UKH

Hi

I forgot to pay at Plantation today, on arrival back at the car I noticed I'd recieved a £25 fine, rising to £50 if not paid within 14 days.

I was wondering about the legality of it though, I went back to the ticket machine and couldn't see any warnings about parking fines etc... Which i thought had to be present for fines to be issued.

I'll pay and I think private parking fines are now enforceable anyway, but has anyone got any input on the legality of the fine please?

Forgot? 

Bad luck (guess you won't next time!)

Pretty sure that car park is operated by the National Park, so they are statutory penalties with legal basis, not just invoices (and that doesn't require the same signage).  I assume it says Penalty Charge Notice on it, not Parking Charge Notice or similar?  If so best cough up.

I think the warning signs etc are only the case for private parking fines. If it's the national park that have issued it they are a government department and I would assume have the same powers as a local council. 

It's a pay and display, isn't it ?

£25....that’s a lot,  only cost me £4.75 for all day today!  ;-p

That car park is definitely a PDNPA car park. As they are a government body, the fines count, I think. 

Have they started accepting notes/cards/pay by phone? Fines were in the smallprint last time I was there but there was no way to pay so I had to go park on the verge

I got fined in March, this is what I posted at the time. The machine wasn't working a couple of weeks ago, so they must have fixed it presumably.

That's what I always thought, but the tickets that were issued were Penalty Charge Notices by Parksmarter on behalf of Derbyshire County Council as the Enforcement Authority, and as far as I can tell they are legally enforceable.

There's a massive sign next to the ticket machine with both the charges on it and the fine print about fines. I'm certain of it, because a couple of months ago I remember reading it and thinking 'huh, I thought it was a NT car park...'.

Yea its a 'penalty'. It just threw me that the Ticket had 'Park Smart' at the top, so i figured it was a private company thus nore signage/legal text needed to be visible in the car park.

Cheers

Michael

Cheers, fortunately not too much of an expensive mistake for me.

Side question: do the council have any legal powers to fine or stop people parking on the verge immediately outside of the car park? Because if they don't, or if they don't enforce any that they do...

It'd be nice to see a bit of the Roaches approach in the eastern Peak - the parking stupidity has been insane this summer.

A cycled past the plantation car park mid-week at the end of September. The verge opposite was full, despite large and clear signage, whilst the car park was almost empty. I remember wondering why vehicles parked illegally hadn't been ticketed. Surely this is public land and thus the local authority can issue a parking ticket in the form of a Penalty Charge Notice there, too?

PS - I took part in a club-sponsored litter pick at Black Rocks today - and duly paid  £1.60 for the privilege. Again, it was difficult to miss the large number of vehicles parked along the bottom approach road in way that could prevent emergency vehicles from accessing (bearing in mind the low bridge at the top).

I forgot the Dartford Crossing charge once. I was braced for a fine, but the notice said that as it was a first time, the charge was waived if I coughed up the £2.50. V. impressed

A lot of cars were ticketed at the roaches today. They have wardens on patrol all day rather than the early afternoon van visit now. 

The people in the tea shop say its being ticketed everyday and they will fine if you are slightly overlapping a bay. There is £2 a day parking in the field next to the tea shop so no reason to get fined.

Mike, worth getting the annual pass, 40 quid covers 18 car parks in the peak I think.

cheers

Mark

Even if the "fine" is a legally enforceable penalty charge notice I'm pretty sure that there is a requirement for correct signage indicating what parking charges apply and the penalty for failing to comply with those charges/rules. This could be a sign at or near the entrance not necessarily next to the machine although that is the usual location.  I would appeal if you are certain no such signs exist. The "clock" is put on hold if you appeal so even if unsuccessful you will still get a chance to pay at the discounted rate.

I use to have a stick up for Stanage sticker but barely used the plantation carpark when I had it, and since that scheme ended i think I've been there once, maybe twice.
Though thinking on it, if that pass covers Millstone/suprise view it could be worth it.
I'll look into it.

Cheers

Best strategy is probably to simply bin it and forget about it. I doubt they'll go to much trouble to enforce a £50 fine because it will cost them more than the fine itself. You'll probably get some threatening letters for a while because computer generated letters don't cost much to send.

Incidentally I've heard stories in the past of climbers taking out the ticket machine at Stanage and elsewhere because they're so outraged at being forced to pay. Maybe that will happen again if they start fining people for not paying.

This is absolutely terrible advice.

If it is a Council fine, a Penalty Charge Notice, then it is enforceable and continuing to ignore will rapidly end up with bailiffs on your doorstep carrying court papers.

If it is a privately issued Parking Charge Notice then it is not a fine at all.  It is an invoice, nothing more.  However, by parking, they claim that you have agreed to the contract on the signage and will generally pursue you.  The Protections of Freedom Act 2012 allows these firms to transfer the liability for the invoice from the driver (who parked and agreed to the contract) to the registered keeper.  Protracted ignoring of their paperwork will eventually find you summoned to a Small Claims Court, where a binding CCJ can be issued.

I don't know which of these the OP has; the rather reasonable sum of £25 suggests the former.  Private PCNs generally start at £60 these days.

If it is a Council PCN then it is still contestable, if their signage truly isn't up to scratch, but that is fairly unlikely.  

If it's a private PCN then it is far more challengeable.  They generally fail miserably to comply with the strict requirements of PoFA2012.

Either way, the OP is asking on the wrong forum.  You'll get decent advice from PePiPoo.

The worse place for people getting tickets is outside the tearoom. If it was my place I'd put stones on the grass verge to stop people as majority are going in their business. Once one parks out of the bay they all do. I used to warn people if I saw them in their car, I only do now if I see they are climbers. 

Agreed.

Other place with good advice is money saving expert.

At Roseberry Topping in Yorkshire, there's a large and good enclosed car park (no barriers) which costs a couple of quid for a couple of hours. It is NEVER full - I've never seen it full on numerous visits. But loads of (often 10 or more cars) cheapskate drivers / walkers or whoever park outside on the narrow main road - a hazard to traffic. And that couple of quid parking fee is used to maintain the toilets and car park. Why do the cheapskates park outside?? A lot of flash cars there, they don't look short of money

OK rant over

Absolutely not.  Because it was issued by a statutory body, this is a penalty with legal basis, not a speculative invoice.  Ignore it and a CCJ (or worse) will be the end result (and the attendant problems getting credit etc).

What's wrong with having to pay to rent a piece of land on which to place your car?  Why should it be free?

The only thing I dislike about paying for parking as a thing, really, is scrabbling for change.  Does that one take card yet, or have a mobile payment facility?  If not they do need to sort that.  Or reinstate the Stanage Sticker!

Still cash only. I over stayed there this weekend as didn’t have quite enough change to get to 4hrs but the saw the ticket inspector when I got down and he was fine with that. A card sceptical g machine would be a great help, most others seem to have them now (surprise view etc). 
 

Where does the money go? Is it to a pot for park in general, the North Lees Estate or the general council pot? People might be more inclined to pay if they knew what the money went to?

I totally agree. I'd rather see people on the verges ticketed than ones in the car parks who've overstayed their time etc

I see cars parked on the verges outside the plantation car park nearly every day depsite (and in between) the signs asking people not to. And some are certainly climbers (I've been told to f**k off by a guy putting his mat back into his car). The plantation has been even worse with the road being almost impassable at times.

There's a PDNP Pass which is £40 a year which works in far more than just the plantation car park. Totally worth it IMO. 

Totally off the plantation parking topic, but speaking of such things, anyone know what happened after that Langdale farmer decided he'd had enough and broadsided a load of badly verge parked cars with a tractor and trailer in the middle of the valley a few years ago? Popped into my head just there.

That issue has been brought up at each of the Stanage Users Forums that I've been to in recent years - and each time the answer has been the same - it can't take cards because those machines need some sort of connection - might be a phone signal - in order to process the card payment and it doesn't work there. For a day, Plantation is relatively expensive - and an annoying amount to need coins for, from memory I think its 4.50 or something. I tend to only park there summer evenings when IIRC, it's free after 6 pm. I also don't object to paying something for parking - but the balance at Stanage is all wrong, it's relatively expensive if you do pay (totally accept though that everyone concerned is wealthy enough to buy a car, run a car and probably have a rucksack full of expensive trad gear), but worse than that is how hard it is to pay. Basically you need to know in advance how much it is and have that in coins - which means a trip to shop for most people nowadays, even at a time when shops are encouraging people to pay contactless! But until the balance is better, we will continue with the really difficult parking situation there has been at Stanage all summer, with it seems ever increasing use of the verges while Plantation car park remains under used.

I accept the issue of a mobile signal (if you've ever tried paying by card in Betws y Coed you get a similar issue - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, depending where you stand).  There are more options, though.  They could for instance do a deal with the garage in Hathersage (or indeed more than just one business) to sell scratchcard permits for it.

Cash is heading towards being dead, so there really does need to be an alternative.

The £40 permit wouldn't make sense for me, I don't go to the Peak 10 times a year.  If you do it's clearly a good idea, though - so why not, rather than an esoteric application process, make that well-promoted and on sale in local businesses too, like the Sticker was?

IOW, if they want my money, why not make it easier for me to pay it!

I always carry a small bag of pound coins in my glove compartment - comes in really handy e.g. in car parks - seems an easy solution to me

That's a workaround rather than a solution, and can be a faff to replenish if you, like me, barely use cash for anything and would prefer that it just went away entirely.  The solution is that exact change, cash only as a payment policy belongs on buses in about 1975.  There are a million and one better solutions than that now.  Another possibility - online booking - it's not like I set out from 150 miles away to Stanage without knowing that's where I'm going.

It's not a workaround for me - in recent years the out-of-the-way places I park often accept coins (some, if I remember right, only coins? Or no mobile signal). Also I often don't know where I'll be parking and am wandering round Sunderland or Stockton or Middlesbrough looking for a place, so can't book in advance. So the bag of pound coins works well for me. And therefore worth replenishing, only takes a minute

Pound coins are excellent for bribing or pleasing or thanking grandkids too

It's only a faff to people like you. The rest of us cope quite easily by living in the world as it is now and using a combination of cash, card and other payment methods.

Generally speaking, if you want customer's money, you accept the method of payment the customer wishes to use.

Unfortunately, statutory organisations seem to find customer focus difficult.  Fortunately, however, this attitude problem seems to be dying out; I've not had to use coins to park for a long time now.

I'm not the one complaining about things being a faff. We are a long way off being cashless, that's a fact of daily life whatever your personal wishes, so it makes sense to adjust your practices accordingly. 

And actually, your online booking suggestion might only be suitable if you were definite about your climbing venue, not the best idea these days where overcrowded car parks mean that a bit more flexibility could be  required..

By the way, I'm not suggesting that there should be no card payments, just that people should be a bit more adaptable when it comes to payment, like we often have to be in shops  where we might be confronted by a variety of payment restrictions.

That particular car park isn't crowded, that's kind of the issue - people don't like paying / don't carry enough cash so park elsewhere!

Presumably if they don't like paying it applies whether the currency is plastic or metal. And not carrying enough cash is not usually an acceptable excuse for anti-social or even illegal behaviour.

You conveniently ignored my other point.  Younger people typically use cash very little.  So you get there and don't have the correct change, you go somewhere else.

I don't know why going to another crag or parking at the Popular end (if there's space) would be considered either of those two things.  I'm all for ticketing people who park causing an obstruction.

Fair enough. But anyone who makes a decision to go completely cashless , whatever their age, ought to be ready for a few situations where being cashless is going to be an inconvenience. Things will probably be different in twenty years but until then......

I'm with you on this, so few places don't accept card that being 'cash only' is the exception rather than the rule. I hardly ever use cash and rarely have any on me, same goes for most people I know.

If you want people to pay, make it easy for them. 

I agree totally, and that's why any drive towards a cashless society should be tempered  by the knowledge that the less well off segments of our society deal almost exclusively in cash and their situation should be considered at all times. Let's keep it easy for them to pay, too.

Yes, I think having the choice is key. 

I have to admit I’m surprised no one has questioned the validity of being forced to pay to park to access the national park.

There are people in our society who simply can’t afford it, and quite frankly the outdoors should be a public good available to all, not just for the middle classes. 

I realise the park needs funding, and would have no problem paying higher taxes based on wealth etc to fund it, but just because a £5 charge isn’t much to some, don’t for one minute think it’s not a game stopper for others.

the benefits to physical and mental health from being  outdoors is massive and we really should be making it free to all at the point of use! 

For that reason I could never blame anyone parked on the verge outside the plantation car park. After all we all pay road tax don’t we!

You aren't

If they can afford to run a car, they can afford to park it.  Parking isn't free in city centres either and is way more expensive.

I agree its very beneficial and it is free.  Its the car that isn't.  You can get a train or bus into the peak if you want.

No, we don't pay road tax and haven't for years.

Unless I'm mistaken you can still access the national park at lots of places without having to pay and without incurring a ticket for grass verge spoiling - just not at the one in question.

I'm not completely cashless, however I don't tend to have a range of different amounts of change because almost nowhere needs that any more, and indeed with COVID they'd mostly rather I didn't.

But in my day to day life literally the only thing I need cash for is the chippy.  Even my local shop which was formerly a cash stalwart now does contactless for any amount.

While that's a wider debate, I'd favour ensuring they have access to free banking rather than keeping cash for that specific purpose.

Take it you'd be happy with having to pay to rent a piece of rock on which to climb? Pay to rent a bench in which to sit down? Pay to rent a path on which to walk on? Why should any of that be free?

American style timer pay meters could be installed at the base of each route, next to each bench, and manned gates at the access paths, then when out of hunting season permits could be sold to grouse hunters to shoot people with paintballs when they are on a route and the meter flag is down, or rent them stakeouts overlooking the benches.

So many fundraising oportunities being wasted...

No, I don't overly object to the idea of having to pay to climb on private land.  Cavers usually pay an access fee to the landowner where the access is on private land.  The culture is rather different from climbing in that regard.

But back properly to the point, the use of motor vehicles is a necessary evil and so fees relating to their use are reasonable to me.  You could get the train/bus and walk over from Hathersage if you wanted to avoid driving.

I might be wrong, but all land in the UK is private, isn't it? Would you really be ok if all crags introduced fees to climb on them?

You don't need to drive to go to Stanage. Neither you need to climb if you go to Stanage. Nor you need to sit down in a bench if you go to Stanage. You also don't need to go to Stanage. You could just go walk around your house if you wanted to avoid going to Stanage, and provided you don't sit on a bench or stray from the public pavement you could do that for free. What was the point going back to again?

I know there isn't much left but I'm pretty sure common land isn't "private".

Many jobs paying less than the living wage require a car in order to get to them in a reasonable time (our public transport systems is shit). Many people can only just afford the cheapest car going, which they probably got for £50-100 down the pub as a 'just before it's scrapped' bargain. The insurance/tax would end up the most expensive part by far and that £5 for the parking might be the last £5 they've got for the week. 

It's so easy to say "it's only £5" or "the train doesn't cost that much". Well it isn't only £5 for some people and the train costs quite a bit, £5.40 return for one person. Doesn't really help does it.

I suppose they could save money by just having boiled eggs and brown toast for the week though

I had a look, and the gov website says:

Common land

Common land is owned, for example by a local council, privately or by the National Trust.

You usually have the right to roam on it. This means you can use it for certain activities like walking and climbing.

Some common land has different rights, so you may be able to use it for other activities, for example horse-riding.

You cannot:

camp on common land without the owner’s permission

light a fire or have a barbecue

hold a festival or other event without permission

drive across it without permission unless you have the right to access your property

So it seems common land is indeed private property, and while the 'right to roam' means you can't be prevented from climbing, it does not say whether you can be charged for it or not.

I'm gonna guess charging would be deemed as denying the right to roam, and so that's why it is still free and they only charge for things outside the remit, like parking, fishing, etc.

Ah well, my mistake for reading too much into a word

Glad I only said pretty sure.......

There is a law now which says that bailiffs can only increase charges on the second visit they make. After that they cannot increase charges which means if they don't get anywhere after two visits they're likely to give up. It's just not worth their while when there are new cases coming in every day.

At the end of the day it's all about fairly simple economics. Which actions will are the most profitable. If they're not getting anywhere with one person they'll quickly move on to the next.

But personally speaking I've never had bailiffs out for such a trivial amount and I've never heard of that happening to anyone else either. I'm sure it happens from time to time but more generally it's a case of simply churning out computer generated threatening letters hoping that the person will feel intimidated and comply.

So you think you could simply ignore an official, council-issued fine, and they won't bother coming after you?  Let me know how that goes.

Private invoices are a slightly different matter - some PPCs are not litigious and after sending several threat-o-grams they'll just give up.  But several (Parking Eye at the top of the list) are ruthlessly litigious and issue County Court summonses through the bulk clearing center at Northampton by the bucketload.  Ignore these and you will get a CCJ; no bailiffs, but a screwed-over credit record. 

They have up to six years to bring such a claim, and a particularly charming tactic that some use is to wait 5 1/2 years before sending the claim documentation to the address they got from DVLA at the start of the process.  Of course, many will have moved by then, so they never even know they have a claim to defend - until they get turned down for credit and discover the CCJ.

Because land is free.

Simply put it's one big scam. The more that people fall for it the more successful and more powerful the scammers will become.

The worst I've ever had for parking is when some guy called round my house to hand deliver a demand for £90 for parking in a car park. I'd only been there for about 3 hours so that would amount to £30 per hour, a totally ridiculous sum. I can't remember if they came round once or several times but that was it. I never heard from them again.

It's interesting they seem to have dropped their prices over the years. I would  guess that, like any form of selling, the lower the prices the more buyers they will get and consequently more money they'll make in the long run.

It's also worth noting the way the fine in this thread is worded. It's basically saying "buy now and save £25". I've worked in sales and the whole thing of trying to get people to buy now is a classic sales technique. Now if was simple for them to just get the full amount why on earth would they offer a discount? They are trying to entice you into paying with a special offer. That tells you a lot. If people don't pay up immediately they probably won't pay at all and that's what they're worried about.

Even if you take that line, flattening natural environments and Tarmaccing them to put cars on is *definitely not* free, even if you only consider the cost of doing the flattening, maintenance and the cost to the natural environment.

I agree that the car park enforcement system is broken outside of local authority car parks (i.e. the "invoice" tripe), but this is a local authority car park.  It's also one that operated on an honesty system for quite some time, i.e. there wasn't any enforcement and this was well known, but unfortunately it seems climbers and walkers by and large are not honest so enforcement was necessary.

Pay it, is this the first and only time you have forgotten/not been carrying change, or does it actually work out at £2 per park over time? 

My recent parking fine fell into a similar category. 

So that was a private ticket, then - nothing more than a fancy invoice.  And I'm guessing it will have been before PoFA came into force?

The point stands - if you ignore a real council issued fine you're going to have it enforced. The reduction for paying promptly was imposed by legislation, that's all.

Well how much does it cost then? Pretty sure it's nowhere near £4.50 per day per person.

It's also worth noting that many people chose not to use their carpark. Their response was to stick a load of wooden posts in the ground to prevent parking elsewhere and force people into their carpark.

If any other business operated in such a foul way there would be uproar.

It's nothing to do with honesty. I never pay for any of these car parks and there, I'm being totally honest about it.

If anyone is has been dishonest it's Peak parks. The reason they don't try to enforce payment is because they have no right to charge in the first place. But most people don't know that because that has never been explicitly stated in the car parks. The BMC looked into this years ago and found they they didn't have the right to charge. But of course asking for voluntary donations is fine, even if they're dressed up to look like a mandatory charge.

I also know a friend who took a laywer to one of these carparks (the one above Millstone I believe). They read through the signs on the car park carefully and concluded that no, you don't have to pay. But Peak Parks rely on the fact that most of us don't take a lawyer every time they go out to the Peak. But if Peak Parks had been honest about it you wouldn't need lawyer. The sign could simply say "Voluntary Charge".

"to prevent them damaging verges or causing an obstruction".

It's not like the Popular end car park isn't free, and if you arrive by about 9am you can usually get a space, I've been able to get in it more often than I've not.

Or if you're *that* bothered, park on-street in Hathersage (it's not generally restricted; just be considerate) and walk over the hill, it's about 2.5km if I recall.

Do you have documentary evidence of this, please?

Or you could just pay for the service you are using.  The Park isn't a nasty money grabbing organisation, it's an underfunded statutory organisation that does a lot of good.

When I park my car the only service is that provided by myself. I already a pay a lot of road tax every year. I don't expect to pay more just to stop moving and turning the engine off.

The problem is wider than that though. If people continue to get away with charging people in the end everyone will be at it and when you go out to the countryside you'll be forced to pay an extra fee just for stopping somewhere, everywhere you go. This apparently is already an issue in some areas I've heard.

Maybe you should be, and those who make an effort to reduce their reliance on private transportation should be rewarded for doing so. Visit Edale or Burbage on a sunny weekend, and tell me there aren't too many vehicles on the road.

Did you build and maintain the car park?

No you don't. Because there is no such thing as road tax.

Well, there sort of is, because Vehicle Excise Duty (its correct name) is a road tax, as it's a tax paid for using certain classes of vehicle on the public road.  However, it isn't of any relevance to a car park.

Isn't road tax for the roads? You'll be even less popular if you "park" by stopping moving and turning the engine off in the middle of the road.

VED is really a pollution tax, and has been for some time. The new crop of cars which attract £0 in VED make this even clearer.

However, it does have the useful function that you can immediately class anyone who uses "I pay my road tax" as justification for their position as a bit of a muppet.

stp: I pay my road tax. That makes it ok for me to park in your driveway, right?

But, the amount you pay is unconnected to the amount of road you use, the frequency which you use it or the amount of wear. Rather it is entirely based on the emissions of the vehicle, is it's more a vehicle tax not a road tax.

Fuel duty on the other hand...

But you don't have to pay VED, you only have to pay it if you use the roads, which sounds like a road tax.

It's a tax on the use of some vehicles on the road.

On that basis, I think arguing against it being called a "road tax" is a bit overpicky, to be honest.

Taxes don't generally entitle you to things, they are charged when you do certain things.  This being the case, I don't see the reason why anyone would think "road tax" would entitle you to anything about the road.

There's history to this, of course.  VED was originally truly a 'road tax' - it was a tax that went solely into the Road Fund, to be used on building new roads.  Once you paid it you got a disc, which indicated that you were allowed to use the roads because you had contributed toward the cost of building them.

Of course this fell apart very quickly and for the best part of a century, VED has just gone into the general taxation coffers.  It is no longer a 'road tax' because it is no longer used specifically for building roads.

But this has lead to a certain type of person thinking they have more right to use the roads because they pay a greater rate of VED - most obviously in the the 'cyclists don't pay road tax so they should get off my road' mentality.  It's as meaningless as saying 'cyclists shouldn't use the NHS because they don't pay VED'.  The existence of zero-rated EVs makes this even more obvious.

Except that is no longer the case as from 2018 all profit from VED is used for road improvements.

Is cigarette tax used to fund the development of tobacco products?  Is Value Added Tax spent on adding value to products?  Is Air Passenger Duty spent on, er, air passengers?

"X tax" or "X duty" means "a tax/duty on being, using or consuming X", it says nothing about what it is spent on.

That's going straight to "Didn't Happen of the Year Awards".

In any case, you do have to pay because the owner/operator of the car park is asking you to do so in order to use the land.

Private enforcement is only there because people fail to do so when asked.  If we all paid for our parking correctly and didn't park where we weren't meant to for, say, a few months, the companies would soon collapse, as they'd cease to be profitable, and we could all just go back to common sense.

Same on the trains.  Annoyed at getting a penalty fare if you forgot your season ticket?  Well, if everyone just paid their fare, they'd be able to let you off because they'd know you were telling the truth.

Source?

Only the pollution when in use. The incredible amount of pollution involved in extracting the materials from the earth to produce vehicle batteries, along with the production of electricity to recharge them has been conveniently ignored.

As the materials required are finite, and much rarer and more difficult to obtain, I would love to know the estimate for when, in practical terms, these materials will effectively run out.

Originally announced in the 2015 Budget and introduced in the 2020 one:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/11/chancellor-announces-27bn-f...

We're way off the original topic here, but... the total embedded CO2 in an EV isn't that much higher than an ICE.  It's about a factor of 1.5 greater.  But embedded CO2 is a relatively small fraction of the total lifetime CO2 of a car; fuel CO2 is much more significant.  So it really comes down to the green-ness of the electricity you charge with.  The grid is getting greener and greener all the time.  My own EV is fed mostly from my own solar panels, so near zero CO2 (they repaid their own embedded CO2 years ago).  If you charge at 3am, the UK grid is pretty low carbon anyway and there's shedloads of capacity spare.

But battery tech is changing all the time.  Right now it's Lithium based but lots of alternative chemistries are on the horizon.

Has that actually been enacted?

And they drive all the way from Stoke to get you

But what tax will they invent when VED receipts are gone and electric vehicles the norm?

It's an interesting question.  Taxing the electricity is hard - how will the Exchequer know which kWh went into my EV and which went into my dishwasher? 

For now EVs are crazy cheap to run, especially if you have PV.  That won't be sustainable long term.  I rather suspect we're heading towards a system based on usage - perhaps smart road tolls. 

There will have to be a road pricing system of some kind.

How about accepting notes and payment by phone/internet? I have definitely had mobile data in that car park  

 What will happen though ((Phil) is that we will go to a genuine road tax.  If you use certain roads (unavoidable) and go into large town centres, you pay a tax.  That is collected , measured, via a GPS 'brick' in your car, stuck to the windscreen.  No brick, use the number plate.   Anyway the plan is that everyone's driving use will be collected and a driving tax applied on a kilometres basisl