UKH

Following on from the route to Great Wall thread I thought I’d piggyback with my long term goal of The Moon at GogarthThe Moon (E3 5c)

It’s just so out there and looks amazing. Also my uncle who claims to have climbed all the starred E3s at Gogarth reckons it was his favourite and the biggest adventure! 

So i guess im keen for tips for getting there.

I’ve lead maybe 20 routes at Gogarth up to E2, (but the E2s were mostly slabby), and thousands of routes nationwide, though I’d say generally I’m around an E1 climber, with odd forays above usually confined to slabs. 

(I‘m 6‘1“ and nearly 14 Stone which doesn’t help).

For reference hardest sport redpoint 6c+, boulder V4, Headpoint E4, Onsight E3 (both the last two slabby grit)

Good with fiddly gear and boldness, less so with 5c and puppy stuff.

all advice greatfully recieved

thanks

rob

In reply to RM199:

The Sun (E3 5c)

Kalahari (E3 5c)

pressed post too soon.

atlantis/true moments/freebird.

The moon was my first route at Gogarth as a second, I definitely experienced the gogarth grip!

 I’ve not made it back to lead it yet since, although I’d imagine I’d find it fairly straightforward and a great deal less scary now! . I would think the above routes would be good prep. As with the other thread, get on it! 

In reply to Alex Riley:

Awesome thanks,

have done Atlantis/ true moments/ freebird.

led the traverse pitch. Brilliant 

In reply to RM199:

It’s not that bad although I remember thinking there wasn’t much difference between the second and third pitches in terms of difficulty. 

Creeping Lemma (E2 5c) crosses it but again there’s not a huge difference between this and the Moon IIRC

EDIT: ignore what I said about Creeping Leema, see Martin’s note below re. Rick fall
 

In reply to RM199:

youtube.com/watch?v=485XLD7oPm0&

contains all the advice anyone needs.

In reply to RM199: I remember it as being well protected but the second pitch is quite steep and pumpy. If you are used to sea cliffs it is soft for E3.

Difficult to suggest similar routes, Creeping Lemma (E2 5c) mentioned above has had a rockfall, not surd its been done since.

Nightride (E1 5b)

The Strand (E2 5b)

Resolution Direct (E2 5b)

These routes are all maybe 1 grade easier than The Moon, but if you can do them with reasonable confidence then id just go for it.

In reply to RM199:

If you're not good at pumpy climbing then P2 (and maybe P3) will definitely feel pumpy. It's not a route where the defining feature is that it's pumpy like the Rasp, but as someone who used to have terrible endurance I know that I would have got horribly pumped on it had I not been doing a reasonable amount of endurance training at the time. Having that fitness meant it felt fine and certainly not a sandbag at E3 (not that anyone's suggested that it is).

To me none of the moves felt anywhere near as hard as on a grit E3 slab, but obviously very different.

In reply to RM199:

Embarassed to say that I don't remember it, apparently it was 11 years ago and there is even a photo of me on it on UKC! But I really don't remember it at all.

I remember The Sun as being really excellent and Kalahari Highway I remember as great as well. Same goes for The Strand. I don't think I've done the other routes folk mentioned.

In terms of advice, I'd say it's great that you have lots of Gogarth experience already. I'd also say that when pushing your grade/breaking into a new grade it is better to pick routes that don't involve multiple pitches, beetling roofs and loads of sideways movement across the wall (and in this case downclimbing!) because everything rapidly gets more complex if anything goes wrong or you need to retreat or fall off and end up off the route or hanging in space or whatever. My recommendation would be to with single-pitch E3s, then fairly straight multi-pitch, then finally move onto horizontal explorative south stack craziness

The above paragraph is my sensible, responsible advice.

However...

I led my first E4 before I'd led E3 and it was a huge overhang that might well have necessitated lower off into the sea if I'd messed up (I know: Prussics. Honestly not sure if I had any though) so the impulsive me just says "if you see something you like, just go for it!" (and yolo and so on).

In reply to RM199:

Actually, wait, at E3 you _have_ to get on Centrefold (E3 5c) it's a good straight(ish)-up single pitch E3. Just don't get caught out by the tide.

In reply to RM199:

As others have said it's not that hard for E3 but it is spacey. Some have said they found it pumpy - I remember an odd mix of strenuous sections and complete rests that felt difficult to predict because of some of the way the rock is structured (as in, I'd be hanging with weight on my arms and then a few moves later standing there entirely in balance without realising I was 2 moves away from a rest).

I think I did it after Mousetrap, Red Wall and Wendigo - which maybe helped in that by comparison Yellow Wall feels rather conventional, but isn't necessary, they are probably more adventurous despite being physically easier.

I'd have thought it's a route which benefits from experience in exposed places and the ability to keep calm and press on as much as anything. Ultimately, assuming you're at vaguely the right level (I remember one short section notably harder than the rest but I do also recall some wet holds which perhaps made it that way, so am not that well placed to guess, but physically it wasn't a hard E3) the main challenge is going to be keeping your head.

In reply to RM199:

Thanks all

loads of good advice to go at here, and building up a decent wishlist to boot

In reply to Martin Haworth:

That's a shame about Creeping Lemma. Did it combined with pitch 1 of The Sind only a few months before the rockfall and thought it one of the best routes I'd done (didn't think I was up to The Moon).

In reply to RM199:

Lots of decent advice.

If you're OK with the whole sea cliff multi-pitch thing and are pretty decent with fiddling in lots and lots of gear then, I'd just grab a really big rack and get stuck in once you've had some Gogarth mileage on a few easier lines with a reliable partner. 

It sounds like the second pitch will definitely feel like the crux for you. It felt noticeably steeper than the rest for me and that's one of my strengths. However it's fairly 3D, the climbing is always pretty obvious rather than blind/tricky and with a bit of time and effort there's enough gear before and during the harder section.

Good luck! 

In reply to mike barnard:

I did CL about 8 or 10 years ago maybe and found it harder than the Moon. The weird crawly crux is harder than anything on the Moon (but is short) and after a short bit of good climbing on the last pitch, it degenerates into a chosspile. A much poorer route than The Moon, but still an amazing adventure, but harder for me.

In reply to RM199:

It was one of my first E3s. I'd done a lot at Gogarth up to E2 at that point. It was good conditions, I was massively psyched up for it, and having led the 2nd pitch, I declared it HVS.

It isn't HVS (I've done it twice since), but it's a similar route to Astral Stroll (E1 5b) - both could be E2. It's not physically hard, there's enough gear on P2 (P3 is spectacular and a bit bold - bendy old pegs and not a right lot else), but it is totally spectacular. In slimy conditions it definitely felt E3!

One of the best routes I've ever done. So exciting, so much character! The challenge isn't physical, it's just about getting stuck in and not freaking out. If you can climb proper E2s, you can climb the Moon.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I've not done Astral Stroll, so didn't want to suggest it blind, but I did think about it as feeling like the sort of thing that might be good preparation for the exposure/commitment.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

That's interesting. If you mean the 5b move on pitch 2, I think it's just working out the right way of doing it. The short last pitch up the headwall is the least good, but I don't remember it being choss. With pitch 1 of The Sind it was three excellent pitches, covering some pretty mad ground for the grade. I found the traverse after the Moon belay pretty bold and not sure I'd have fancied reversing it as per the Moon.

In reply to mike barnard:

Its easier the Moon way, ie. left to right , Mike . Get on it.

In reply to RM199:

My leader Pete Griffiths of V12 fame (sadly no longer with us} fell off The Moon high up on pitch 3 with no warning and was a long way out from the belay. After pulling him in I set off up the corner behind the belay. anyone know what that route is?  Up the corner and traverse out right at the top?

Sorry for the drift but I had always wondered over the last 15 years or so.

In reply to Rick Graham:

Cheers Rick, maybe one for next time then...

In reply to RM199:

We did it a few years ago. Lovely route. I'd give it E2. I'm a e1 e2 sort of cli.ber and found it ok. Same trip we did the classic e2 on red wall....in the morning. It was wet, slimy, clay. Brill adventure. Belay at half height is some old bits of metal stuck in clay looking mush.

I'd just crack on and go for it.