UKH

Went there today, weather was ideal and it was in great condition.

Some venue beta which might be useful...

You can cut the approach time to 60 mins by cutting straight up the hillside just after going over the stream below Jacob's Ladder (actually you then go back over the stream, up a steep rib on a faint path and then cut across the hillside below Crowden Towers). Hard work and probably only applicable in the very dry. Also not sure it'd be fun in descent with a bouldering mat (I came back the long way round).

Did the Rockfax green circuit - the 2 hardest problems are both graded V0- 4b, everything harder is actually easier

Have an idea about how you are going to get down BEFORE you go up the problems, especially if you're doing the easiest problem on a block. You might think I know this by now but it appears I still needed a salutary lesson

Treat the rock with care, if these boulders were at say Stanage, they'd be hyper-trashed by now.

Those of us who care about the place on the BMC guidebook team decided not to detail them at all. None of the problems are worth the hike in any case (unlike most listed and unlisted moorland bouldering I know of), they are all scrittly and showing signs of wear that wasn't there before the Rockfax guide came out. Some of the grading is the most shameless I've seen anywhere, including V2 for a VD cleft.   I'd recommend the normal Crowden Clough path approach... it's easy to lose time and go a bit off route slogging up steep grass without a clear target.

I can well believe that, afraid I only got there because of the Rockfax green circuit

I think any rock erosion is slightly dwarfed by the path erosion which is horrendous. I've not been up on Kinder for maybe 40 years and had no memory of the erosion (or at the time much appreciation about it).

Wish I'd known about the V2, didn't think to look that far above my puntering

Are you on the BMC guidebook team? I didn't know.

He doesn't like to talk about it.

Yes  I'm an extensive BMC guidebook volunteer and have been for nearly two decades. I've also significantly helped on YMC grit guides.

The YMC grit guides are great and make for a good read, though you'll need a Sherpa to get one to the crag! I wish they'd consider updating the Limestone definitive though, finding the start to Mulatto wall was tricky to say the least.

Both volumes are under a kilo; hopefully a bit below the need for a porter and its pretty much all single pitch so you don't need to climb with them. Rockfax Eastern grit is heavier, not that weight for grit matters. Some people prefer skeleton guides (even pared back to just a topo) but my view was the opposite: a key reason I was so happy to be involved is the book will inspire and inform at home as much as guide on the crag. Another is the route and bouldering mix I love is made for Yorkshire grit. I'm obviously biased but think they are things of beauty and superlative quality designed to do 'gods own rock' true justice.

I think it is really sad that these delicate and unique features are in any guidebook.  At least the walk in deters the crowds.

Presumably you are talking about the Woolpacks where I agree (mainly as the rock is so delicate).

Back in Yorkshire, there is plenty of wild bouldering stuff not in these guides or not fully detailed and not so much really new stuff in terms of areas.  This sensitive treatment includes no problem descriptions for the Bridestones, for environmental reasons, due to past damage (from mainly local climbers). Generally the less popular half of routes actually need more traffic to keep them clean, not less. We also used hollow stars to indicate classics that will probably need a clean most years. 

I don't subscribe to huge classic areas only being known to secretive local cabals.

I didn't even know that. Thanks, Offwidth!

The Bridestones in Dalby Forest? these are in the guidebook I have...

I think you're seeing what you want to see here, as opposed to what is likely the case in reality. Whilst I'm aware that not everyone logs their ascents on UKC, over 30,000+ people do, and the number registering ascents at the Woolpacks is minimal. In fact, I can't think of a single person I know that's been up there since the publication of the guide?!

It seems to me that your assertion is like those people that say how polished Malham is getting. Yes, it's polished, but if you speak to the first ascentionists it's always been polished. I'm pretty sure the same could be said for the Woolpacks, insofar as they've always, and will always be scrittly, and worn, but it's more likely from people messing about in trainers/walking boots, because it's walkers + families that are up there in droves - not climbers.

Either way, the Woolpacks will - irrespective of whichever guides they are/aren't in - unpopular because a) they're a long way from the road b) people don't like walking that much and c) despite the fact they look great, they're actually a bit crap. If someone does go, which it's unlikely they will, it's almost guaranteed they'll never go back.

I certainly can't see them dissolving before the next ice age...

Have you been there yourself before and after Rob? Martin and I were worried (having pottered and seen how soft the rock was) and said so publicly and lobbied for the Woolpacks not to be included, including formally at the Peak Area BMC meeting.  We went up on publication and have monitored on and off since. There was soon visible damage on some newly listed low grade slab  problems that was never there before:  the grey surface showed scratching and softer orange matrix rock had become visible in places even with the inevitable low volume of traffic. Only a minority of the problems are badly affected and yes some of the clefts and easy ways up and down had damage before, but it's there and visible and almost certainly due to your guidebook.

I've consistently posted on this subject. Part of our concern is that the Woolpacks is close to a major path and very popular with photographers and orange scars appearing on problems that are basically shit was never going to do the enviromental reputation of climbers any good. You know full well I'm not not anti-Rockfax (unlike many definitive guidebook workers who dislike Rockfax and some who hate Alan and his company)

No, the ones between Burnley and Todmorden.

Ooh, strong stuff. Nasty word ‘hate’. I suspect the number isn’t as great as you might think however I am sure there are a few.

I have often wondered which particular evil deed they hate the most since I can't work it out myself.

FYI the Woolpacks will not be in the next print edition of Rockfax Peak Bouldering.

Alan

As I said above, I only went there because there's a green circuit in the RF guide so "my" erosion is partly RF's fault. However I can't imagine that I'll ever get back there. Nice experience on a lovely day but no individually superlative problems.

Having said all that, the RF Peak Bouldering guide is the first one that's made me get into bouldering (to some extent). And the reason for that is simple, enough "easy" problems (I'm working my way through the green circuits ).

A guide full of V4 and upwards is basically useless to punters like me - then get better - I'm trying

Incidentally, does anyone know what the problem Nertsery Crack (f3+) is doing at V0- 4b ???

I did some quite obscure manoeuvres to get on the top, not really anything crack like.

The Rockfax Peak Bouldering guide is indeed a quality volume for the lower grade boulderer. A few problems are weirdly graded but the main thing that bugs me is the inclusion of some solos of routes as green bouldering highballs that could get lower grade boulderers into real trouble. Via Media is a classic example given V0 4c without even a heart flutter symbol. 

Thanks for your comments and glad you like the circuits. This was what we were hoping for when we made them. 

Many of the problems were being documented for the first time by Adrian and myself so the grades could be a bit iffy in places. If you use the UKC Logbook feedback and voting then that is the best place to lodge comments so that we can improve the circuits next time.

Alan