Can you run a marathon and it not hurt?

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 elliot.baker 01 Sep 2020

I ran a flat marathon yesterday morning which I'm v. proud of, in about 4:36. 

I've followed no formal training plan other than running 2-4 times a week all year, ran about 700km now this year. Several half marathons and one 18 mile run / walk around Kinder.

I ran a marathon three years ago following slightly less running in the build up and I was basically on my knees every few minutes for the last 5-8km

I was expecting this marathon to be easier because I've done more running and I carried some energy bars etc. (which I didn't do last time).

The first half was a doddle, easy peasy, gave me false hope! The second half got progressively worse, aching feet bones and leg muscles, having to stop every so often and walk for a few minutes, getting cramp etc., my splits went from c. 5:30 min/km at the start to 08:40 at the end. 

Had a good lie down for a couple hours after and could barely move, today feel achey but not too bad.

My question is - if I had trained more, or say, went and did another one in a few weeks - would it be easier? I assume so - since I can run a half marathon with no discomfort at all...

Also - because my splits deteriorated so much - (my average was 06:32) should I have tried to start out artificially slowly (I did try but obviously not hard enough). If I do it again should I try to start at 6:30min/km and maintain that throughout?

Thanks for any thoughts!

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 DancingOnRock 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

You’ll injure yourself if you repeatedly try to run marathons by brute force. 
 

I would suggest the minimum would be to do a 2:30 run every week (Don’t worry about the specific distance - run it a minute a mile slower than your marathon pace, but no longer than 2:30-2:45) with an easy 1 hour run plus an interval session during the week. 
 

You need to progressively overload your muscles, tendons and bones so that they grow stronger. Tendons take 3x the length of time to recover and strengthen. So 2-3 days for muscles to recover 6-9 days for tendons. Keep overloading your tendons without recovery and they’ll fail. 

Post edited at 12:20
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 steveriley 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

Nothing to add other than that halfway in a marathon is about 18 miles in

Roadrunner6 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

Yes, just train more. New Years Day Boston Marathon (its an informal race), I ran 3:10 marathon, starting at 5 am. I was fine, but I was a good 45 seconds off mile pace, averaging 7:20-7:30 or so. 

But if running at PR speed it should be uncomfortable. When I'm fully targeting a marathon I can barely run at that speed in training and so when go to put it together from 10 miles on I'm hurting. 

Certainly start slower, but run more at marathon pace towards the end of your long runs. Don't get too focused on long runs, I think MLR's are crucial. Most of your aerobic gains come from 80-100 minutes of solid running, so try to run that length at least twice a week.

In reply to elliot.baker:

Like you say, it looks like you were running too fast at the beginning and ending up knackered long before the end probably because you are more used to half marathon and shorter distances.

My guess is that if you ran another one in a few weeks and watched your pace at the beginning you'd get a better time.

 dread-i 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

Well, the obvious answer is, yes; or you'd be posting, 'Why does a half marathon hurt so much?'

A marathon is meant to be hard. Take 5 mins and give yourself a pat on the back/ pint/ slice of cake or whatever for a job well done.

If you ran, rather than run/walk, then you'd still be suffering. If you could run it without suffering, you'd be complaining that you could have pushed more.

It's a learning process. Next time, you'll know you might need more long runs. From those you'll be able to understand if you need more food/ water/ electrolytes on the go. Location, weather, crowd support will also affect how you feel. How you feel will dictate pace.

For what its worth, I find it hard to run at a set pace. I keep an eye on pace, but perk it up by spotting and catching people in the distance. I find it far more motivating to pas the guy dressed as a banana who's 100m ahead, than to try and add an extra 5s/km.

Post edited at 14:31
 Alex1 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

Your issue is you've simply not done enough long running - as far a I can see from that list the only thing you've done over a half is the 18 mile run/walk which isn't good prep for 4+ hours of concrete bashing.

Basically do more long runs up to a max of 20-22 miles as part of the training cycle - lots of info online

Post edited at 15:23
 abr1966 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

I would agree with some other comments....you may need more road running in prep....especially a few longer runs of 20-22 miles. Im no runner but I did do a marathon in boots and combats in the late 80's....I had a bucket on my back which was half full of coins by the end. What I suffered with was running on concrete all that way and hardy any undulations....I knew I could cover the distance but I hadn't accounted for the joint and tendon strain from the relentless surface....took me a good week to recover I recall. Just more miles and smart but specific prep for marathons will be the key....4 1/2 hours is respectable for sure but good prep and you could knock time off that....

 Phil1919 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

Longer training runs, aim for a realistic time and do a negative split. Careful pacing of the whole race will really pay dividends.

 RX-78 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

To steal a quote from another sport. "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster"

 abcdef 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

Twice you got burned in the second half of a marathon - from your info it seems obvious that you didn't prepare enough for either. Whether starting slower would have made a huge difference to the outcome is hard to say - probably not if you hadn't done anything at 20+ miles.

You now have yesterdays long run under your belt, so possibly if you tried again soon and went at a slower pace from the start you could finish in better style, but it still sounds like you are underprepared at the minute. Maybe a slow 21 miler in a week or so, then start to taper you could get a better result a few weeks later.

In reply to elliot.baker:

“It never gets easier, you just get faster”

 John Gresty 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

40 years ago, 3hr 5min white Peak marathon, took the girlfriend out for a meal that evening, went climbing on Black Rocks the next day. So yes, one can do a marathon without it hurting too much, it was only my second marathon so cannot put it down to experience. 

John

 DancingOnRock 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

I’d be very wary of anyone suggesting 20mile runs if you’re a 4hour+ marathon runner. That’s over 3 hours of running. 
 

The 20 miles has arisen from the 80s when most people running marathons were around 3hour runners. A long run of 2:30 will cover 20 miles. So people have taken the 20 miles rather than the 2:30. You won’t get any benefits for running longer than that. You’re better off doing a medium long run of 10-13 miles during the week to complement it. 

4
 Neil Williams 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

There was a bloke who ran Lakes in a Day (50 miles, 4000m ascent) in I think about 12 hours and then went to work as a night shift firefighter straight after.  So properly trained and uninjured I don't see why you couldn't run a road marathon without any damage.

Removed User 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

You didn't pace yourself.

Next time try to stay closer to that average pace at the start, you can always speed up in the last five miles if you feel like it !

Removed User 01 Sep 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

> I’d be very wary of anyone suggesting 20mile runs if you’re a 4hour+ marathon runner. That’s over 3 hours of running. 

I think it's worth doing it once just to give yourself confidence that you can run something close to the full distance at a reasonable pace.

 summo 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

> Also - because my splits deteriorated so much - (my average was 06:32) should I have tried to start out artificially slowly (I did try but obviously not hard enough). If I do it again should I try to start at 6:30min/km and maintain that throughout?

It would not be starting artificially slow it would be your marathon pace. At a big event marathon you'd have no choice because of congestion, but it would of course be better to start slower than race pace anyway, so you have something in reserve, too fast at the start at a threshold pace is why many novice marathon runners hit the so called wall. If you are feeling good you can always pick the pace up progressively, or stretch out a little down any hills. 

Do you use a heart monitor? If not try one, most of the time they help to slow you down, as it's easy to get carried away at the start of a long event or even training run. 

Post edited at 18:14
 bouldery bits 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

The answer is yes, it is possibly to run a marathon and it not hurt.

To do so at a pace that is 'quick', within your own definition of quick, no. Absolutely not. 

I ran 5k today. It really hurt. Deliberately so. 

Back to low and slow tomorrow. 

 DancingOnRock 01 Sep 2020
In reply to Removed User:
 

Maybe, but he’s already run 26. I’ve seen so many people run their race 3 weeks early when they’ve run 20miles in record time. And then never recovered for the actual race. 

 webbo 01 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

If it didn’t hurt then what would be the challenge in doing one.

 Enty 02 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

Do what them Iron Man people do and walk it in 6 hours.

E

 BuzyG 02 Sep 2020

Only ever jogged one marathon last year across Dartmoor.  took me 7:36 mins though. That is much faster than I thought it would to be honest. The winner was around 4 hours in a course record for comparison.   Bearing in mind I'm 15 stone and approaching 60.  There was no pain apart from a slight calf pull climbing up to kitty tor from the valley, Had to walk that off on the down hill to Arms tor. 

I enjoyed it so much I was training for the 50 miler this year, until it was cancelled.  

I believe the term is conditioning.  If you are fortunate and able to train hard enough for an event, and taper properly prior to it, then the event becomes a routine day in the park.  It's the training that hurts.

Post edited at 23:40
 petemeads 03 Sep 2020
In reply to elliot.baker:

The rule of thumb used to be that your marathon time would be twice your half plus 10 minutes, and that worked pretty well in my case, but setting off at a pace 5 mins slower than your half will feel unnecessarily slow. I calculated that my natural slowing during a marathon was 1 second per mile every mile and tried to follow this strategy by getting my watch to announce the desired splits. During the race, London, the 3rd mile was downhill and the calculations went out the window in pursuit of an unrealistic new target. Finished 40 seconds slower than my calculated time, and in considerably more pain over the last half...

 DancingOnRock 03 Sep 2020
In reply to DancingOnRock:

>That’s over 3 hours of running. 

 

3 dislikes for this post. Do you guys actually go out on 3:00-3:20+ training runs for the last 5 or 6 weeks leading up to a marathon? 


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