UKH

I'm looking for some advice and information from people who know the area well, since I haven't been to the Lakes many times. I'm currently doing physio/rehab for a knee injury from last year. I can currently climb without too much difficulty at a HS/VS standard, but I'm currently much more limited by the approach and descent. Anything too uneven, slippery or steep is currently a challenge for me.

I'm looking to do Troutdale Pinnacle. My partner's guidebook doesn't contain too much information on the approach/descent, and I can't find much on the internet apart from the worrying information that someone tragically slipped and died on the descent a few years ago. Could somebody give me some idea of what I can expect on the descent?

I'd also very much appreciate suggestions for other multi-pitch routes in the Lakes that might be appropriate. It's a bit of a long shot but are there are any high mountain routes that might meet my requirements? I'm not too bothered by total distance/ascent/descent, more that the descent isn't too steep, blocky or uneven.

Thanks in advance for all suggestions.

In reply to Trevers:

TP feels like a hard severe/VS these days, esp when damp.

The walk up is shrouded in trees and slippery steps, moss-covered, very easy to slip or trip. Coming down is worse and quite unpleasant, friends have catapulted head first, quite dangerous although not steep. The whole path needs cleared of trees to let the sun in otherwise the steps are lethal going down when damp and shady which they usually are.

There is an approach from Quayfoot car park that is preferred, but it demands clever route finding and local knowledge, advantage is that it avoids all the stone steps up and down and walking is on grass or gravel path.

The descent from the top of the crag is safe if you stay away from the edge. There are some small rock steps but trees are available as handholds and the lower part of the path back to the crag base is on gravel.

DC

In reply to Trevers:

Tophet Wall (HS 4b) is really good, but also a bit of a hike to get to & from. Ditto Engineer's Slabs (VS 4c)

In reply to Trevers:

The approach to Black Crag is a steep walk through a wood. Ignore the alarmism: it's not a big deal, as there's a fairly decent path, but it's a good 25mins of uphill and downhill at 30 degrees and I'm sure it will be somewhat tortuous with a sore knee. The actual descent from the climb is fairly benign - easier than the approach. But, whilst most of it is fairly flat the last bit is probably 25 degrees in a wood with some loose rock. It's not awful, though. An abseil would be possible, but would take some thought... there's not an obvious established one accessible from TP.

Most of the routes on the roadside crags in Borrowdale have short, flattish approaches and can be abseiled, though some of the walk-off descents are steep and uneven - if short.

If the Black Crag approach sounds too much, don't bother with Tophet Wall, as it's more challenging. If you go the better way, up the Styhead Tarn path, it is an hour of steepish path, followed by 20mins of uneven but fairly level ground. However, it involves quite a bit of crossing 30 degree scree to get to the base of the climb, and then a descent down the scree - made shorter if you abseil.

Murray's Route is excellent on Dow, with a fairly level approach, but the last bit involves 10mins of chugging up steep scree. Unless you climb another route and top out, then walk the long way back down (a lot longer but fairly benign), you have to descend that scree too.

Engineers Slab is a schlep for anyone. Gillercombe Buttress, too - though the approach is apparently easier if you park at Honister, which may make these routes an option.

Long Scar (Wrynose) is great for single pitch in your grade range and not too onerous an approach/descent. It's up and down, but it's not sustained up and down.

Wallowbarrow (Duddon) is also a solid option. I would say for people without a knee injury that it's easier than Black Crag to approach/descend: if you manage to park at the farm, the approach is 15mins of gently uphill on a good path, followed by 5 mins picking your way up steeper ground up small paths. The descents are fairly short and mild for Lakes climbing descents, but still steepish and uneven. Less steep variants can usually be manufactured by walking a bit further as you descend to the left of the crag. Descending the gully to the right of the VDiffs/left of Paradise is fairly short and mild, but is quite steep. Sometimes friends resort to bum shuffling to get down short steps.

Hope that helps!

p.s. TPS is HVS, but TP is only solid S.

In reply to Trevers:

Esk Buttress perhaps? Walk in up Mosedale from Cockley Beck is long but fairly benign. The approach to the base of the crag is a scramble, and the walk off isn’t especially steep. Esk Buttress (Dow Crag)

In reply to Trevers:

Knee friendly approach and multipitch is a tricky combination in the lakes. Castle Rock of Triermain and  Esk Buttress (Dow Crag) maybe?

In reply to Trevers:

TP is not a bad walk-in by Lakes standards but it is still a rocky path with some steps (and maybe a stream-crossing? My memory is hazy). My friend fell on his arse a couple of times on the descent back down to the bottom of the crag. 

Shephers crag just up the road, however, is a very easy approach. I think the decent back down may have been a bit scrambly though. 

How are you with longer distances? Dow crag is a long walk-in but quite an easy path.

In reply to Trevers:

As mentioned previously Gillercombe Butress from Honister is probably a good option especially if you are carrying everything with you on the climb and descending to Honister afterwards. I'm a bit unsure about recommending it, but as you are at Honister and you didn't list loose as being a problem on the descent Buckstone Howe might be worth considering. The approach is short and flat and only the last short bit is across some scree, the descent isn't particularly steep but it is loose. On TP it should be ideal for what you want and the path should be fine and looks innocuous. There is something about the angle of the rocks and that they hold moisture under the trees that makes them really slippy. I have seen more people fall on their backsides here than anywhere else.  I suppose I'm saying, If the path is dry on the way up, you will be fine, if it is wet be really careful on the way down.

In reply to Trevers:

I'm a bit suprised to see reccommendations for routes on Gable and upper eskdale for a man with kneee problems. Yes you probably could argue that the approaaches and descents aren't really any rougher, but they are probably 3 times as long.

The descent from TP is often damp and slippery and unpleasant (possibly even dangerours) in rock shoes. Would be better if you carry approach shoes with you.

In Borrowdale Quayfoot butress and shepherds have much shorter walk in's but only really two or three pitch climbs. 

In reply to mountain.martin:

Read the OP again. Shepherd's is on a scree slope and the descent (unless you ab) is a deal-breaker.

Eskdale is a smooth bimble all the way in, apart from the giant bog.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

I wouldn't say the walk to upper esk butress with a climbing pack on is a smooth bimble all the way, but you have a point and I could have made my post clearer. 

The path along the bottom of shepherds is quite rough going even scrambly, but takes about 10 mins approach to most climbs. Even if taken slowly with walking poles should take no more than 20 mins to any of the routes. I would have thought 2hrs walk in and another 2hrs out, for esk butress would put a lot more strain on the knees overall. 

Up to the Op to decide if 30 - 40 mins round trip for shepherds including a few scrambly moves over boulders is preferable to a 4 hr round trip ove r mainly easier terain to Esk butress

In reply to mountain.martin:

Knees are funny things. If they're unstable or can do waking but not bending, which I think it's what the OP implies, it can be fine to go miles but a showstopper if there's a high step or a wobbly block. Mine aren't completely funted yet but I can relate.

Even scafell crag *might* be ok. It's a motorway up there to the base but then some of the routes are harder than others to access.

In reply to Trevers:

A lot of people here seem to be egging you onto the longest, rockiest approaches and descents in the Lake District.

There are plenty of crags that, if you carry your trainers up, have grassy, if circuitous descents. Gillercombe, already mentioned, Ravens Crag in Combe Gill and Eagle Crag Grisedale are good, although the later has a 4mile, flat walk in.

Wouldnt go anywhere near Great Gable in your current condition.

In reply to Trevers:

Troutdale Pinnacle approach & descent is steep and can be quite slippery.

Esk could work ok, but it is a long walk and can be quite boggy.

Gable isn't going to be ideal.

Dow, hmmm, if you go for topping out and walking across to the Walna Scar then maybe. But still going to pass steep sections in ascent and descent.

Castle Rock - although the routes are shorter (on the south side at least).

The Long Scar suggestion is good, albeit single pitch. The approach and descent are quite benign and it's a high mountain venue.

Gimmer is worth considering too. From NDG the approach is never steep, and there are abseil stations to ease the descent from the top of the crag.

Eagle crag in Grisedale is a good shout too. Great situation up there and pretty straightforward to get to.

In reply to Trevers:

Although the final part of the approach to Black Crag/TDP is steep, it is short by Lakes standards, and is on a path (albeit rocky and muddy in places) not up a massive scree slope or loose boulder field like some of the other Lakeland crags.   It's fine in approach shoes.  Maybe take trekking poles too.  You can leave them at the base of the crag with your sack.

Incidentally, I believe the fatal accident mentioned in the OP was someone falling from the narrow exit path at the top of the crag, which although almost flat is deceptively exposed, with the drop obscured by dense heather.   I think it was a simple trip or stumble on that path.

Of all the suggestions people have made, Wallowbarrow Crag is probably the most accessible, although all of these larger crags are going to have a degree of steepness in the approach or descent, and the Lakes doesn't have many roadside single pitch crags with flat approaches.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

A bit of a confusing recommendation! Esk Buttress is about 1hr 30 up the gorge, with a steep final approach to the crag, with climbing accessed by insecure and difficult scrambling and a steep and tricky descent from the climbing. Although full of charms, I found it to be one of the most complex crags in the Lakes to approach. The scrambling to reach the proper climbing was particularly hair-raising.

Tbh, it's not really clear what the OP wants. But, I know plenty of people who would end up with sore knees after a day lugging gear up and back from Esk Buttress. Black Crag is a stroll compared to this.
 

In reply to Trevers:

There are a collection of worthwhile single pitch routes at Severe to VS at Woden's Face, which is about a 5 minute walk from the Bowderstone car park, along a path so flat and well made you could take a pushchair along it 

I can't remember anything about the descent off the crag, but it's probably about as benign as you will get in the Lakes.

In reply to CathS:

There is abseil station set up,  from a large tree  (that was is good condition last week)  or a walk down that isn't easy but no worse than Shepherds or TP. 

Quayfoot Buttress would also offer an easy approach and abseil option from the same carpark, but both the climbs and descent are a bit more challenging.

In reply to Trevers:

Others have beaten me to it, but I’d also suggest Gillercombe Buttress approached from Honister. The approach is steep to start with, then you can loop around in a leftward arc over easy grassy terrain. The last bit along the crag foot might be a bit more awkward. Take your sack up the route and walk out over Grey Knotts to join the path that takes you to the top of the quarry tramway incline; ignore the steep direct path. Descending the incline will be the worst bit, but not too bad. As you may know, it’s a great day out, includes a summit and some lovely grassy “no path” strolling with wonderful Lakeland views, and an easy day for a lady, as someone once said.