Barefoot shoes - running form and injuries

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 glenn0010 15 Mar 2021

So I've been getting into ultra running and I love it. Only problem is I keep having little niggles. Mainly rolling my left ankle and hip pain.

I've been doing strength and conditioning which has helped a bit.

But  I have a feeling my form isn't quite up to scratch.

Have you folks had experience with tying barefoot shoes to help with running form and such?

Cheers

 nufkin 15 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

Using them helped me change to a more forefoot-landing style, and perhaps a little adjustment in my stride length/cadence ratio. Not sure about injury prevention - I change back and forth depending on the run so it's hard to know what cured/caused what.

I don't use them for very long distances though - maybe it'd be okay on softer ground (and with the appropriate accustomisation) 

 SouthernSteve 15 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

Be a bit cautious if you are currently in high drop (heal to toe) or more supportive shoes that you transition very carefully or you might break yourself. Although 'Born to Run' suggests it is sliced bread of shoe design, it is not for everyone and I ended up doing a lot of physio a few years back changing just to a flat shoe.

Some very serious athletes heel strike and have asymmetric gaits – could you afford a sport physio appointment after lockdown?

 wbo2 15 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010: assuming you live near a track have you considered going there .  You can do drills there to improve form and try running barefoot in a relatively controlled,  easy environment.  

 In an ideal world grass would be  etter, but good quality grass without junk, dog sht and so on is pretty rare

 BattyMilk 15 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

You mention you’re “getting into” ultra running. It might not be related to your form at all. It takes your tendons and joints a much longer time to adjust than your engine. If you ramp up the mileage too fast and don’t let yourself recover sufficiently you’ll pick up niggles and injuries.
 

Using the usual “conservative” guide of 5% increase a week in most plans I got up to marathon distance but couldn’t do it without a couple of weeks of limping from knee, ankle and foot pains afterwards each time while my CV recovery was fine. Consistent running with no focus on form over a few years and I’ve just ticked off a 50k with none of the previous pains and marathon distance (while far from fast) can be just a regular long weekend run letting me get on with whatever I need to in the afternoon rather than a 2hr bath and the rest of the day laying on the couch. 
 

In my experience, ultra running is very much a long game and I’ve found it takes a lot of patience both in the runs and the training. 

 unicycleboy 15 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

I used to get shin splints before swapping to barefoot style shoes. Swapping over worked well for me however when I recently tried some padded (still zero drop) shoes niggles started returning. I think I land much lighter without padding, whether my form is better I don’t know but it cleared up any niggles I got.

maybe not relevant but I used to get bad pain at the front of the hip during and after running, breathing with odd numbers (say 3 steps in 2 steps out so that your fully exhaled/inhaled as you land on a different leg each time) solved my hip issue almost instantly. Might not work for you but is easy to try.

 Ciro 15 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

If you want to transition to minimalist shoes without injury, go barefoot first. 

If you can't run barefoot comfortably, your technique needs work, and minimalist shoes will allow you to run too far with that poor form and injure yourself.

Start very short and build up, but once you can run a 10km on road without suffering any abrasion or blistering you'll be ready for minimalist shoes.

OP glenn0010 16 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

Thanks all for the feedback! I'm actually quite lucky that I do have a quite big area of grass without too mucg dog poop on it so I think Ill start doing some runs on that first to get my feet used to it!

If that goes well, I'll transition to barefoot shoes as you suggested

 Ciro 16 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

> Thanks all for the feedback! I'm actually quite lucky that I do have a quite big area of grass without too mucg dog poop on it so I think Ill start doing some runs on that first to get my feet used to it!

> If that goes well, I'll transition to barefoot shoes as you suggested

I honestly wouldn't recommend transitioning from barefoot on grass to minimalist* shoes.

There may be enough cushioning in the grass to mask issues with your technique, resulting in you hitting the ground too hard when you transition to harder surfaces in minimalist shoes.

Even after a decade of minimalist running, I still take my shoes off now and again and go for a run on a hard surface for a technique check - make sure I'm not slipping into bad habits that could lead to injury. Invariably, I notice a slight technique shift as I settle into the run.

*"Barefoot shoe" is a dangerous oxymoron. The biggest difference between running barefoot and shod is not support or cushioning, it's the fact that the nerve endings in the sole of your foot have a connection with the ground and can tell you how you're hitting it. A thin layer of rubber between your feet and the ground is fine if you're running well, but can be the worst of both worlds if you aren't. Less feedback than barefoot and none of the shock absorption of regular shoes.

 Davvers 16 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

Hi Glenn, I run very short distances and had a knee issue, I came across a movement specialist Shane Benzie who runs Running Reborn. He fixed the issue where consultants and physios failed.

My family has used him to, google him and have a chat.

Happy running, Davin

 Ander 17 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

I switched about 10yrs ago to barefoot, "minimalist" and low rise/ low heel rise shoes. Tried a fair few types off the top of my head- five fingers, Inov8 minimalist shoes, New Balance minimus, Vivo barefoot, Merrell Pace gloves. I've also had a lot of barefoot 'day shoes'.

I certainly saw a drop in injuries, though now I find I get tight calves. I tend to have a few pairs at once so switch them round, particularly depending what I'm doing on that session, e.g. I used to avoid my ultra minimal Inov8s on a route I knew to be very rocky.

Furthest distance in minimalist-shoes? 50km training run (ie easy pace) in Merrell pace gloves, mostly metalled surface.

I transitioned fairly slowly into barefoot shoes (five fingers), which worked nicely as I started after a lay off (non-injury related). It was during this period I really noticed the change in gait. In particular I run more 'forefoot' (as many note) but also head up, with a noticeably low level of 'bobbing up and down', and I also used to crane my neck, which inevitably became head front to back bobbing and this is now also gone.

Also useful, I think, is core training which helps you maintain posture. I'd recommend (as it's free and pretty effective, and also got a climbing/mountaineering/mountain running angle to it) Scott Johnsons killer core routine https://www.uphillathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Scott’s-Kill... and videos here https://www.uphillathlete.com/how-to-do-core/

Post edited at 13:41
 Nick Nitro 18 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

What helped my knee niggles was switching to zero drop shoes (Inov-8 Terraultra) (carefully so as not to injure myself more), moved to forefoot strike and followed through the book 'even with your shoes on' and it massively with adjust yourself slowly to better improve your form.

 dovebiker 19 Mar 2021

I would look at trying running on soft / uneven offroad surfaces first - sand is particularly good at helping improve your foot stability.

Barefoot / minimalist shoe running does take a long period of adaptation, on top of the progression you're trying to develop with ultras. Maybe try a zero-drop shoe like Altra first to see how well you can adapt to the running style? 

 wbo2 20 Mar 2021
In reply to Nick Nitro: did you get faster?

Also, in general,  for people running barefoot,  how many weeks,  months, years to build up to 10km?

 mikekeswick 20 Mar 2021
In reply to glenn0010:

Grass and soft surfaces are more or less a waste of time. Go barefoot on the rough stuff Actually doing it will teach you all you need to know.

Minimalist shoes are for after you have learnt how to run in your bare feet

I've been running barefoot for around 6 years now. All through winter etc...your body can deal with a lot more than we might suppose


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