Unruly crag dogs

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 dig26 18 May 2022

Was at Chee Dale yesterday with a friend when two parties turned up, one with a fairly mellow dog, the other running about all over the place, muddying up all the ropes and getting tangled in them, running right underneath us climbing. At one point the dog came over and decided to have a ruffle through my new-ish Peak Limestone book, completely ripping out 5 or 6 pages. Then the more mellow dog decided to hunt through someones stuff and eat their lunch. One of the owners came over and called back the unruly one at this point but completely blanked me and did not even apologise or acknowledge us. I just stewed because I don't enjoy confrontation and it just makes me more angry.

Should owners apologise on behalf of their dogs? Am I being overly unfair? It was a young and very energetic dog, but shouldn't owners show a bit more respect for other climbers, tether it up if it's being a nuisance etc? I generally love dogs and am all for crag dogs, but this was a particularly frustrating encounter...

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 LakesWinter 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

Those dog owners sound like idiots. Nothing wrong with dogs at the crag if they are under control

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Message Removed 18 May 2022
Reason: inappropriate content
 plyometrics 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

Dogs aren’t unruly. Owners on the other hand…

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OP dig26 18 May 2022
In reply to LakesWinter:

Glad I'm not the only one. In hindsight should have spoken my mind but was in that slight state of disbelief at their lack of apology that leaves you a bit speechless... 

 peppermill 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

Did they see what their dog was up to or did you say anything? 

Yesterday on my run through one of the Glasgow parks I had a St Bernard playfully run along with me then nip me on the thigh. Not hard, no damage done but enough to go "Ow, what the fck". Pretty sure it wasn't aggressive, if it was from something that size I don't think I'd have been upright but a few words with the owner were definitely needed who was rightly mortified

OP dig26 18 May 2022
In reply to peppermill:

Ouch, yeah probably playful intent, but still. 

They saw it clear as day but no one chose to say anything... they just carried on chatting and then one lady sat with the dog for a bit with her back turned from me, before promptly letting it run riot again!

 Graham Booth 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

I think a shouting at was completely in order....give dog owners bad reputations...shows climbers can be dicks too....

 FreshSlate 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

Commiserations, a dog ate my lunch once and it qas apparently my fault for leaving my bag on the ground. 

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 Andypeak 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

As a dog owner who sometimes takes my dog to the crag if that had been my dog I would have been very apologetic, offering to buy you a new guide book and lunch. 

 Maggot 18 May 2022
In reply to FreshSlate:

Next time, spike your lunch with something that will make the owners to never let their dogs go foraging ever again. 😀

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In reply to dig26:

I'm hyper aware when I take my dog to the crag as I know that not all people like dogs and that's absolutely fine! If no one is there he can charge around and do whatever he wants but if others are there he gets tied up, especially at cheedale as he likes swimming!!

It's hard but definitely tell the owners their dog is being a knob. If they get frustrated at you it's only because they're embarrassed (trust me, I've had it!!!) Sorry about your lunch and guidebook!

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 ALF_BELF 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

People that brings dogs climbing are complete twiats, my close circle of friends included. In fact, especially them

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 Trangia 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

A few years ago I was looking for a spot to stop, eat my sandwiches, and have a coffee from my flask, when I saw a neatly stacked wood pile in the field a few yards off the public footpath that I was walking. I'd just got comfortable and had got out the sandwiches, when I saw a man approaching with two loose dogs, which made a bee line for me and started trying to eat my sandwiches, and were generally shoving their noses into the rucksack which was open.  So I shouted at him "Will you PLEASE keep your dogs under control, and call them back!"

Quick as a flash he shouted back, "Will you PLEASE stop sitting on MY log pile!"

There was a stunned silence, then we both burst out laughing

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 peppermill 18 May 2022
In reply to FreshSlate:

Remember, some people's "Ickle Doggos" can do no wrong.....

7
In reply to dig26:

> Should owners apologise on behalf of their dogs?

They shouldn't need to. They should control their dog.

If a dog goes over to someone belaying, the owner should call it back; belayer doesn't need the distraction. If the dog starts interfering with bags, ropes or guide book, they should call the dog back and teach it not to do that again.

 Babika 18 May 2022
In reply to captain paranoia:

Last week I had to use the "call.your dog off please" shout and the reply? "He's only a puppy". Wtf

It seems to be the new version of "he's only being friendly"

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 Danbow73 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

As a crag dog owner I definitely wouldn't be letting my dog behave in that way. He has stolen someone's lunch before but in his defense he was on the lead and there was an open pre packaged sandwich unattended on a rock next to the path which I didn't spot until he snaffled it. 

Going through bags is unacceptable but  I'm always surprised at the amount of people that spread their stuff all over the bottom of the crag and treat it like a climbing wall! 

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In reply to Danbow73:

> As a crag dog owner I definitely wouldn't be letting my dog behave in that way. He has stolen someone's lunch before but in his defense he was on the lead and there was an open pre packaged sandwich unattended on a rock next to the path which I didn't spot until he snaffled it. 

To be fair, this is not a defence 

> Going through bags is unacceptable but  I'm always surprised at the amount of people that spread their stuff all over the bottom of the crag and treat it like a climbing wall! 

Guilty as charged. I'm trying to retrain myself on this one! 

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 Danbow73 18 May 2022
In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:

I think most dogs would consider tasty food left on the floor fair game although I did tell him off for it as obviously it's not behaviour that should be encouraged! 

Its poor practice on the owners part - it was in a area where livestock graze and a greedy sheep taking fancy to the food/ packaging could result in said sheep becoming quite Ill.

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 Robert Durran 18 May 2022
In reply to Maggot:

> Next time, spike your lunch with something that will make the owners to never let their dogs go foraging ever again. 😀

Apparently it's the owners who are the problem, so why ruin your own lunch? Spike theirs with something which will make them never see their dog again. Ok, might as well dispatch the dog as well.

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 Eduardo2010 18 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

"he never normally does this" is my favourite.

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In reply to Danbow73:

> I think most dogs would consider tasty food left on the floor fair game although I did tell him off for it as obviously it's not behaviour that should be encouraged! 

You reacted just how I would like a dog owner to react

> Its poor practice on the owners part - it was in a area where livestock graze and a greedy sheep taking fancy to the food/ packaging could result in said sheep becoming quite Ill.

I agree, and I'm not entirely innocent on this one. Although if there are livestock/wild animals around I do try to keep everything locked securely in my bag

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 Toerag 19 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

The next time an uncontrolled dog jumps up at me or my kids and slobbers on us when we're out on a walk and tells me "he's only being friendly" I'm going to do the same to it's owner.  I'm pretty sure they'll change their tune.

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In reply to dig26:

I love the levels of intolerance and threats that threads such as this expose.

It is very fortunate that we are all a lot less unpleasant in real life than we are online. 

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Message Removed 19 May 2022
Reason: inappropriate content
 ChrisBrooke 19 May 2022
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> I love the levels of intolerance and threats that threads such as this expose.

> It is very fortunate that we are all a lot less unpleasant in real life than we are online. 

No-one should have to tolerate someone else's dog running over their ropes, chewing their guidebook and eating their lunch. Pretty basic stuff. Like picking up the poop. You can't say: well, if you don't like accidentally treading in my dog's sh1t, perhaps you shouldn't come to the crag.... You are responsible for your dog in public. Full stop. I write that as a dog owner, and one who would be mortified if my animal had behaved in the way described. 

 henwardian 19 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

I think it was the RSPCA that originally had the motto "all dogs should be fed to other dogs until only one dog remains, and it should be put in a zoo".

I'm not so extreme and I've definitely mellowed with age. Dogs bring a lot of people a lot of happiness but I would say that the owner needs to control their dog if their dog is not capable of controlling itself. There are lots of people who go over to someone's dog and say "hello gorgeous, etc etc" and that's fine, the problems only start when it's the other way around because there are lots of people who don't like being approached by a dog (particularly if it's about 4 feet high, built like a brick sh**house and baring bloodsoaked fangs) so the basic rule for me is that the dog should be on a leash if it doesn't respond to a recall order from its owner or its owner is otherwise occupied and not able to control it.

In your situation I think I might have asked the dog owners if they had a guidebook. If it was in good order I'd probably suggest swapping now that their dog had mauled my one. I'd definitely have said something about putting the dog on a leash.

 Robert Durran 19 May 2022

In reply to henwardian:

> What you doing still in the UK then?! America is waiting for you with open arms! Hahahaha

I would consider shooting even the unruliest of dogs with a semi-automatic weapon jolly unbritish and unsporting; just not cricket.

Post edited at 12:36
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 ChrisJD 19 May 2022
In reply to Eduardo2010:

I normally get: 'he's never done that before' ... yeah, right

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 fmck 19 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

On the other end my Border terrier as a pup would get all excited meeting anyone. I would shout him back but they would say "it's alright he's just being friendly" Little did they know he was squarting piss all over their legs in excitement. He was on lead but some people cant resist a puppy. It sure learned them!

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 Sir Chasm 19 May 2022
In reply to fmck:

Why would you have to shout him back if he's on a lead? How about controlling your dog?

7
In reply to dig26:

I think your dog just ate my chocolate bar…

Clauso 20 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

I was once at a crag when a stray unruly dog suddenly swept over my shoulder, stole a doughnut out of my hand, and flew off to eat it on top of a streetlight!

When I tried to shin up the light pole to retrieve at least some of the doughnut - they were very tasty doughnuts - the dog sqwaked at me, shat on my head, and flew off to a tree.

The owner didn't seem to be around, and it should certainly have been on a lead.

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Clauso 20 May 2022
In reply to Clauso:

My mistake... Just reading that back, it wasn't a dog; it was a seagull.

And it wasn't at a crag; it was on Llandudno promenade.

You get the gist, though?

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 Wimlands 20 May 2022
In reply to fmck:

Long leads don’t always help do they.

Last Saturday at ParkRun I was sat down on a bench bent over tying my running shoes up and a dog, on a long lead, ran up to me and licked my face…I didn’t see it coming and it took me completely by surprise. Very disconcerting…

2 weeks prior to that I was stood looking at a warbler in a hedgerow with my binoculars and felt a punch/nip on my calf…dog on a lead had simply run up to me tried to bite me. It did have a muzzle on, but again disconcerting that it would do that…

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 65 20 May 2022
In reply to Clauso:

I had a similar experience, I was readying myself for a long lonely lead when a dog shat in my chalkbag.

No, I keep getting mixed up. I was waiting for a ferry when a seagull shat in my Guinness.

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 fmck 20 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

I once was converting a ship yard in Glasgow into a recycling yard. Didn't know where the dog was if he was eating a climbers pieces or mounting a sit start boulderer.

Started to shout his name then spotted him going like ten to the dozen towards me. Unfortunately I was on the other side of a factory concrete floor pour. Yep he got about 10m in and sunk in and I had to walk in to fish him out and hose him quickly. There were trowels flying about I can tell you.

Post edited at 17:44
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 StuDoig 21 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

A cracker on the last Highlander MM.  We'd got to the top of the last big climb and my knackered partner sat down for a well earned buttie, only to have it stolen out of his hand by the SAR dog belonging to the marshal at the check point.  Shouldn't have laughed but the look on his face was hilarious 😂.  A definitely psychological hoof in the knackers!

In reply to Clauso:

> You get the gist, though?

Not really; I don't know anyone who keeps a seagull as a pet, especially not as a notionally-trained pack animal pet.

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 Godwin 21 May 2022
In reply to Presley Whippet:

My dog Jessica Anabelle is 17 years young, not much sight, not much hearing, and a little bit of Dementia. The vet though says she is happy enough.

When we go for a walk with her, the owd lass just want leaving alone, so when someones dog comes a bounding up, she just does not like it, and I take huge exception to the owner saying it just wants to be friends. In fact I get agitated and sadly I express this to the owner. There is a huge universe for peoples dogs to bound about in, they can go anywhere they want, but please avoid the couple of square meets that I and Jessica Anabelle are in, or it just gets unpleasant. So how people keep their dogs out of my 2 square meets I have no interest, maybe a lead or just training, just do it.
Or how about the Dog that knocked my Wife of her Bike on a Sustrans route. The owner whose dog was off the lead tried to face me off when I got agitated, but then I got even more agitated, and suggested that as my Wife was on the ground and her bike might be damaged and that I might start damaging him, he pissed off.
Or how about the dog owner with her dog on a 10 yard long lead that tripped me up and she laughed and said she was sorry, and I suggested that she was not sorry, because if she was she would not have a her dogs lead so long across a path and would not have laughed.
I have been around Dogs since birth and love them, but I totally despair of Dog owners nowadays who treat their dogs like little children and have no respect for other people. Its no wonder people get angry when dogs are running all over the place and jumping up at them, and just being a nuisance.

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In reply to Godwin:

Have you got a yellow lead?

https://www.yellowdoguk.co.uk/

 Tony the Blade 21 May 2022
In reply to Eduardo2010:

On a par with the cyclist version of SMIDSY.

 smollett 22 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

Biking home from work this week down an old railway line and a Jack russel decided to attach itself to my foot! Apparently I was going too fast, although I was at a standstill and no longer moving when it bit. I tried having a polite word, no aggression or anger but apparently "you cyclists are all the same, it's always someone else's fault". Sometimes you just can't argue with stupid.

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 Philb1950 22 May 2022
In reply to Godwin:

In that vein, we were climbing at the riverside in Cheedale with my friends old spaniel asleep by the river. A Jack Russell off the lead attacked the spaniel, whereupon my friend grabbed it and lobbed it into the river. The owner remonstrated loudly until he was threatened with the same and quickly did one.

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 Pedro50 22 May 2022

At  crowded Cornice in Cheedale a well known climber decided to throw a hefty stick for his dog. As he let fly he overbalanced from the boulder he was standing on but let fly anyway. The stick hit me on the forehead. He made a half-hearted apology. 

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 The Pylon King 22 May 2022
In reply to dig26:

I am designing a device that is based on one of those dog calming devices (high pitch signal that dogs hate but we cant hear) that will be constantly beeping and can be placed in your rucksac.

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