Tryfan firstly what type of rock is it?

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 Davy Murphy 30 May 2019

Tryfan summit (summit)Tryfan what type of cams to use first time buying them, just been told the rock is  rhyolite (not granite, limestone, sandstone ) reason I ask is depends on next purchase of cams to go trad climbing 🧗🏻‍♂️. Thinking to go for totems and I quote they said in an email to me “ The choice of the sizes for the totem cam depends by the type of rock which you are going to climb.
For granites the smaller sizes are more suitable, while for limestone the larger ones are recommended.
On our website you can find sets of 3 friends, from 0.8 to 1.25, that are the central sizes”

on wikipedia there is mention of what type of rock Tryfan is ,( rhyolite) What type of cams  cams and sizes would you need for it? Also bear in mind after wales the next trad climbing I will be doing is in Spain 🇪🇸. Thanks again Davy ⛰💪🏻✌🏻⛰👍🏻🧗🏻‍♂️

Post edited at 20:47
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 Mike-W-99 30 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

Look harder -  Tryfan

I've not let the rock type on one particular crag influence my gear purchases.

In reply to Davy Murphy:

Mate, you're getting too bothered about the wrong thing. On Tryfan depending on the particular route you're on you might be best off with either a microcam the size of a fingernail or something that best resembles an expanding breeze block. The rock has cracks of all these sizes, and more. 

So, what gear do you have already? Where do you think you need a bit more? Get some cams that size. If that sounds a bit simple well, it is that simple. There's no right and wrong here, just your opinion about what you need and want.

T.

OP Davy Murphy 30 May 2019
In reply to Mike-W-99:

Cheers mate yes over thinking it about but thought the email confused me abit. Bit with text of those rocks. Still looking into totems tho. Thanks for the reply 🧗🏻‍♂️

 d_b 30 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

If you use the wrong type of cams on tryfan you will die instantly. Only DMM 4CUs and the original rigid friends are rated for use with polished rhyolite, and nobody makes them anymore.

Fortunately you are in luck as I have some left over from my younger tryfan climbing days that I might be willing to part with...

5
OP Davy Murphy 30 May 2019
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Cheers mate the email confused me abit, it’s a minefield to look at which set and size of cams to get. Used totems in Spain outside Madrid and loved them for crack climbing a 6b. But was wondering if they be any use in wales in tryafan ? Cheers for the reply 

Davy 👍🏻🧗🏻‍♂️

OP Davy Murphy 30 May 2019
In reply to d_b:

Awesome tell me more 👍🏻

Deadeye 30 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

Checked your posts; you're really on a Tryfan mission, aren't you?

How did you get on in the Picos?  Do any Trad?  The big orange?

OK, cams.  All brands (except Rock Empire) have their advocates.

If you're asking the question then a 1-2-3 set (= +/- inches; sorry) is the wayto star. 

Or express yourself, and go 1.5-2.5-3.5 (or really wild 0.5-1.5-2.5).

Some people like Totems; others Camalots.  I like Friends (and turtles).

 tehmarks 30 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

The type of cam you place isn't going to be the most important distinction between the placement failing or not unless it's a crap placement to begin with - flaring, mirror polish, crap rock, etc.

Size-wise, equivalents of purple, red and gold Totems/Camalots/Dragons are a good start. Maybe shift the entire selection a size lower. But it also depends on what else is on your rack really. I wouldn't bother with the in-between sizes until you have a good range spanning fingers-loose hands (so blue-blue, or yellow/grey-blue).

Post edited at 21:18
OP Davy Murphy 30 May 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

Hi deadeye, didn’t get a partner for picos do europa, just probably too remote, will hikie but still have a week left so fingers crossed 🤞🏻  Looking forward to getting back to the uk mostly wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 Loved tryfan and started out there my first 2 trad climbs. Really liked Spain ( the weather was great in autum but getting too hot now) LA CABRERA I climbed a few weeks ago and a hard crack climb but enjoyed using totems. Would they be a sound investment and to use on tryfan and other parts of the uk? Everyone has there own views on cams and I’m still deciding what to get. Seen a friends set and they look good also. Cheers mate ✌🏻🧗🏻‍♂️

OP Davy Murphy 30 May 2019
In reply to tehmarks:

Nice one mate cheers for the advice ✌🏻🧗🏻‍♂️

Deadeye 30 May 2019
In reply to tehmarks:

> The type of cam you place isn't going to be the most important distinction between the placement failing or not unless it's on GreatNess Wall. Apparently.

FTFY.

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 tehmarks 30 May 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

Must go read the article properly instead of skimming the headlines...

 Jon Stewart 30 May 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

> All brands (except Rock Empire) have their advocates.

Well said!

 tehmarks 30 May 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

Quality product placement there...

 Andypeak 30 May 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

> OK, cams.  All brands (except Rock Empire) have their advocates.

I quite like my Rock Empire cams

1
 andyman666999 30 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

As what’s already been said - nearly any brand of cam is better than no cam (though other types of pro can be subbed in like hexes)  

generally though totems have a good reputation - I think they’re great, really smooth and soft alloy makes em nice and grabby! But Camelot’s, friends and dragons all great too  

 Danbow73 30 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

Just gonna throw this out there, the rock on tryfan can be really flakey and much better to use nuts than cams. 

To put it in perspective. we climbed the first 4 pitches of grooved arete and belle vue bastion without placing a single cam

In reply to Danbow73:

How was it that we managed to climb on Tryfan for years with just a very few basic nuts (hexes and Moacs), and never felt under-protected? A huge number of runners on Tryfan are simply slings over big spikes, and the occasional thread. I suppose on things like Munich and BVB we must have used a few smaller nuts ('wires'!), but I can't really remember.

Rhyolite is one of the most friendly climbing rocks on this planet, and doesn't need any special gear.

Post edited at 23:55
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 Danbow73 31 May 2019
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Before my time I'm afraid! Although I expect climbers were just much braver than I am 😂.

A fun fact is cams put up to 3 times the load on the lobes than the weight applied to them. so some of those hollow sounding flakes might take a nut okay but I wouldn't trust a cam

to be slightly more helpful to the OP I generally take a double set of wires including some offsets and cammalot size .5 .75 and 1 just in case. some big nuts or hexes are pretty handy to. I prefer the wild country nuts up to size 14 because I can't stand the sound of hexes. 

 Tom Valentine 31 May 2019
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Come off it, Gordon: you didn't have hexes when you started.

 Ian Parsons 31 May 2019
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> Come off it, Gordon: you didn't have hexes when you started.


Perhaps he means those with a single, [Whitworth] threaded hole.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

1967. They were very early long solid nuts of hexagonal cross-section, threaded on perlon. Nothing big (from about 1 - 3 centimetres in diameter.) We had just four of those, plus one MOAC. We very soon got another MOAC, because they were just so good. Slings were very important in those days. We started off with different sizes of cable-laid ones, then about a year later got our first tape ones (they were all knotted; you had to continually check the knot because they were very apt to fall apart.) At one stage I did actually pick up someone else's nut which was literally an industrial nut with the screw thread drilled out and threaded on a 'No.2' nylon sling.

Post edited at 00:58
 birdie num num 31 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

You can never have too many cams jangling around your gear loops. 

No use getting to the Ivy Chimney and finding you don’t have a size 25 Wild Country then have to ab off. 🧠👁🗣👤💃🕺🏿👗🐓🥥🦴

 NBR 31 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

Looking at your wish list I'd say make sure you have a good range of the old fashioned stuff, plenty of nuts and hexes (hexes are good have all the hexes!). The middle sizes of cams will probably be the most useful, but I'm sure you could place any size somewhere up there.

Post edited at 08:21
 DerwentDiluted 31 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

Is essential gear for Belle Vue Bastion (VS 4c) still a gramophone? I suppose the youngsters do it with Beats and Buds these days....

;0)

 duchessofmalfi 31 May 2019
In reply to Danbow73:

"A fun fact is cams put up to 3 times the load"

Typically the outward force is twice the pull at the usual camming angle ~13 degrees

The outward force for a nut is typically just under the pull but can reach double that in slippery placements - in the grand scheme of things a placement that can't take a cam because it will break probably shouldn't be trusted with a nut.

 mauraman 31 May 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

If I was you, I wouldn't want to buy cams based on a single type of rock, I would want to have as versitile a rack as possible.

I am not an experienced climber but I thought I will chip in with what I have found from using my "beginner rack". (I have just returned from Tryfan last week-end ,climbed overlapping route and gashed crag: Easy, friendly rock, lots of protection opportunities, used lots of spikes, some nuts and only one cam placement (for convenience more that necessity)

At present I do mainly multipitch, low grade routes to around VDiff (more mountaineering than climbing). I like to use passive gear a lot. I only have 4 cams, ranging from 10mm to 80 mm, all of different makes, bought at bargain prices when on sale. Useful at times but, at the level I am climbing, not indispensable. I also still climb with one rope and didn't really fell the need to get two half ropes yet, as long as I make good use of extenders.

I personally feel that climbing in this way will give me a good apprenticeship that will set solid foundation for harder climbing. I am more and more proficient at placing nuts quickly and precisely, at making the most of what the rock can offer, etc...

Cams will become important, eventually, but there is a lot of climbing that can be done without (or with just a few).

Deadeye 31 May 2019
In reply to Andypeak:

> I quite like my Rock Empire cams


A ringing endorsement; "quite like"!

 d_b 31 May 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

I have a couple.  They work and they were cheap.  They miss a few of the quality of life improvements you get with more expensive models but they will hold a fall.

Do I bother to carry them now I have fancier cams?  Not really. 

Am I happy placing them?  Yes.

Post edited at 10:28
Deadeye 31 May 2019
In reply to birdie num num:

> You can never have too many cams jangling around your gear loops. 

> No use getting to the Ivy Chimney and finding you don’t have a size 25 Wild Country then have to ab off. 🧠👁🗣👤💃🕺🏿👗🐓🥥🦴

😜😂😄😃🤖💚🖤💋👁👃💏👂👽🧕👁‍🗨☃

 krikoman 31 May 2019
In reply to Andypeak:

> I quite like my Rock Empire cams


Me too, what's wrong with them?

I have a mix of Rock Empire, HB and DMM and don't see much difference between them to be honest.

To the OP, although I haven't read all the replies and I'd be surprised if it wasn't answered previously, the type or rock, probably means what sort of placements to expect,rather than the specific rock composition.

 krikoman 31 May 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

>> 🧠👁🗣👤💃🕺🏿👗🐓🥥🦴

> 😜😂😄😃🤖💚🖤💋👁👃💏👂👽🧕👁‍🗨☃

Are we playing Catchphrase now? or are these Rebus Puzzles?

I can see something about, "Use you brain and lookout for asthmatic robots dancing like John Travolta he'll dress like a cock nut bone", in the top one, the bottom one has me foxed completely.

 d_b 31 May 2019
In reply to Deadeye:

> A ringing endorsement; "quite like"!

A lot of the gear fanboyism you see online is pretty unhinged.  "Quite like" is about the right level of emotion for a piece of equipment that works in much the same way as other pieces of equipment.

 Tom Valentine 31 May 2019
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I had the same but we didn't call them hexes, for some reason. There certainly didn't seem to be any solid ones of the size of  the later hollow monsters (thankfully).

 chris_r 31 May 2019

>  All brands (except Rock Empire) have their advocates.

If only Beal made cams, then we'd have a clear winner. 

OP Davy Murphy 31 May 2019
In reply to mauraman:

Great advice thanks mate 🧗🏻‍♂️👌🏻⛰🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

In reply to Tom Valentine:

> I had the same but we didn't call them hexes, for some reason. There certainly didn't seem to be any solid ones of the size of  the later hollow monsters (thankfully).

I think we called them 'hexagons', not 'hexes'. But perhaps they were called something completely different. Anyhow, here's a picture of some nuts dating from c.1970. The one second from left is what I'm talking about, and I'm sure dates from about late 67/early 68:

http://www.gordonstainforthbelper.co.uk/thefivaroute/geardiagramgall/03nuts...

 dinodinosaur 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Davy Murphy:

If you are climbing in North Wales you have to use all DMM gear, otherwise a horde of angry welshmen with pitchforks and torches will come for you.

But in all seriousness check out libby Peters Rock climbing essentials, this book will tell you all you need to know about building your first rack, and is essentially the Bible for all things UK climbing. 

Post edited at 09:08
OP Davy Murphy 01 Jun 2019
In reply to dinodinosaur:

Cheers Dino dinosaur 🦕, yeah was in rock and run Manchester getting nuts and quickdraws and the guy said you have to get local dmm, but the price between there nuts and wild country was £25 , and the slings of dmm were great! So I said that’s all very well how about 50% of what I can afford and the 50% local . So quick draw pack from dmm and rocks from wild country. Saving of over £30 ! Cheers buddy will check out the bible. Have  the rockfax book of trad it’s great also 👍🏻

 Mark Bannan 01 Jun 2019
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> Rhyolite is one of the most friendly climbing rocks on this planet, and doesn't need any special gear.

Absolutely! I learned to climb on Glencoe Rhyolite with nothing more than a few slings, 12 wires and 5 hexes. I often found that the old fashioned wires of 20 years ago placed very well sideways as well as conventionally.

The only time I consciously purchased a specific type of gear for a specific type of rock was my first trip to the Peak, when I bought my first 4 cams. I'm glad I did - I would have shat me britches on the likes of Hawk's Nest and Count's Crack without them!

Post edited at 11:37
 mauraman 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I am reading the new Tony Howard book ( -Quest into the unknown -brilliant, by the way..) and he mention that, short after he started manufacturing his "troll" nuts around the dates you mention, "Tanky" Stokes from Sheffield also started selling the H frame alluminium nuts. Is the one on the right of the photo one of those?

Never saw one before.

 Tom Valentine 02 Jun 2019
In reply to mauraman:

i vaguely remember some nut devices made by Parba and wonder if the thing on the right is one of those.

Just checked and it seems they were also made in Greenfield at the Troll factory.  

Post edited at 11:55
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Now that you mention 'Parba', that's ringing a huge bell. I think that's what it was. (Because I'm still recovering from my hip replacement I can't bend down enough to rummage in the back of the cupboard under the stairs where there's a carrier bag containing those early nuts to see if I can find it.)

Post edited at 14:53
 mauraman 02 Jun 2019
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

That's it! Parba! Thanks Tom and  Gordon. Always nice to learn about the history of Trad. 


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