UKH

Hi,

Im looking for some ideas on long Mountaineering routes in Snowdonia, with a grade of S/VS (preferably severe) with 8-10 pitches. Grooved Arête would be perfect but the grade is a little low. 

I'm struggling to find anything which is well documented and a decent length, so any ideas would be most welcome! 

Chris.

The classic idwal combination. Tennis Shoe, piton route/original route, groove above...... grey arete /slab. 

Have you looked at Lliwedd?

Grooved arete is a great experience! Great exposure and some nice climbing. Lliwedd might be a good shout

Grooved Arête feels more exciting than your average VDiff... it's basically a Severe and well worth your time. You could start up a Milestone Buttress route to gain the Heather Terrace if you wanted.

It's a good day to link routes on the Idwal Slabs, Holly Tree Wall and Continuation Wall, continuing from there to either Cneifion Arete, Glyder  Fach or Glyder Fawr.

Otherwise, The Cracks on Dinas Mot, Slow Ledge Route and Main Wall on Cyrn Las... or something similar up to Gambit Climb. 

Then there's Lliwedd as others have mentioned - which is to be recommended to anyone!

Grades on Lliwedd should be taken with a pinch of salt. The moves might only be VDiff/Severe. However, you have to factor in actually finding the correct route, some loose rock and grassy bits, finding decent runners. It's definitely a mountain day out experience.

Edit: Avalache/Red Wall combination is probably the classic route. However, routes like Horned Crag, Yellow Slab and The Sword are worthwhile and harder than you might expect.

Yep. Be very very careful not to take the wrong groove up red wall, unless you like an abandunce of loose rock, grassy bits, mud and no runners to speak of for 20m.

Also after Grey Slab dropping down into Cwm Cneifion and doing the classic Manx Wall is worthwhile.

Two additions:

• Manx Wall (HS 4b) at the end of the Idwal enchainment.
• Reade's Route (Summer) (S) on Crib Goch at the end of the Dinas Mot and upwards enchainment. 

Edit: beaten to it for Manx Wall ☹

Sounds like you found the correct route! Although, there is an abundance of shallow spikes for slings.

Grey Slab has a reputation as quite serious/very bold, but I've never done it. Is it as bold as people make out?

Nope, after my second came up I lowered them down and they found the correct route, which was one groove to the right of where I was. There were no spikes, or cracks, or anything at all, other than rotten side pulls and mud. The climbing was around 4b and had to exit out of the groove onto the face near the top. Oh, and entering that was not reversible. Character building is what I'd call it, nothing like standing on a mud ramp with nothing but side pulls and bridging on mud to go up to practice keeping calm! 🤣

Years since I've done it so memories may lie. First pitch OK and has adequate protection. Have to arrange belay at top carefully (may have included dubious flake/spike). Second pitch is the supposedly bold one getting over/round the overlap shortly after the belay as often damp, but nuts can be placed under the overlap with care to avoid pulling out sideways in event of a fall. Actually I think the rock was quite rough there so it wasn't over hard. Worth getting a belay ASAP after overlap for communication etc. It was HS and seemed reasonable at the grade.

If you fancy an adventure, how about Pencoed Pillar on Craig Cau, Cadair Idris? Given Severe nowadays, 700 feet of botanical delight - the ultimate antidote to climbing walls. The views and exposure will more than compensate for the veg.

Sounds like a grand Lliwedd day!

My attempt with a few friends: think we found the correct line (more or less). Got stuck behind a very slow team who started levering out huge blocks just above our heads: "this one moves!" "Yes, please put it back!!" Got to the ledge at the end of Red Wall and it started raining... desperate struggle up a very slippery Terminal Arete in a storm. And - the real gripper - we almost missed last food orders at the pub!

As others have said, Grooved Arete is well worth doing - probably the best route of its type that I've ever done. With long routes, if you're not soloing, so much time can be spent in belaying (run pitches together?) that often it's wise to have grades in hand.

If you run up it, then do First Pinnacle Rib as well. And, if your feet aren't hurting too much (mine were!), do Gashed Crag.

Mick

P.S. If there are other parties on any of these routes and they look as though they're going slow, I'd choose another route.

It seems that the upper part of Grey Slab is often wet (it was when we did it), so you need to be careful. But Grey Arete is the really serious/bold one. There have been two threads on it and, while we could all wrangle forever, it seemed that E1 5a was more like it. You could take a really horrible fall from about 40 feet (from memory) up the second pitch. And it's not totally obvious (well it wasn't to me) which way was the right one to go.

So emphatically not the VS/Severe that the OP was looking for.

The other thing about Grey Slab is that, if you've started from the bottom of the Slabs, you've already done a lot of climbing to get to the second pitch. If anybody's feeling at all tired, going on it is emphatically not a good idea.

There are some routes which are deadly serious. This is one.

Mick

Take this recommendation with a pinch of salt. Imo the views and exposure IN NO WAY compensate for the veg. On the other side of the mountain a great day at s/Vs can be had by climbing obsession, abbing off and then topping out on red crystals.

Am I alone in thinking grooved arete is pretty overrated? I found it disjointed and a bit of an anticlimax. In the dry in modern rock shoes the Knights move is a doddle.

Totally!

In exactly that situation, I remember Central Arête (VD) over to the right providing a really enjoyable but relaxing finish on alpine-ish spikiness.

I find routes like Grooved Arete, First Pinnacle Rib etc. a lot of fun in the wet but a bit underwhelming climbing-wise with modern gear otherwise. As such, I save those for rainy days and they don't disappoint.

We backed off pitch 2 when none of the three of us wanted to commit to the scary bit - 60+ years of experience between us, one up to 8a! All of us experienced ice climbers, Arctic multipitch etc. I'm not that great a climber but I've done a lot, and I didn't fancy it and my stronger mates thought the same. The belay isn't perfect either and you'd be falling onto that. I started what turned into a long thread on it a few years back.

Edit: sorry, that's Grey Arete not Slab.

Probably you're not alone, but you're still wrong. It's a great route at the grade and every pitch is good. The pitch leading up to the Knight's Move pitch is fantastic - certainly the best HVD pitch I've done, but also one of the better VDiff - S pitches I've done. The Knight's Move pitch also leads to a wildly exposed belay, which most VDiff-S leaders would find pretty out there - especially in a stiff breeze. How many VDiffs/Severes can you name that are better? I think you'd struggle to name 5.

Yes, I remember the thread - it was enough to put me off! Of course, the aura around it also makes it more attractive.

It's funny that most people say it is technical 5a with no gear facing an awful whip, but still give it HVS. Sounds like definitely E1 - though even on an E1 5a you would be hoping to have enough runners to avoid a massive factor 2 onto a dodgy belay if the moves are actually hard for 5a.

My favourite comment in the logbooks is: "An ideal route for the budget climber."

How about Main Wall/Gambit climb? Excellent linkup at HS/S

No, it's crap. A scramble primarily with about two moves of very easy rock climbing in the middle. 

Try looking at Craig Yr Ysfa, Pinnacle Wall and  Mur Y Niwl make a fantastic combination.  Or if their too much,  Amphitheatre Buttress. 

There's also Longland Climb on Cloggy, well worth doing. 

Interesting - I honestly don't remember it being that bad, and at the time I only had a few E2s and about 5 years experience under my belt. The latter of course, may have been a key factor...

Nonesense. It is a great climb at its grade. Of course, if you're expecting to find 5c + moves on a HVD you're bound to be disappointed.

I've enjoyed plenty of VDiffs and know what they involve, so less condescending please. The issue I have with GA (and a lot of the routes up Tryfan) is that the vast majority of them include a lot of scrambling with very few moves at the actual grade of the route - which, IMO, does not make for an enjoyable route.

Edit as I hit send too soon: However, I appreciate that some people may enjoy that - each to their own! Was just replying to the poster who also thought GA was a little overrated, as it seems that there are not many of us.

Might I suggest a copy of https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/books/mountain_rock-2223 ?

Fair enough, but I don't agree. Most of the route follows strong features at VDiff and there's only one scrambling section wedged between two great rock pitches. Climbed it in a howling hoolie with three friends. Even though we'd all climbed harder, we still thought it was cracking - atmospheric and good quality. When we got back to the campsite the next day, two older guys who'd just climbed it were in raptures about the position of the belay after the KM pitch.

People likewise call Bowfell Buttress "scrambling up crampon-scarred rock", Troutdale Pinnacle "a polished mess with only a couple of good bits" and Gillercombe Buttress "a boring ramble" - and I find it baffling. Then they get on The Coffin or Square Chimney and Medusa Wall and call these routes "dirty" and "a long walk for not much". Then they do Central Buttress, and that's "just ledge shuffling", whilst Whit's End Direct is: "just a boring slab, underwhelming". And I end up wondering why they bother.

Can also start with milestone buttress, then Grooved arete or whichever route is free, followed by direct route on Glyder Fach - think we also did a pitch on alphabet slab- 

Yes, the top of Grey Slab was a bit wet when we did it too, but with a bit of care it's not badly protected.

More exciting is the 4b mantleshelf at the top of the second pitch of Grey Rib - surprisingly big drop and no gear whatsoever. 

If you want a long mountaineering route with a bit of adventure, Carnedd y Filiast is worth a visit.

The classic combination is Central Route (S) / [Left Edge (VD) (about 7 pitches) but there's plenty of scope for multipitch excitement in the Atlantic Slab area.

I think it depends on your expectations. I did it as one of my first ever routes, no training, little gear and no knowledge. It was a massive adventure and one of my most memorable routes ever.

Not done them (sort of on my wish list) but I believe you'd be better off doing Mur Y Niwl first and then Pinnacle Wall 😁 - kudos to anyone who has done them in the other order.

If you want a long mountaineering route with a bit of adventure, Carnedd y Filiast is worth a visit.

The classic combination is Central Route (S) / [Left Edge (VD) (about 7 pitches) but there's plenty of scope for multipitch excitement in the Atlantic Slab area.

He's right, but if you bite off more than you wanted to chew... You were warned!

Edit: https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/carnedd_y_filiast_cairn_of_the_gre...

And

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/carnedd_y_filiast_cairn_of_the_gre...

I've not done that particular combination but I quite like a bit of downtaineering. Saves carrying gear up a route and often as not, avoids the queues.

Had a good day starting with a couple of routes on Glyder Fach, down heather terrace to dump the gear,  do a Tryfan ridge or two and finish off with Milestone Direct in the sunset.

Doesn't sound logical but has its merits....

Ordered! Looks like a great book, thanks for the recommendation

Thanks so much for all your comments, there's a lot of info I need to look into & digest - looks like there's some great routes I've never heard of and from the little time I've spent this evening looking into some of them, there's a lot I'd love to climb!

Appreciate your time with all the replies, cheers!