UKH

Is anyone aware of a (visual) notation aimed at describing an outdoor route based on its holds?  Something which models stuff like small edges, sidepulls, pockets, jugs, etc.  I'm sure I've seen such a thing in books or magazines somewhere but can't recall where.  An internet search didn't really turn up anything useful.  Obviously I could invent my own, but if there's already a visual lexicon that someone knows of....

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

You mean beyond what the rock fax books already do? 

In reply to MJAngry:

I'm not talking about marking a route on a topo, I mean marking the holds and their characteristics for a particular route.  The sort of thing your might do for red-pointing hard routes (which is my interest in this).  

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

I’ve just made stuff up myself in the past, or annotated a sketch

In reply to ianstevens:

Exactly so.  In fact this is a skill that is actively taught alongside techniques for memorising  and visualising moves. I dare say you'll get more out of sketching and making up your own method than learning someone else's.

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

A problem with that immediately springs to mind: maybe some routes with relatively few, spaced holds can effectively only be climbed one way, using all the "official" holds and no others, but I'm sure lots aren't like that - even very hard ones.

In reply to gravy:

I don't think the OP was after someone else's sketch, just a standard symbology

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

You could programme a VR with all the holds and moves on to help with visualisation at home beforehand.

Have you climbed on the route or is it something you want to try on a trip?

Lots of folks recreate boulder problems or route crux's on their home training boards but you would need to know the climb, size and length of holds/reaches to do this.

I am sure that there are several indoor walls around which are supposed to be photo copies of actual crags. 

In reply to ianstevens:

Yes, that was what I was thinking of. 

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

Good question. I am not aware of a generic system.

My notation is adapted from US and European route topos: circle = pocket; thin single line = thin crack; two parallel lines = wider crack; horizontal line with vertical hatching below = crimp; vertical line with horizontal hatching to the left = right facing side-pull or Gaston. Two parallel lines with hatching between =pinch or tufa. If the hold is a sloper rather than a crimp, the hatching is diagonal rather than perpendicular to the line of hold.  

In reply to bpmclimb:

Well, that's true.  However I was thinking more in terms of a personal sequence up a route.  Obviously I've done a pretty poor job of describing what I was looking for.  

In reply to Andy Gamisou:Hmm ,,, I've seen one that stands out , but can't remember which guide it was in... is there anything in the older bouldering guides.?  A handdrawn topo for the problems on minus ten for example?

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

Wasn't there a topo for the Bowderstone in an old FRCC guide which showed the hold types, edges, pockets etc or was it just a hand drawn pic?   

In reply to petegunn:

Maybe, but if so I haven't seen this guide.  This is the sort of thing though.  I've seen something similar a few times, but can't remember where.  I'm coming up with own notation though, so there's that....

Early issues of Grimper magazine had detailed move-diagrams for crux sections of classic routes, in a pull-out section. Along the lines of the description higher up the thread.

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

Can't directly help you but sounds like you're after something analogous to orienteering's standard symbols that are used to describe controls.

Possible student project - no idea what the degree subject would be - sports science maybe - any takers?

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

The Yorkshire bouldering guide by Cameron Duff had a few pages with hold-by-hold diagrams of a few select faces - the Calf at Ilkley had one such page. I don't think they were particularly good diagrams in terms of symbols for different hold types but it might be worth a look to give you ideas.

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

Jingo  Wobbly Portugal guidebook

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

I think some of the old Steve Ashton books used to have topos with the symbols you describe, they were all a bit crude though

In reply to scott titt:

Wow - the guide had hold to hold granularity on the topos?

In reply to Michael Hood:

Well, it occurs to me that knocking up an  app of  some sort that allows the sketching of routes in this way might be something that keeps me out of trouble for a few months, so I guess something would fall out of that, if I go ahead with it.

In reply to birdie num num:

Pull f***ing hard to the f***sidepull, place some sh***y wires and get your a**e up the f*****g crack crude?

In reply to wbo2:

Well he was always enthusiastic about his dramatic descriptions, but no, it was the topos, they were hand drawn adequate(ish) with a bit of imagination.