often wet and the days short). I might add that these races were not particularly long or arduous (c. 10 miles on moderately hilly terrain). I found it useful to have a set time period to work with as it focused my attention. After the races, I switched back to a climbing focus whilst running 3 days per week. This split is largely because I struggle to maintain higher running mileage in the summer because I’m out cragging at the weekends and any focused ‘training’ is interspersed by climbing trips.

At the time it was winter and for some of it I was preparing for a race and a sport climbing trip simultaneously. I got my hilly long run in early on a Sunday morning and then spent the afternoon at the climbing wall. I also did some hill reps once per week, 2 easy runs, one other climbing session and a few yoga sessions. Again, I wasn’t doing huge mileage (up to 30 miles per week), but I found that it was sustainable.

Thanks  for the input. I tend to prefer my running and it tends to work out  bit cheaper and far easier to plan in as I can just get up at 5 in morning and go out so  I'll have a look at getting the extra session in and not make as good progress on the wall.

At the moment  I'm at 25min 5km and 48min 10km  so I have a  bit knock off for my goals. 

Running gains are there for the taking. You'll pick up pace by running 3-4 days, especially if you've never been run fit before. Why are you resting so much?

Get some steady mileage in after your bouldering days - why wouldn't you? Also your 10k is faster than your 5k, which suggests you're not trying hard enough/new to it all ...easy gains again

That is quite a big increment you’re aiming at. I’d suggest 22’ 5k and/or 45’ 10k as a nice intermediate target. Note too that a 20’ 5k is a fair bit easier than a 40’ 10k, you’ll need to be almost a 19’ 5k runner to get the 10k target.

Given how big the increment is, you might consider a two phase approach, firstly building your running base by gradually upping your weekly mileage (read up on Lydiard ...) as well as your long run’s distance without any speed work, then for phase two add in speed work and take the mileage down a notch. Then have a crack at a couple of races.

You might need a couple of training cycles to get your goal, I went from 48’ to 45’ 10k in a training cycle of a few months. Then destroyed myself (plantar fasciitis) running an over-ambitious pace in a half, and haven’t been able to run consistently since ...

 I got my myself up to a couple of half marathons   ( was training for Brighton marathon) about a year or so ago  and really messed up  itb. Hence why I give myself so much rest now  days. But I think that was more  too much too soon as I wasnt really following a program. 

I hadn't really thought about running and  boulderings. (I cant really stop going twice as I go with my mum once a week and another group of  freind on another day. ) Wouldn't have though body  would have enough time to repair its self. I  struggle with pacing on 5k, I gas myself in the 1st mile hence why 10km is a bit quicker.

Agree with this. Are you pacing the 5k as you would the 10k? Maybe just go for it a bit more on the 5, see if you shave a bit off that way and then at least you know where you stand a bit more vis a vis actual physical gains over psychological/tactical gains.

Also, where are you at with your bouldering and where do you want to be? If you're a beginner (I have no idea) you’ll find you’ll progress just by getting a bit of mileage, as opposed to say trying to go from V4 to V6 say, which will take a bit more effort.

Maybe concentrate on strength with the bouldering (it is bouldering after all) and avoid circuits and stuff if running is your priority? 

My 5K is 20:45 and my 10K is 43:40 or thereabouts. I’ve got this down from a 47 min 10K after picking up running 2 years ago. I’m a girl so these are competitive club times (I usually pick up a couple of parkrun first females a year)

I’ve had to sacrifice quite a lot of bouldering strength for this - my shoulders are definiey less strong. I climb very differently as well! I’ve managed to keep climbing around V5 indoors but I’m no where near as good as a once was. 

I do around 30-40 miles per week and 2-3 climbing sessions. I sometimes have to run/climb on same days - sometimes I run 5 miles to the wall with my backpack on (only shows and chalk and change or top, no rope!)

I have to cut down on one or the other on weeks where I’m going outdoors climbing or have a race.

Schedule -

Mon - 4 miles easy at lunch/bouldering pm if not tired

Tues - intervals (5 miles inc warm up/ down)

Wed - bouldering pm

Thurs - tempo or long run depending on weekend (8/13 miles)

Fri - 4 miles easy/ bouldering pm 

Sat - parkrun or intervals (7 miles) , occasionally climb outside 

Sun - long run (13 miles if not done in week) & routes indoors OR climbing outside

My key running sessions are Tues and Thurs with my running club and key climbing sessions are Fri and Sunday. Other runs and climbs are just easy as I feel (eg I may only Boulder V2 problems or run 9:30 min/miles)

Obviously I’m not massively rested for climbing sessions but tbh I find this mirrors actual climbing better since there are often long walk ins with heavy bag.

Yeah... I definitely  couldnt be running like that.   Maybe it time to reassess  the goals..

Maybe that 22min 5km and 45mi 10km is a bit more realistic. With a  cross over day which is  doable on a sunday or tuesday 

I tend to run approx 5 hours a week and climb approx 4 hours a week. 8 sessions in total (4 - 5 running, 3 - 4 climbing).

I squeeze in the aerobic running with running to work and at lunch time.

It seems I climb less and less each year, but still maintain a relatively decent level - though most of my climbing is 'training'!

I've tried splitting the year up and for me I think that's the key. I will focus on running through the winter and into the spring, with a key race in May/June. Then switch to climbing emphasis in July through to October. November/December I'll start to build up the running base again. It means I avoid climbing indoors too much in the winter, given a lot of my mid-week climbing is indoors anyway.

I can run after climbing, but I never run before an outdoor climbing session and at the most will run to work. I find it really affects my climbing performance.

I'm really interested in other people's ideas of how they find a balance. I've found having two interests instead of one to be really beneficial when dealing with the UK weather and I've been injured less.

Agreed that the targets are a bit ambitious (nothing wrong with that!) and you will have no problems hitting 20' 5k if you can run 10k in 40' (I mean... maths!). I have run a hilly-ish 5k in 20:12 and my 10k is 41:23, but then I have been running 50 mile weeks for last few months as part of marathon training, so neither speed nor those races were of highest priority - 20 miler and a speed workout within last 7 days is not a proper taper . 

I am sure you would knock off minutes easily with just easy running. It takes time to get used to the "easy pace" (especially after a break), but basically it's a pace you can sustain for a long time and you could hold a conversation while running. It really is a base of most training plans and then you have a long run and speed workout which is usually some sort of interval based training (longer tempo efforts are more beneficial for longer distances). I would suggest looking up a plan and trying to stick to it as it helps you with discipline. It's easy to do too little or too much, from my own experience. Consistency is the key either way. 

No one recommended Training for the New Alpinism by Steve House/Scott Johnston which would be a good introduction and I believe the book fits in climbing sessions. It's been my most favourite book as it really goes into detail and explains why and how. I no longer rock climb, so I am more towards aerobic side of things (opposed technique or strength). 

How old are you?

Most people have to train fairly hard to run a sub 40 10k, some will never achieve it. Anyone running it off two runs a week is capable of running quite a bit quicker, which put them in the top few thousand runners in the country.

26

In that case you should recover quickly and be able to cross train maybe six days a week, certainly five.

I was doing both in my mid fifties. Some days doing short runs (3-4) miles and then going to the bouldering wall. What you need to do is ensure you are rested before a "proper" day's climbing or a real run. That may be two or three days of rest from either the climbing or the running depending upon what it is you're doing.

Listen to your body though. Not just your muscles but also your energy levels. Sometimes you just need a rest and when your body tells you that, take it's advice.

Well I'll start  with just running the day extra on the morning before bouldering s d take it from there

Seems sensible. You're doing enough to push pretty close to your 'easy' potential I'd think. Getting the last 10(20?)% of improvement in most things really does require disproportionate quantities of effort.

Its an exceedingly legitimate response to have no interest in pursuing one thing that much.

If you ever do want to push limits in one or the other, then maybe best to really do it properly - say give it 6-12 months purposefully lopsided effort.

You can boulder and run..

I'd avoid had runs/hard climbs but a boulder and then a 3-4 mile run would be nothing.

To improve as a runner you need to run more than twice a week, well 95% of runners do.

As said just run early, I run at 6:15 am most days. 3 days a week of rest is a crazy amount.

I'm a 39 year old, have a three year old daughter, work full time, married to an MD and coach in the evenings and have 1-2 days off a month.. mainly because of doing some big day out than just training. At the weekend I did a 36 mile, 13000 feet of ascent mountain loop, so took yesterday off. 

Typically a rest day is just a easy run. They shouldn't hurt at all.

Nice thread with an interesting range of responses!

My current schedule is roughly:

M: rest

T: fingerboard

W: wall, mainly bouldering (projecting at in-a-session grades). Wrapping up with volume bouldering (eg 6x6 easy probs) and/or ARC on autobelay

T: run (talk test pace, c 5k)

F: fingerboard

S: outdoor climb, failing that indoors

S: run (as Thu)

I’m prioritising finger strength, have limited time due to 2 small kids and work, and am also easing back into the running. I’m pretty happy with how the above is working.

One thing people haven’t said is that adapting to a big training volume (not mine necessarily, but some of those posted above) takes time, and should be built into gradually, both over numbers of weeks (current training cycle if you like), and also from one year to the next.

Early on in a training cycle (I’m not that formal, but you know when you’re “getting back into it”) I find it helpful to start with more rest days for a couple of weeks, then when I feel I’m recovering well add in an extra days training while not really upping the session intensity.

Another element that has been an issue for me in the past, requiring many rest days, is over-reaching in training sessions. By this I mean behaviours like beasting myself at the wall for 3hrs plus until I can barely do the warmup traverse, or running each run at race pace trying for a PR on that route. It is much better to stop somewhat fresh so you’re ready to train again tomorrow, especially when building up the number of days “on”. Of course you have to experiment to establish what’s right, but my current thinking is that if I have to skip a days training from the schedule then I overdid it.

I found it hard to balance climbing and running seriously. 

I was training for a Spring Marathon this year, thankfully this winter climbing season was pants that I could go running as my back up plan!!!

I'm taking part in Dublin Marathon this Oct and then taking a year off and focusing on my climbing for a year

Cheers

Euge

I honestly thing you can keep improving the running with a bit of extra efffort without impacting your climbing. You’re nowhere what your body can handle training wise ...you’re 25 for goodness sake. Build up slowly but cast off the blinkers.

He probably can, the question is if he should/would enjoy it. Only his to answer of course

I do have to take slight issue with a few of the statements about training volume here - you obviously get a massive and fast improvement going from 0 runs/week to 1 run/week as witness beginners. Then a smaller but real one from 1 to 2, ditto 2 to 3 and so on.

The same as with nearly every activity of course.

It's a bit more nuanced than that isn't it? If you have a climbing/mountaineering background and get into running, you might find you don't improve that much by only running a couple of times a week as you're already reasonably fit. That was the case for me. It's only since running 4 times a week that I've started to see significant improvements and even these are relatively small compared to what some people seem to achieve. 

One thing I have found is since absorbing myself in running training literature, I have a fresh perspective on how to train for climbing. This has been good since I've been doing the same sort of climbing training for the past 25 years. For example, even if you're mainly bouldering I think it's beneficial to have a good aerobic (routes climbing) base. It improves your session fitness and can aid recovery.

I think it is very difficult to be improving at both climbing and running at the same time 

Mostly due to trying to fit adequate rest periods in between each discipline whilst still getting in the required amount of training to improve

Yes you can boulder before a run and the effect on the run part is less than the other way around (for me it is pointless climbing after a run) but it still does effect it in a negative way

If I didn't work or socialise etc and only trained then maybe it could work but it certainly hasn't in the last ten years when I have tried it several times

I am 47 and when I was 30 I managed to mix squash and running quite well but I find if I am even a few percent wrong physically my climbing session is normally poor

 Thanks for the  advice. I will stick with my 3 runs and 2 boulder sessions. My bouldering will more  stamina  based to aid my running.. I just have to accept that they are quite different  goals and quite  different outcomes.