Oldest unrepeated route?

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 gooberman-hill 26 Nov 2020

The thread on the repeat of Fred Rouhling's Akira made me wonder:

What is the oldest unrepeated route in the UK?

Steve

In reply to gooberman-hill:

OG Jones probably climbed some gullies that no-one in their right mind would ever repeat.

 Shani 26 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Violent New Breed?

 Michael Hood 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Shani:

There must be some non-trivial unrepeated routes that are older but that's a pretty well known one. Has it even been seriously tried or has every aspirant felt the holds and run away 😁

 Toccata 26 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Total Eclipse?

mattmurphy 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Shani:

Surely to be unrepeated it needs a first ascent first? 

13
 Shani 26 Nov 2020
In reply to mattmurphy:

I'm old enough to remember that being said about Akira.

1
 Sean_J 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Toccata:

Allegedly never even had a first ascent I heard......

7
 Andy Moles 26 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

I bet the answer is something grim and obscure from the late 19th century.

 Andy Farnell 26 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:Mutation (9a+) hasn't been repeated yet. 22 years and counting. On the most popular hard sport crag in the Peak.

It's almost as if it's undergraded...

Andy F

 Toerag 26 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Almost certainly something in a little-frequented place (like where I live), or perhaps something icy that's suffered from global warming.

 McHeath 26 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

George Smith's Bar Fly (E6 6b) from 1991?

1
 kingborris 26 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Any routes that have fallen down prior to a repeat? 

1
 AlanLittle 26 Nov 2020
In reply to kingborris:

One of mine disappeared into the pool in the awesome lower tier of Markfield Quarry during the first ascent.

 climbercool 26 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Are there some hard/loose/dangerous routes on the Culm coast that are still unrepeated?

 Ian W 26 Nov 2020
In reply to AlanLittle:

> One of mine disappeared into the pool in the awesome lower tier of Markfield Quarry during the first ascent.

So you finished a different route to the one you started....does that count as 2 first ascents? Or is it that the second route (after the holds fell off) still awaits a first ascent even though you climbed it?

In reply to gooberman-hill:

I suspect that Roraima in Great Moor Zawn remains unrepeated.  First ascent was 1976 and it probably hasn't been dry enough since!

 AlanLittle 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian W:

The latter. It was a long time ago but it was a traverse and iirc I swam the last part.

Post edited at 17:05
 aksys 26 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Happy Hart E8 7a at Curbar

F.A. 1987

 Michael Hood 26 Nov 2020
In reply to McHeath:

> George Smith's Bar Fly (E6 6b) from 1991?

Having just watched the George Smith Friday night video the other day (I was amazed I'd never seen it before), Bar Fly looks amazing, all those knee bars that he gets in.

 Ian Parsons 26 Nov 2020
In reply to aksys:

> Happy Hart E8 7a at Curbar

> F.A. 1987


I wonder whether another John Hart route - presumably the same John Hart - has seen a repeat yet: Valhalla on Bempton Cliff, or thereabouts - FA, with John Stanger, 1974 [or slightly  earlier].

 webbo 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Different John Hart.

 McHeath 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Michael Hood:

I also first saw the film last week. George climbing Bar Fly was one of the most beautiful bits of climbing I've ever seen - incredibly powerful but at the same time almost relaxed and absolutely in control, on what must be brutally hard moves, in that amazing setting. 

 Ian Parsons 26 Nov 2020
In reply to webbo:

Ah - cheers; I've been trying to decide whether the guy in the FA photo looks like a younger version of the Happy Hart guy!

In reply to martinturnchapel

A Pat Littlejohn Route. Definitely one to aim at if it is ever dry enough! (And I get fit)

Steve

 Tom Valentine 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian Parsons:

I can remember  watching a John Hart  attempting the aid route which I think  has now become Baron Greenback. This would be about 1970.. I would put him in his mid -late twenties at the time. Had his name on his helmet, I think.

He certainly had a sense of adventure.

Post edited at 21:34
 Mick Ward 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Brian Cropper told me that he and Big Sid went to give it a second ascent. On closer inspection, they headed straight for the pub!

Caveat emptor.

Mick

 Ian Parsons 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> He certainly had a sense of adventure.

Crikey - you don't want one of those; can get you into all sorts of trouble!

 Ian Parsons 26 Nov 2020
In reply to Mick Ward:

> Brian Cropper told me that he and Big Sid went to give it a second ascent. On closer inspection, they headed straight for the pub!

Hi Mick. Yes; you mentioned short-lived interest from 'Brian and Big Sid' in earlier discourse, but I was never certain which Brian it was. I'd heard a tale many decades ago - no idea of its accuracy - of a Brian who had similar abrupt second thoughts when gazing at one of those huge cliffs on the west coast of your native island; the point being that the Brian in question had just done the French Direct in the land where the bridge-dwellers dwell. I'd like to think that it's a true story!

 193 27 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian Parsons:

I know John , used to climb with John Stanger , he has told me some very funny stories regarding him . 

 Andy Moles 27 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

I'm surprised anyone thinks the oldest unrepeated route is from the 80s or 90s. Oldest famous one, probably.

I'd confidently bet, without any way of proving it, that there are dozens if not hundreds of obscure things on mountain crags from much earlier which have never been repeated.

1
 193 27 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian Parsons

Just been in contact with John Hart , he did do  Bempton Cliff route says it was horrific , 

Quite a varied set of new routes by him then 

Horrific loose.                                Bempton Cliff

Unrepeated desperate grit.         Curbar

Hard Sport                                     Cornice 

Highball bouldering ( padless )    Pex

 Mick Ward 27 Nov 2020
In reply to Ian Parsons:

I believe there's a Ray Evans/Brian Wyville route on the cliffs of Moher (very early '70s?)  I think there's at least one Mick Fowler one (well, there would be!) I suppose there really should be a Littlejohn route. But I suspect many aspirants have gazed down into the awesome depths, marvelled at the choss and... walked away.

Mick

 Mick Ward 27 Nov 2020
In reply to 193:

Thought it would be the same John Hart. Bumped into him on The Cornice in the 1990s. We were sitting on bolts a few feet apart, he on something very much harder. Nice guy and clearly a brilliant climber. Seemed the sort of person who would prevail whatever the terrain.

Mick

 webbo 27 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Opps my mistake I didn’t think he would have been old enough for the Bempton route. 
Did they actually finish the Bempton route as I seem to remember from the Rocksport article they prusicked out on a rope dropped by a mate. However given my memory told there are two John Harts I may have imagined this.

 Ian Parsons 27 Nov 2020
In reply to 193:

Hi '193'; hope you're well, and thanks  for the confirmation.

> Just been in contact with John Hart , he did do  Bempton Cliff route says it was horrific , 

Clearly not as adventurous as we thought, then!

 Offwidth 27 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

There must be quite a few unrepeated Nadin routes left, including some at amenable sounding grades on the outrageous overhanging Great Gate Buttress.

Post edited at 15:59
 davepembs 27 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Plenty of routes in North Pemb's courtesy of Chalie Vigano and Pat Littlejohn amongst others from the early 70's which will not have been repeated. I managed a few of Pat's on Lairds Cliff and Shipwreck Wall in the 90's and having talked to him they were almost certainly second ascents, others I left/couldn't see beneath the vegetation! A lot of Charlies routes were missed from the definitive guides and again have disappeared, probably for all eternity.

I suspect though there are mountain routes from the early 20th century which have never been repeated which will be the winners.

 Ian Parsons 27 Nov 2020
In reply to Mick Ward:

> I believe there's a Ray Evans/Brian Wyville route on the cliffs of Moher (very early '70s?)  I think there's at least one Mick Fowler one (well, there would be!) I suppose there really should be a Littlejohn route. But I suspect many aspirants have gazed down into the awesome depths, marvelled at the choss and... walked away.

Ah! So they did do a  route there. That certainly fits as the occasion that I'd been told about; Ray Evans was mentioned as well, and it was 1971 when Wyvill did the Troll Wall route with Campbell-Kelly. Their sense of adventure didn't desert them after all. Or maybe their sanity did!

Yes; I see there are a couple of Fowler routes there - one on the underlying stack and the other, O'Brien's Direct, taking the full height of the cliff. That full height is, incidentally, 321 metres! It was climbed with Steve Sustad. I notice that there's a third route listed on another stack there that carries the refreshing grade of MXS 4a! 

 Ian Parsons 27 Nov 2020
In reply to webbo:

 

> Did they actually finish the Bempton route as I seem to remember from the Rocksport article they prusicked out on a rope dropped by a mate.

Yes, you're right. They jugged a rope dropped by their 'ground man' at the clifftop which saved them from "pegging up the final hundred and twenty feet of loose mank". It sounds like they intended to return to finish it, but I've no idea whether they ever did. JH's "horrific" comment suggests that he might have needed some persuasion! Not sure what the access situation is these days; I think it's very much a seabird habitat.

 Lankyman 27 Nov 2020
In reply to Mick Ward:

> I believe there's a Ray Evans/Brian Wyville route on the cliffs of Moher (very early '70s?)  I think there's at least one Mick Fowler one (well, there would be!) I suppose there really should be a Littlejohn route. But I suspect many aspirants have gazed down into the awesome depths, marvelled at the choss and... walked away.

I well recall my first visit (1978?) and crawling to edge for a look down. Almost crapped myself when I realised we were on a relatively thin undercut slab hanging over an 800 foot void. Years later they'd built a gift shop for the American tourists - what a shame.

In reply to 193:

Would that be the Hart of Hart's Arete (E4 6b).  Back in the day I bouldered out the lower section regularly, but the idea of coing upwards onto the upper section above the traverse was too much for even a. 17 year old me to contemplate.

Respect!

Steve

 Mick Ward 28 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Yes. Same guy.

Mick

 Offwidth 28 Nov 2020
In reply to davepembs:

On adventure climbs I'm pretty sure Doug Scott and co did various unrepeated sandstone routes in the Nottingham area, including on the castle crags.

Post edited at 13:51
 Mick Ward 28 Nov 2020
In reply to Offwidth:

Think he got special permission to climb there.

Mick

1
 jonathandavey 29 Nov 2020
 Sean Kelly 29 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Some of the routes on the stacks in Ladram Bay will have seen very few ascents, and again as they fall down a lot repeating the original climb is not always possible. I suspect it is similar with the chalk on the South Coast.

In reply to gooberman-hill:

Most of the routes at Stannington Ruffs would qualify...

 Offwidth 29 Nov 2020
In reply to jonathandavey:

Not just a repeat, a quadruple blimey: "The first route I actually rope soloed was Happy Hart at Curbar. I'd grasped all the concepts of rope soloing just by reading up on it, but when I got above my gear and started placing the top pieces I didn't have a clue what I was doing and started to clip the wrong end of the rope through the pieces and ended up in a right tangle in quite a stressful position. I managed to calm down, figure out what the heck I was meant to be doing and topped out with some hideous rope drag from the weight of the rope directly onto the soloing device. A massive learning curve straight away!"

 Offwidth 29 Nov 2020
In reply to Frank the Husky:

I do wonder, given it clearly has a few genuine fans. It's the only peak crag I've ever walked away from in disgust. We did one route (the best looking starter, being not so hard graded, OKish to access and not overgrown or covered in detritus) and which I'm glad I didn't lead, as it would have been a sandbag grade if the rock was solid and the gear sound, on 'rock' with a consistency not much better than hard biscuits, above a 40 degree soil slope full of sharp metal and broken glass. We did spot a short winter line that a pal did subsequently and said was good and useful, in a real cold snap when the roads out of Sheffield to the Peak were blocked.

 Iain Thow 30 Nov 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

How about the Hellisdale Buttresses on Being Mhor in South Uist, done by Charlie Ludwig in the 1930's? A place few climbers go, horrendously loose and several of them look quite hard. Ludwig was a talented climber but completely bonkers, routes with his name on are almost always death on a stick. He was killed in WW2. Probably some equally unpleasant Edwardian horror though.

Edit: just noticed that John Hart (mentioned above re Bempton) also put up routes on those buttresses.

Post edited at 21:40
In reply to Andy Moles:

I agree Andy. Thinking about winter gullies alone, there must be hundreds that were done way back and have seen no ascents since.

 Bobling 01 Dec 2020
In reply to gooberman-hill:

Every time I see this thread I misread it as "Oldest unrepented route".  Sure there would be some contenders for this.  John Redhead climbing Salisbury (?) cathedral spire springs to mind.

In reply to Mick Ward:

Visited Cliffs of Moher in August 1972 while on a west coast cliff hunting trip. Went to the bottom, windy as hell, black snow was falling off the crumbling rock! Gave up and proceeded to find Alladie or Burren Sea Cliffs as they initially became known. 
 

In reply to Lankyman: sadly the Celtic Tiger killed the goose that laid the golden eggs!

 Mick Ward 02 Dec 2020
In reply to Stephen R Young:

> Visited Cliffs of Moher in August 1972 while on a west coast cliff hunting trip. Went to the bottom, windy as hell, black snow was falling off the crumbling rock!

Sounds like 'The Dead', from 'Dubliners'.

> Gave up and proceeded to find Alladie or Burren Sea Cliffs as they initially became known. 

What a find! The rest, as they say, is history.

Mick

 Lankyman 02 Dec 2020
In reply to Stephen R Young:

> Visited Cliffs of Moher in August 1972 while on a west coast cliff hunting trip. Went to the bottom, windy as hell, black snow was falling off the crumbling rock! Gave up and proceeded to find Alladie or Burren Sea Cliffs as they initially became known. 


Probably one of the best decisions you've ever made. How did you get to the bottom of the Cliffs - I'm assuming you didn't abseil?

In reply to Lankyman: Descended a grassy ridge north of the tower, then scrambled back along at sea level.


New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...