UKH

Back in the 1970's I started climbing at Corby's crag in Northumberland. Lovely little soft sandstone crag. Beautiful views of the Cheviots. There was always someone there then. We gazed in wonder at Sunshine Superman which had a peg in it at the time. Later we watched in awe as Steve Blake did Bluebird. Could humans really climb routes like that? Having returned this summer to climb there again nearly 50 years later I couldn't get over how overgrown and unused the crag seemed to be. The UKC entry warns against overuse but it looked as if no one goes there now.  Where is everyone?

Are you complaining that the crag wasn't busy enough?

My excuse is a broken toe.

Corby

Corbyn

Corgone

Too soon?

Fashions change.

I had the experience on two visits to Goat's crag in Borrowdale in 1990 and 2013, both on sunny Saturdays in June. In 1990, the place was packed; in 2013 it was green and deserted. 

The scene has moved on. More people climb but it has diversified. Lots of people climb and boulder indoors. Easyjet and Ryanair offer flights for £50 to southern European bolted crags. 

I don't really mind. The old crags are returning to their previous state. You can leave the guidebook behind and have an adventure.

Not complaining. Its better in some ways. Just wondering where the climbers are now.

Same at Avon

maybe its all for the best.☺

They're probably looking for somewhere to dry their tool. Tool drying has become very popular lately and this site is often plagued by posts from people - men - seeking somewhere to dry their tool or a partner with whom to enjoy mutually dry tools.

It's no wonder that the climbing scene has changed. I blame it on Ron Hills tracksters.

T.

Get well soon 😊

Thanks for making me laugh out loud!

Thanks.  I have started running again but I reckon it will be another month before I can put climbing shoes on again.  Just in time to start breaking new year resolutions.

They are all at Wyndcliff Quarry!

I got  accused of trying to dry tool someone in the back of a Vauxhall Viva near that poky little quarry at the end of Pule Hill and that was a long time before Ron Hills.....

Those stripey Troll tights were worse by far; I was once foolish enough to sport my thighs in a pair - in an inland spanish town - got mobbed by a crowd of youths :o 

We have this conversation quite a lot amongst UKC and Rockfax people. I think the answer is that the climbers have gone somewhere other than Corby's Crag because they can.

In the Peak the crag quoted is often Stoney Middleton - hotspot of activity in the late 60s and 70s and yet these days is rarely busy.

Well, had Horseshoe Quarry been developed, Raven Tor (Miller's Dale) been at the cutting edge, bouldering been popular as an activity, and indoor walls existed, then Stoney probably wouldn't have been that popular in the late 60s and 70s.

Alan

Exactly. Stoney was easy to get the bus there, same as millstone. No wonder they were the most popular crags. 

Maybe its the weather, long hot summers seem to be a thing of the past and that sandstone takes forever to dry out when it rains every other day! Mind you climbers do seam to be getting lazier, you rarely see masses on the high mountain crags that take 1 1/2hr + walk inns, or maybe their just pushed for time!

Interesting typo - sure there's a witty quip somewhere, but I can't quite think of it.

Can’t comment on the trad side of things but there’s a very healthy amount of summer activity in the high mountain bouldering areas. 

I first climbed there in 1972. Even then it was impossibly shiny on any routes I could contemplate. This could have a bearing on its unpopularity nearly half a century later. 

A lot of good points here. Also huge rise in the number of people who boulder as a sport in it's own right, rather than as a bit of fun every now and then, huge rise in the popularity of sport climbing over trad, and phenomenal growth of indoor climbing with many devotees never venturing outside. 

When I started climbing 60 years ago trad was all there was*, but we didn't call it that - just "climbing". There were fewer people dong it, and whilst you might occasionally meet other climbers on a crag at weekends, you were unlikely to see others on weekdays. Steadily over the next 30 years, this changed and the crags started to become crowded, then over the next 30 years, came the pursuits mentioned above and apart from popular roadside crags the trend has been for the more remote crags and mountain crags to become less crowded again, although you will still have to queue at weekends at popular crags, often encouraged by the star system in guide books, and since the publication of books like Classic Rock and Hard Rock.

*apart from scrambling which has always been popular, and a few people experimenting with artificial tension climbing in the 1960s

A bit like Laddow in a previous era. Although thought of as a long walk these days, it used to be popular (as the polish attests) when it was an easy walk from Greenfield station (and with a cooperative gamekeeper too)

I'm reminded of a very old edition (late '60s) of Rocksport - is the right name? - in which there is a letter bemoaning the fact that the mountain crags are all getting overgrown as fewer people are climbing on them. Plus ca change.....

Stanage?

I jest slightly, but now it's much easier to travel with higher car ownership etc people go to the good crags rather than the near ones.

Going from MK the standard story is "we could go to some godforesaken Leicestershire quarry, or we could go an hour further on the M1 and go somewhere actually nice".

It seemed apparent decades ago that folks were slowly but surely deserting the trad limestone crags of the Dales. This seemed to me to coincide with the advent of the bolting up of places such as Giggleswick with lots of lower-grade climbs more accessible to those without the skill set and frame of mind of trad climbing.  I don't climb these days but do frequently walk past lots of places that used to be very popular. On a walk past Pot Scar recently it was breezy on the heights but dry, warm and sheltered at the crag foot. Of course there wasn't a soul about. I suspect nearby climbing walls would have been busy.

Its just fascinating how things change. In the 80's if you saw anyone aid climbing you would think they had come through a time portal from the past. Now its getting like that with trad.

Peeps do still climb there, it remains a popular evening crag.  Folks are much more aware of the potential For erosion if it’s at all damp.  There’s still plenty of climbers active in the county, but the excellent local walls provide good bad weather alternatives....... wait till the sun shines (again!)

This seems to be the crux of it, Steve. Towards the end of my active climbing period (about 8/9 years ago) I got the distinct impression that if conditions were even slightly 'challenging' then The Wall would be the main attraction without a doubt. Going to a real crag just didn't enter into it. My last main climbing partner and I would scour the ground for anywhere dry to climb on even in the depths of winter. Places like the more sheltered sport venues would be OK if a little uncomfortable. In the end, even he got lured to The Wall and I decided that my days climbing were on the way out for this and other reasons. I just could not believe that a day inside was in any way shape or form as good as a good old fashioned fight with a real rock climb, even in sub-optimal conditions. 'Generation Snowflake' - who knows?

I don't think that is the case at all. We sell far more Eastern Grit and North Wales Climbs guides than Peak Limestone, Dorset and bouldering guides. The grit edges are as packed as ever, the popular crags in the Pass, Tremadog and Borrowdale and Langdale are always busy. Just check the UKC logbooks to see that trad ascents outnumber sport by 2 to 1 and 3.5 to 1 for bouldering.

Yes, crags vary in popularity and easy access to transport has had a big impact on where people go climbing, but the main reason why some crags appear less popular than they used to be is that there are now so many more alternatives.

Alan

Er, is it?  You been to Stanage on a nice day?

What a fantastic route that is.

I used to meet up with people after work to go trad climbing. Now everyone's working late, working shifts, needs to stay in mobile reception for on call or looking after children (grandparents not nearby, babysitter too expensive, don't know their neighbours well enough to ask) so now I just go bouldering.

Is that all?! Considering that there are so many more trad crags than sport, that's really surprising to me. Maybe trad really is dying. 

Would anyone like to guess what that ratio would have been 10 or 20 years ago? 

If they went in the 70’s they probably did all the routes in a day, so had no need to go back.

That includes all logs, so not just the UK.

About the same. 40 years ago, obviously not.

Alan

Does the crag have hard landings?  Is a mat helpful? Does it have bolts?  By answering these Q's you may get the answer to your query.

No bolts...thats for sure...

60 years ago I was doing almost as much pegging as trad. I never experimented with artificial tension but there was a lot of natural tension as the leaf pegs kept popping out of London Wall. 

But trad takes a lot longer than sport, which must be factored in.