UKH

What are the trainers of choice for those running the ridge these days? I seem to remember tales of Andy Hyslop getting his Walshes re-soled with 5.10 spot rubber! I’m assuming that there are shoes made these days that are suited to the job? But I have got an old pair of Walshes ready for re-sole!

In reply to Joint:

I’m fairly certain there isn’t anything made with that in mind. Climbing rubber would wear down too fast on a running shoe.

I’d suggest a worn down pair of X-talon 212s from Inov8, they don’t have much drop, not much padding anywhere and are a snug precision fit. The rubber is good on rock.

What’s your plans? Running the ridge including the climbs solo is something only very few could safely do, most of those very few would know about suitable shoes already.

In reply to Joint:  I haven't done it but for similar I've got a pair of Salomon X-Alp pro (long name). Salomon , Inov-8, make popular items , Sporitva don't know and there's supposed to be a new Scarpa Ribelle Run

I think the record was set in a pair of Salomon X-Alp carbons (?).  I like mine for scrambling, not running.

I never got on with Walshes.  I guess whatever you choose you need a snug fit for climbing, but not too snug

In reply to Joint:

Hopefully this isn’t hijacking but I was going to ask the exact same question but for the Snowdon Horseshoe... I know it’s only scrambling but probably needs a similar shoe? 

I bought some Brooks Cascadia which I intend to use, they had decent grip when I scrambled around Black Rocks with them but I think that’s a completely different type of rock.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Anything that you are comfortable in, but to to me Brooks Cascadia are too chunky, i would use a La Sportiva Mutant or something similar.

In reply to Joint:

Going back a decade I used five tens, but they've since gone a bit industrial/ urban and might not be so comfortable running in. It's a compromise whatever ever you pick, as a shoe will lean towards the climbing or running, I went for traction, as I felt that for much of it you aren't running in the true sense, more or a trot in my case, but I wasn't threatening the record, just out for a long solo. I've been tempted by some of the Adidas terrex shoes recently, same company now, but looks like Adidas shoes are more running, 5 10 urban/ mtb etc.  

Main thing is break them in and do a few rock routes in them first to get a feel for their limitations. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

Why not just your normal walking boots? Just more of a slight effort to run in them, but then that's an exercise before you go on to the Cuillin ridge. 

Another route option, which I have considered is doing a route on Lliweydd (spelling?), and then following round the horseshoe. 

In reply to veteye:

My normal walking boots are a bit out of action at the minute because I have some leather scarpa ones but they've always hurt my toes, I took the laces out and compared them to my really old boots from Millets and realised that the Scarpa's are too narrow for me so I've decided I won't wear them again (anyone want to buy a pair of Scarpa's haha!)

I've done the Snowdon Horseshoe three times already but always with others and never had the opportunity to run it, I've always wanted to go and have a go at it (relatively) flat out, hence why wanted to try it in trail shoes. I don't fancy the idea of running in any walking boots tbh!

In reply to wbo2:

I seem to remember someone saying Fin set the record in a pair of worn-down walshes.

In reply to Nic Barber:

In the video of him preparing at the top of Gars-bheinn it does look like a pair of Walshes he's putting on - see from 1m45ish:
youtube.com/watch?v=7o_QIvb-8zo&

In reply to Nic Barber:

I've never heard of Walshes until now. I just looked them up and they are so inexpensive compared to the brands I normally hear about! They look very basic but also quite compact and precise! I'm half tempted to try a pair out but worried I'd smash my ankles up or something!

In reply to elliot.baker:

They used to be all the rage. My running days are long gone (not that I was ever any good), but for years now I've worn hill running shoes for normal non-winter hillgoing - Munros etc. For a few years I wore Walshes for this and liked them, but they did feel quite thin-soled and eventually I got a dose of plantar fasciitis which I reckoned was connected with wearing them on a lot of rocky ground and stony tracks, so I switched to Inov-8 Mudclaws and have been fine footwise ever since. The Walshes were very robust in terms of general build however - they'd wear out of course but they wouldn't fall apart - I still rather miss them.

In reply to Joint:

Finlay set the summer fkt in walshes and what was the winter fkt in x Alp boots.

Walshes are out and out the best shoes I've worn for grip on rock...wet, dry or green. Enough stud for mud and grass too. The sole wears fast but only to be expected with that level of grip. Also really precise feeling for scrambling.  

Arcteryx norvan SL are pretty close for scrambling but lugs are rubbish on mud or loose dusty bits.

VJ irock3 are amazing grip too and have decent studs. Narrow tho. The other models are apparently not as narrow and may be better for the ridge as the studs aren't quite as aggressive I think.

Hope this helps.

P

In reply to Pipecleaner:

the best grip on rock by far for running shoes is provided by La Sportiva Mutants.  They also last extremely well and are very comfortable. Not great for proper climbing like all running shoes where small footholds are used but superb for smearing, larger holds.

In reply to Joint:

As an historical note, the answer is my 1983 model Walsh Raids. Off to do the ridge for the first time , Andy borrowed my Raids, they came back battered but still useable. The sole had plenty of life left just a few tears in the lightweight upper. The upper was updated with a thicker nylon fabric soon after. Andy dotty resoled another pair of walshes for a later traverse.

In reply to Nic Barber:

Makes sense. Believe he's sponsored by them.

In reply to Joint:

Only thing to add is that whatever shoe you pick your sizing will be impacted by your experience climbing in then. Shoes sized for an ultra will feel impossible to climb in, those sized for climbing will Muller your toes if running. Some balance required. 

Oh and Salomon senses would be my pick, or maybe the alp.

In reply to Full moon addict:

So you've tried the shoes that pipecleaner suggested to back up your statement? I like the Arcteryx norvan SL on rock, unfortunately the VJs are too narrow for my feet, so I could try the La Sportiva's.

In reply to JuneBob:

Are the Arteryx Norvan particularly durable or not? Just reading about them it says they’re super light weight which I would associate with them just getting ripped to shreds on the first scramble 😂 

In reply to elliot.baker:

They're more durable than is expected. At under 200g the upper is pretty much just a layer of toughish synthetic with very thin mesh.  There's no fabric inside and most of the weight is in the underfoot.  

My first pair lasted a full year with some big mileage and a good but of scrambling.  Even climbed indoors in them for easy routes to save my climbing shoes.  

That said if you're jamming your feet I doubt they'd last too long.

But for such a specialist shoe they're well worth the money.  But don't go near a wet muddy slope in them!

In reply to elliot.baker:

I haven't used them enough to say, they survived two scrambles intact so far, which is better than some other shoes I've tried (Topo M-terraventure Yellow trail, and I think Altra Timp 1.5 both failed miserably with the uppers getting shredded, although they may not be very suitable; I used the Altra King MT 1.5 for a few rough trail runs, and it was much better than the other two and felt secure on steep rock)

In reply to various - I have a pair of the older Norvan - they aren't as tough as the Salomons, which I think are a really good shoe.  They work for Killian well enough

Never tried the Sportivas - they feel too floppy for me (for lack of a better word) , I like a stiffer midsole.  

This is all very dependant on personal preference

In reply to Joint:

VJ Sport XTRMs great sticky rubber, decent sized cleats, comfortable, reasonable cushioning. I have climbed plently of diffs and vdiffs in them and run ridges.

In reply to elliot.baker:

That makes me feel very old. It's not that long ago (at least it seems so to me) that pretty much nobody wore anything else!

In reply to elliot.baker:

At the risk of being bared from the forum. I would recommend. Karrimor- mount low, to any one looking for a tough comfortable walking / scrambling shoe.

https://www.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-mount-low-mens-walking-shoes-183075?g...

They are not light by trial shoe standards.  But they grip rock really well.  I wear mine jogging and scrambling all summer long up on the moors. As well as wearing them as approach shoes when climbing. The thick cushioned sole protects my not so young knees too.  The lip means they are not great for climbing in, but for the horse shoe I think they could be ideal.  Though I wore my Scarpa boots last time I was up there. It was winter.

In reply to Joint:

Sportiva of course make climbing shoes and they use different rubber compounds on their trail shoes, with the super bendy/minimalist Helios having the stickiest rubber (it's marketed as a Skyrace shoe, but I wouldn’t like to climb in it, nor stand on any pointy rocks).

I had two pairs of their Anakondas five years ago and I reckon they were the stickiest rubber on a trail/fell shoe I’ve used, but they fell to bits very quickly.

Unless you’re going for a record I would have thought the ideal shoe for most people would be the climbing/running hybrid Sportiva TX Guide? Stiff enough to edge in and apparently an soft enough midsole to run in them too.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

I would second this suggestion (I have a pair) but they have a slightly odd fit so try before you buy.

In reply to Pipecleaner:

IMHO, Walshes *were* the best for UK hills in general, but their forte was always steep grass - particularly traversing -  rather than rocky terrain (and were terrible on wet wood as I was regularly reminded). They were also resoleable at very low cost which made the high wear rate irrelevant.

However, the last lot I got (~10 years ago) were not a patch on the originals. The originals had no insole and no padding in the uppers and a very rough inner surface like shark skin. Particularly once wet they basically were just glued to your feet - no slippage, movement, blisters. It was as though the awesome studs they had were part of your foot. The last pair I had were much more 'immediate comfort' oriented, with a loose insole, sloppy heel and padding. Ruined, ruined I say! They're still better than may other alternative, but not as good as they used to be. Unless the design has reverted to the original.

Not sure they would have been my first choice for the Cuillin Ridge though - the long studs tend to 'wobble' disconcertingly on rock. Partly worn down, might be OK, but hard on the joints (minimal cushioning in the sole).

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

While I'll agree the mudclaws are great for hill runs, I wouldn't recommend them for the ridge. I find the tread too long and flexible for "proper" climbing, the roclites are a bit stiffer, but still more in the running than climbing category.

It really depends on route choice and how much soloing is planned. I've always gone slow on the Cullin in something I'm happy soloing in with at least 3 grades in hand...

In reply to mal_meech:

Yes, I'd agree with this. I've not been on the ridge for over a decade (blimey) but the last time I was there was in a pair of Mudclaws which I didn't find great on the more scrambly bits, even though I like them for pretty much everything else. It could well be that of that type of thing Walshes are still best on the ridge, although I also agree with Marek that the quality seemed to decline at some stage - the last couple of pairs of Walshes I had (this is also quite a while ago) weren't as good as the earlier ones.

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Its more than 20 years since I was last on the ridge but I'm fairly sure when I did the ridge I wore a pair of Walshes - we were not running but they were my usual summer wear in the hills at the time. They seemed a better compromise for scrambling/easy climbing/walking than any thing else I had at the time. I think at least one other in our group was wearing a pair of KSBs (the first generation)

In reply to mal_meech:

The thought of soloing wet basalt in Walshes makes me shudder!

In reply to Joint:

Try Sportiva TX guides. If they fit there a great combo of climb/run shoe. 

In reply to elliot.baker:

Never heard of Walshes! I don't believe it!!!!

In reply to Deleated bagger:

Definitely before my time too.......!

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

I find the mudclaws slippy on wet rock, certainly not confidence inspiring. But on mud - they're great - so can't see how they'd be good for Cuillin ridge.

In reply to Michael Hood:

A fairly worn-down pair might be OK in solidly dry weather, but I agree you wouldn't want newish ones in the wet. On which subject, I once went up the Howitzer on Helm Crag on a day when it had been raining for 15 hours continuously. Was in a newish pair of Mudclaws and put an old baggy pair of socks over them, retro-style. Felt a bit silly/self-conscious but it did the job.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Pretty much anything. It’s significantly easier 

than the Cuilin ridge. Go from gate back to gate at PYP and run the horseshoe over snowdon summit 

and over Yr Lliwedd. It’s called the Blue Riband. I did just under 21/2 hrs. Record 1 hr 26 or something. I used innov. 8s.  

In reply to Marek:

Wet weather is what the detours are for!

Most of the Gabbro is fine, but the polish on TD gap and even the An Stac scramble are not to be underestimated in the wet!!!

I still wouldn't use Walshes though... the old 5.10 guides or La Sportiva guides (ie more climbing / less running) would be my choice. Plus in 20yrs of trying I've never linked fitness / weather / partners / priorities to bother doing the full ridge in a day, you need to be very fit and very good (or lucky) to rock up and do it first try.

Last time doing the southern half in zero viz we were passed by the same super fit pair 4 times as they kept getting lost and we overtook them by staying on route (or using the sensible detours!!!)