Ticks!!!

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 tew 28 May 2023

Managed to pick up a tick at Wintors Leap yesterday.

Hopefully this little **** hasn't given me Lyme's like the last couple.

Be careful

2
 climberchristy 28 May 2023
In reply to tew:

Yeh I picked up 4 (found so far!) at  Raven's Scar. They're definitely out in force.

 TomYoung 28 May 2023
In reply to tew:

Lots at Curbar as well when I've been recently.

 Paul Evans 29 May 2023
In reply to tew:

Just finished a couple of days backpacking in Torridon / Fisherfield where lots of ticks have been reported. Sprayed my shoes, socks, pants & doorway of tent / footprint with permethrin. Nary a tick. Worth a try. 

Paul 

 ollie1 29 May 2023
In reply to tew:

At blackchurch  Blackchurch on the beach slabs at the top I got a few ticks and think got lymes from one of them. Got the bullseye rash but took a course of doxy which has hopefully caught it in time. 

 wiwwim 29 May 2023
In reply to Paul Evans:

careful doing this with DEET though! Will dissolve plastics.

 Duncan Bourne 29 May 2023
In reply to tew:

Forgot about these little bugger when up the Roaches at the weekend. Fortunately I didn't get any but I have in the past.

1
 echo34 29 May 2023

EX4 your trousers - haven’t had a single one this year 

 robertcreer 29 May 2023
In reply to Paul Evans:

Got at least 15 off of me today in Glen Nevis but only one had actually attached got the rest while they were walking on me. Partner had a similar amount

 Grahame N 30 May 2023
In reply to tew:

A friend of my daughters had 109 ticks (not all attached!) at the weekend, while at climbing at Carnmor I think.  Ticks aren't too bad as they're easily seen and removed, midgies are much much worse in my opinion.

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 timparkin 30 May 2023
In reply to Grahame N:

> A friend of my daughters had 109 ticks (not all attached!) at the weekend, while at climbing at Carnmor I think.  Ticks aren't too bad as they're easily seen and removed, midgies are much much worse in my opinion.

Midges don't give you potentially life-altering illnesses... 

2
In reply to tew:

The tick season has started in Sweden as well. Removed four after a climbing trip to Gothenburg and Kullaberg last weekend.

When in Gothenburg we noticed the midges too. Not too many, though. Yet…

 Grahame N 30 May 2023
In reply to timparkin:

> Midges don't give you potentially life-altering illnesses... 

Of course, Lyme disease is infinitely worse than midge bites.

Sorry, I meant that midges are worse than ticks in terms of getting a days rock climbing. There has been many a day when I've had to abandon a crag due to midges, but never due to ticks.

4
 montyjohn 30 May 2023
In reply to Grahame N:

That's the issue with ticks, you don't even realise you're being bitten.

My kids get ticks all the time just playing in the garden. I'm keeping the grass super short this year in the hope that the sun fries all the little sh!ts.

 henwardian 30 May 2023
In reply to tew:

you're all softies down south. Last few times I went off prospecting for new crags in the NW there were 50 to 100 on each leg of my trousers. My protip: tuck your trousers into your socks and take a roll of parcel tape with you, lifting off dozens individually is too time-consuming, much quicker with a length of tape.

1
 Toerag 01 Jun 2023
In reply to montyjohn:

> That's the issue with ticks, you don't even realise you're being bitten.

> My kids get ticks all the time just playing in the garden. I'm keeping the grass super short this year in the hope that the sun fries all the little sh!ts.

Good plan, they can't cope with dehydration. What do you think is the host animal(s) that's putting them in the garden, can you get rid of that?

 climbingpixie 01 Jun 2023
In reply to Grahame N:

I've just got back from a few days at Carnmore and can confirm that the ticks there are horrendous! They were bad enough at the bothy but scrambling up through the heather on the approach and through the middle section was even worse as they were crawling up my arms as well as my legs. I lost count of how many I've had - it was definitely worth taking the tweezers!

 alan moore 01 Jun 2023
In reply to climbingpixie:

Picked up my first ever tick at Carnmor. Had never heard of such a thing and thought I was going to die; the distance from civilisation only adding drama to the situation.

Now, 40 years and thousands of tick bites later, it's starting to get scary again!

 BusyLizzie 01 Jun 2023
In reply to henwardian:

That sounds horrendous.

I found a large tick just beginning to attach itself to my arm while in Arran last week.

 Andy Moles 02 Jun 2023
In reply to climbingpixie:

> I've just got back from a few days at Carnmore and can confirm that the ticks there are horrendous!

Likewise (guessing we met you at the cowshed.)

They're still turning up, I found yet another bastard nymph under my arm this morning.

Though I pretty much assume that whenever I brush through long grass/bracken/heather anywhere in the west Highlands I'm going to pick some up. They're just unbelievably ubiquitous. Why, when so many species are threatened with extinction, does it have to be one of the worst ones that's doing so well?

What fascinates me about ticks is how some people hardly seem to get them (or even notice that there are 40 on their trouserlegs, never mind the ones that find a way in). I'm an absolute magnet, but I know some people who go similar places and almost never get a bite. I'm certain it's nothing to do with covering up or other tactics. Are ticks really so discerning about the taste of who they bite?

 Andy Moles 02 Jun 2023
In reply to echo34:

What is EX4?

(Apart from a postcode in Exeter)

 plyometrics 02 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

Just found my first of the year. Was at Woodwell on Wednesday so suspect that might have been where I picked the little git up. 

 wiwwim 02 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

After I remove a tick I try and dab a little iodine povidone on the bite in the hope that it kills the spirochete bacteria.  Unfortunately iodine is difficult to get hold of for humans now, but you can buy a bottle for use with horses.

Saw this on the net which supports this:

Tick removal 1. Remove tick immediately once found (do NOT squish tick) a. Grasp tick as close to skin with a pair of sanitized tweezers • Use protected fingers if tweezers are unavailable b. Slowly and steadily pull tick straight out, and remove mouthparts that break off c. Clean wound with soap and water d. Apply mild antiseptic • Rubbing alcohol or povidone-iodine

 PaulJepson 02 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

They're unlikely to give you Lyme if you get them off properly and quick enough - that's the message people should really focus on.

They only really start to regurgitate (gross) when they're full, which is typically 24-36 hours after they have attached. That's why I would urge anyone going out on multi-day excursions to have a removal tool in their first aid kit (they're tiny and weigh about a gram).

Get them off as soon as you find them.

I prefer the twister tools over tweezers as they're less likely to cut and leave bits of the tick in you (infection) or squeeze the dirty bugger so it voms in you (lyme). 

I bought a secondhand dryer last year after some I picked up at curbar stayed in my clothes through a wash and got me the next time I wore them as well. 

I'd recommend a permethrin treated pair of trousers, specifically for journeys into tick territory, which you avoid washing as much as possible.

Also bear in mind that permethrin is damaging to some aquatic life, so don't go in rivers in them.

 Tom Guitarist 02 Jun 2023

I got my first ever tick yesterday, think it was probably on the grassy ascent of the back of The Cobbler, did Beinn Ime too but it's unlikely that I got one there. Hopefully got it off intact, would be on for about 5 hours tops. I was wearing long trousers and it was on my knee ffs

 ianstevens 02 Jun 2023
In reply to Andy Moles:

> Likewise (guessing we met you at the cowshed.)

> They're still turning up, I found yet another bastard nymph under my arm this morning.

> Though I pretty much assume that whenever I brush through long grass/bracken/heather anywhere in the west Highlands I'm going to pick some up. They're just unbelievably ubiquitous. Why, when so many species are threatened with extinction, does it have to be one of the worst ones that's doing so well?

1. Climate change suits them.

2. Dumping sheep all over the hills means that a) vegetation is kept in a manner suitable for ticks, and provides them with lots of food.

3. Perception, via online forums such as this, and increased people in the hills.

 Holdtickler 02 Jun 2023

Not sure if it's been mentioned upthread but, as of this year, it has been found that some UK ticks now carry another serious illness as well; Tick-borne encephalitis (TBE).

I read somewhere that there was a hopeful new strategy that could effectively wipe out Lyme. I think it involved some kind of genetic modification and the plan was to let nature take care of the logistics by spreading the new dominant trait. My memory is hazy though and I can't remember where I read about it.

edit: typo

Post edited at 09:37
 Dave Garnett 02 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

I'm not aware of ever having been bitten by a tick, despite taking zero countermeasures and regularly wading about in deep heather and bracken at many of the places mentioned on here.

Maybe I don't generate enough butyric acid to interest them.  Or just taste horrible to ticks.  I do get horribly bitten by harvest mites though - or, at least, I react strongly to their bites after being inoculated so often. 

 timparkin 02 Jun 2023
In reply to PaulJepson:

> Also bear in mind that permethrin is damaging to some aquatic life, so don't go in rivers in them.

As far as I'm aware, once dried and on clothing, it doesn't come off again (I can't find any info for rivers). 

People should also be aware that the liquid is very dangerous for cats, like a nerve agent but OK once dried on. 

 dinodinosaur 02 Jun 2023
In reply to Andy Moles:

I've only had one tick bite in my life so far despite never really making much effort to stop them (This was in the moelwyns). Other friends seem to be magnets for ticks.

1
 dinodinosaur 02 Jun 2023
In reply to Dave Garnett:

I also get ravaged by midges though, any small bite will come up in a lump.

 Lankyman 02 Jun 2023
In reply to dinodinosaur:

> I've only had one tick bite in my life so far despite never really making much effort to stop them (This was in the moelwyns).

I got bit in the moelwyns once. Nearly as bad as when I got bit in the Trossachs.

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 fenski 02 Jun 2023
In reply to Holdtickler:

There is a vaccine for that (just had it). Not sure if it's effective for lyme disease though. 

 climbingpixie 02 Jun 2023
In reply to Andy Moles:

Yes, we saw you there on Mon/Tues. Hope you had a good trip, despite frustrations with your partner's project (and the random invasion of teenagers!).

> They're still turning up, I found yet another bastard nymph under my arm this morning.

To my absolute horror, I've just removed one from underneath my eye!! I can only assume it had stowed away in my sleeping bag and crawled onto my face while I was napping earlier 

 Andy Moles 02 Jun 2023
In reply to climbingpixie:

Yeah, they often seem to bide their time and bite two days later, the devious little shits (the ticks, not the teenagers, who actually seemed very nice, but like the ticks there were simply too many of them...)

 nufkin 03 Jun 2023
In reply to Lankyman:

> I got bit in the moelwyns once. Nearly as bad as when I got bit in the Trossachs.

The worst are the ones that lurk between the moelwyns and the Trossachs that you don't notice for several days till you find a surprising lump in the shower

 cwarby 03 Jun 2023
In reply to wiwwim:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/PETS-BUDDY-Remover-Horses-Humans/dp/B0B69ZQ11D/ref...

These are better than tweezers; I carry them for us or the dog. Slide between skin and tick body, carefully pull and twist at the same time. It pops out. If doing at home, hold a cup nearby so it doesn't fall off into a carpet.

 Fiona Reid 03 Jun 2023
In reply to PaulJepson:

Not sure I agree. Latest course of doxy was after a skin reaction where I didn't even find the tick. It bit me and fell off in less than 12 hours, based on time between seeing my legs in the shower or dressing etc. Tell tale itchy pimple left by it and an impressive skin reaction 8 days later. 3rd time in 3 years and most likely acquired walking or running around Dingwall or Evanton so not even in the hills. 

3 weeks of doxy later I'm fine but still very sensitive to sunlight, a pain in the backside with the good weather but infinitly preferable to Lyme. 

Post edited at 20:45
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 Fiona Reid 03 Jun 2023
In reply to fenski:

Nope, the TBE vaccine does nothing for Lyme.

Just had my first 2 doses of the TBE vaccine with final one in the autumn. You can get it privately via a pharmacy travel clinic at about 60 quid a jab. You need 3 for full cover and booster every 3 years. 

Figured given the number of bites I get here despite trousers, gaiters, repellent etc (I'm travelling somewhere it is very common in the summer) it's small money compared to the life changing consequences of a TBE infection. 

 Fiona Reid 03 Jun 2023
In reply to Andy Moles:

> Are ticks really so discerning about the taste of who they bite?

Definitely, they like some folks better than others. Other half gets about 1/10th the number I get. We both wear trousers, gaiter, repellent. They just like me much better. I've a mate they like even more than me though. 

I've had 100s of bites since 2006. I've had 4 courses of doxycycline over the years now. 2 where I felt weird several weeks after bites and 2 with skin reactions. GPs in my area (Highlands) take no chances. Lyme is way too common up here. Doxy has some delightful side effects (nausea, dicky guts, mega photosensitivity anyone?) but it's a lot better than life changing systemic Lyme. 

 Holdtickler 03 Jun 2023

I'd just like to address a common misconception with Lyme that many of you probably already know about but for those who don't...

It's about the ring rash. If you get the rash then it is a very clear indicator and you should certainly seek medical advice as soon as you can to get treatment as it is very likely you've got it at that point.

On the flipside however, if you don't get the rash, that unfortunately doesn't necessarily mean that you didn't get it as it is possible to get Lyme and never get the rash at all.

The rash is such an obvious symptom that sometimes people rely on it when to do so can be risky. Bottom line, if you've had recent bites and/or you've been places where you are likely to get them and feel unwell with other symptoms, get checked out! Last thing you want to do is miss it and end up with a nasty chronic illness.

 Holdtickler 03 Jun 2023
In reply to Holdtickler:

Short version - The ring rash, Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...

 J72 05 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

My son (8) is a magnet for them - on one trip in Assynt last year he had about thirty, half attached.  I had four.  Over the weekend in Glen Nevis he had three or four, I had none.  On the drive home the Radiohead song ‘We. Suck young blood’ made me smile.  Maybe the nicotine in my system puts them off.

if you are anywhere ticks may be, a tick remover (as suggested above) is so small and light it would be ridiculous not to take one.  It makes removal so easy and much safer and costs usually less than a fiver.

 Robert Durran 05 Jun 2023
In reply to Andy Moles:

> Are ticks really so discerning about the taste of who they bite?

Yes. I can get none with no precautions while people I am with get covered in them despite being paranoid. But I do get a few sometimes, so I have decided against complacency and now use permethrin from the knees down and repellent on bare legs and midriff (this is where the odd bite I do get tends to be).

 Michael Hood 05 Jun 2023
In reply to Dave Garnett:

I'm in your cohort, never had a tick on me as far as I know and I'm frequently stumbling about in the Lakes where they do hang around by all accounts. No idea why, the only precaution I take is to try and avoid brushing against bracken and to wear long trousers if I do have to brush against it and to keep my arms up if the bracken's tall.

I do worry that I might have missed the little critters because lack of experience meant I didn't recognise them.

I had a theory that first person walking "through" is less likely to get them, whereas they've "woken up" for any following person (and I'm usually solo) but others on here have debunked that.

I have a stupid unreasonable "superstition" that as soon as I buy a tick removal tool I'll start to pick them up (just sod's law really) and I am definitely not prepared to test whether I'm merely naturally repellent (to ticks) by wandering naked🤣 or semi-naked 😂 through a known tick infested area.

 montyjohn 05 Jun 2023
In reply to Toerag:

> Good plan, they can't cope with dehydration. What do you think is the host animal(s) that's putting them in the garden, can you get rid of that?

Foxes and deer mainly. Seen the odd badger and lots of squirrels. Basically the entire cast of  Animals of Farthing Wood. Quite how the deer get in is a bit of a mystery. If I open the house door they scramble over a 4ft panel fence rather ungracefully. What draws them in in the first place is anyone's guess.

The ticks are tiny and I believe they are deer ticks, so the deer by association of name only are the ones I'm blaming. Foxes might spread deer ticks, no idea (not a deer joke).

 timparkin 05 Jun 2023
In reply to montyjohn:

> Foxes and deer mainly. Seen the odd badger and lots of squirrels. Basically the entire cast of  Animals of Farthing Wood. Quite how the deer get in is a bit of a mystery. If I open the house door they scramble over a 4ft panel fence rather ungracefully. What draws them in in the first place is anyone's guess.

> The ticks are tiny and I believe they are deer ticks, so the deer by association of name only are the ones I'm blaming. Foxes might spread deer ticks, no idea (not a deer joke). 

Deer ticks have a lifecycle that includes vole, mice and other small mammals (and even birds!)

This means that in older houses, ticks might be entering where mice can get in.

https://www.colonialpest.com/2015/07/29/what-do-mice-in-yard-have-to-do-wit...

In reply to montyjohn:

Plenty of ways for ticks to be carried into gardens with wildlife including the squirrels that you mention in your garden.
I’ve got photos of ticks on Red squirrel and small birds (eg Dunnock) that were seen in known tick areas. 
Edit: I’ve resorted to using Ex4 on trousers legs and smidge on legs as even with bird watching I’ve been picking up ticks just from waking tracks and paths. Nothing like the number picked up with climbing or hill walking though.

Post edited at 11:07
 PATTISON Bill 06 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

Spraying with Skin so soft from Avon is pretty effective ,cheap and does your skin no harm.

8
 TobyA 06 Jun 2023
In reply to cwarby:

> These are better than tweezers; I carry them for us or the dog. 

I've got those ones and found they don't work very well at all for getting small ticks off me. Personally I've found these tick tweezers way more successful. https://www.boots.com/life-systems-tick-tweezers-10257920 

 J72 06 Jun 2023
In reply to TobyA:

There’s a bit of a knack to it for the small ticks (nymphs) - I’ve just about cracked it after far too many removals! I used to use tweezers but an acquaintance who works in public health was quite anti-tweezer because it can apparently squeeze the tick regurgitating the blood meal and increasing likelihood of lyme disease transmission.

no idea in the evidence base to back that up though 

 Toerag 07 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

Does anyone use a 'tick card'? I have one of these 'Zeckenkarte' I bought in Germany. It's worked fine for the couple of ticks and nymphs I've had but I wondered how anyone with more experience rates them? Mine did break, I kept it in my wallet and it got bent and cracked.

https://www.dm.de/aeroxon-zeckenkarte-p4027600104408.html

 stani 07 Jun 2023
In reply to Toerag:

Same happened to mine, it just broke in my wallet. I wouldnt buy one again. 

 jezb1 07 Jun 2023
In reply to PATTISON Bill:

> Spraying with Skin so soft from Avon is pretty effective ,cheap and does your skin no harm.

Good myth that, sadly.

 PaulJepson 07 Jun 2023
In reply to timparkin:

I've seen a good trick for dealing with that. At some shelters in the US they soaked something resembling cotton wool with permethrin. Mice gather this for the nest, bish bash bosh, any ticks they're carrying are instantly killed. 

 GDes 07 Jun 2023

Has anyone got recommendations for spray to use on legs/clothing?  I've looked at a few on amazon, but am highly suspicious of anything labelled "natural"...

 matt1984 07 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

Took one off my son (7) back last night, possibly picked up around Simonside, Northumberland this weekend.

It came off easy enough with the lifesystems tick card, which I've always found super easy to use, the a wipeover with antibacterial wipes.

https://www.lifesystems.co.uk/products/insect-repellents/tick-removal-tool

 Kean 07 Jun 2023
In reply to Grahame N:

That beats my record of 77 during a wild walk in a remote area of the Dolomites

 KA 07 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

I carry a lint roller when walking through tick likely terrain and roll myself down every so often. Seems to work pretty well. 

Permethrin sounds good, but I think it's pretty nasty for the environment, especially aquatic life. 

Post edited at 20:33
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 NathanP 07 Jun 2023
In reply to David Barlow:

Just back from Knoydart and Skye without a single tick, though my companions had multiple bites each day. Not sure whether this happy situation was down to TX4 soaking my trousers, socks, boots and tent door or ticks just not liking me.

In reply to jezb1:

> Good myth that, sadly.

There’s a claim here that it is of some use against mosquitos: https://bcmj.org/articles/mosquito-repellent-effectiveness-placebo-controll...

I thought I’d see a similar experiment for midges but can’t find it. 

 jezb1 07 Jun 2023
In reply to Thugitty Jugitty:

I'd double check this fact, but I believe they've changed the formula since then.

 TobyA 07 Jun 2023
In reply to jezb1:

> I'd double check this fact, but I believe they've changed the formula since then.


That's what I heard on US radio show some years ago. They actually started adding some basic insect repellent to the original recipe because so many people were buying it for that, when it was never designed for that and Avon didn't think it was actually doing anything beyond placebo effect.

2
 CurlyStevo 07 Jun 2023
In reply to tew:

smidge is supposed to help against ticks also deet. Personally I try and always apply a natural one and so far the last 4 years not had a tick stick (in scotland) but found a few crawling so it could be working, but I don't get many anyway and those I do find in the past are always flat and unhappy looking. I'm poison!

Post edited at 23:35
 CurlyStevo 07 Jun 2023
In reply to Tom Guitarist:

tuck your trousers in to yr socks!

 CurlyStevo 07 Jun 2023
In reply to TobyA:

Skinsosoft has citronella in which is a mild insecticide also the oil makes for an unfavourable landing spot. That said I don't rate it

 arose 08 Jun 2023
In reply to echo34:

Totally.  I work in the outdoors and have sprayed my kit and shoes with EX4 this year.  no ticks despite a lot of days of climbing work and a bunch of sea kayak expeditions (over 20 nights in tents this spring).  

 arose 08 Jun 2023
In reply to GDes:

EX4 from lifesystems works

 Ryan23 08 Jun 2023
In reply to GDes:

Smidge works for skin, never had a tick when I've remembered to put it on. Al.ost always get some when I forget

 Offwidth 08 Jun 2023
In reply to CurlyStevo:

I have no idea what was in the original stuff I used decades back but it definitely worked very well. None of the versions I've tried since worked, albeit Ive not tried any in the last decade.

As for what Toby reported from Avon, I can't see how it's possible to have a true placebo effect with midge repellent.

 CurlyStevo 09 Jun 2023
In reply to Offwidth:

I bought some SSS woodland fresh around 15 years ago and it was Ok for mild  to moderate amounts of midgies, but once they were getting determined it didn't really do enough.

 Neil Morrison 09 Jun 2023
In reply to J72: needs to be this this type of tweezers to avoid the regurgitation. Very effective in my experience https://www.boots.com/life-systems-tick-tweezers-10257920?cm_mmc=bmm-buk-go...

 scrubby 10 Jun 2023
In reply to timparkin:

Deer are the main culprits everfywhere. Never had a tick in the central lakes (Langdale), as there are no deer: plenty in Swindale and the eastern lakes, where there are. They love the wooded limestone of northwest Lancashire and S Cumbria. Rested both hands on top of Warton Upper once, saw ticks on each digit. No natural predator for deer, and plenty imported in the south of the UK, Muntjacs, and others.

Warm winters also not killing the ticks off enough.

Agree with someone above that if pulled or twisted off before about 36 hours you should be OK, and as it takes 24 hrs ish for delayed hypersensitivity to cause the red itchy spot, you look at every one then!

A friend has this TBE, after he returned from Austria, where it is well known and where vaccination is freely available. As it is not treatable with ABs this means it it is probably caused by a virus. Probably also going to spread north with our warming planet.

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