UKH

Is it just me or has there been a marked drop in hard trad sends? Did the hard trad climbers all hang up their boots or switch to sport or something? Or is it just that these sends don't get reported on UKC?

I swear there used to be a lot more articles about E7, 8, 9, 10 sends and it just feels like I've not seen anything from anyone other than Dave Mac for ages now.

There you go:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2019/11/magic_line_-_8c+_trad_by_hazel_find...

Just not in the UK so it doesn't get an E grade.  Plus when the cutting edge is 8c+ or harder not sure that E7 repeats are exactly news worthy...

In relation to your title, just who was the great O'Meera?

T.

Where is last year in relation to  "for ages now?

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2018/08/the_big_issue_e9_6c_by_emma_twyford...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2018/07/nightmayer_e8_6c_by_emma_twyford-71...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2018/06/new_e9_6c_by_adam_hocking_blood_eag...

... or this year even

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2019/09/first_repeat_of_another_lonely_day_...

I was at Ilkley last weekend and it looked like trad in general has fallen out of fashion in Yorkshire. 20 years ago everything up to e3 would be chalked in the quarry. Last weekend apart from some boulder problems there was a distinct absence of chalk and when we got chatting to some locals they said the same and that occasionally they cleaned up a route, but there was not enough traffic to keep them clean. 

Still seems a bit slim. I mean that's like 1 article from 2019 and it's going to be 2020 pretty shortly. I'm not saying there is nothing at all, just seems to be so little.

A great... Er... Man?

Yeah, I remember reading that, definitely an incredible send. I didn't say in the op but I was really thinking of UK climbing but even if you expand it to international climbing, for every cobra crack repeat or Indian creek hard send, it seems like there are 10 articles about sport and another 10 about bouldering.

I'd still enjoy reading about new E7s and E7 flashes and onsights, but maybe that's just me and my backwards trad ways 😅

Might be something to do with it being December?

Chris

Cricket. I didn't realise it had gotten that unpopular. It's always been the case in Scotland that lots of nice lines get reclaimed by nature because of the ratio of people to rock but England has 10 times the people and, what, 1% of the rock? I always thought everything except some really obscure stuff would get plenty of traffic in England.

Still, on the plus side, I can stop worrying about running out of new routing opportunities or finding local crags too crowded!

Yeah, but isn't Nov to Feb prime grit season? With all the cold temperatures and great friction and stuff? I mean, I don't know because, before anyone asks the grit question, my answer is "remarkably little".

Someone did something hard this week at Burbage South - I saw it on Instagram last night! Jim Pope maybe?

<quick google... bear with me... yep, here it is...>

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5vn9-kDv9F/

Messiah, E7 7c. Well done Mr Pope!

You wonder how much stuff gets done like that, that beyond Insta photos - doesn't get that much coverage?

I thought they meant someone had polished off the Christmas chocolates already

6c, but well done indeed

Getting old, Ben Bransby's name had just slipped my mind -  I was thinking of Ben's attempt to climb every route on Stanage - not sure if he has finished it yet - but an amazing (if wonderfully geeky and trainspottery) thing to do. So I clicked on a random E7 on Stanage, thinking "I'll see that bloke's name there as he will have done it" and I clicked on:

Pacific Ocean Wall Direct (E7 6b)

Oddly I can't see Ben's name there, but look just last week Jim Pope had done it along with a some other people! So, like I said, maybe there are groups of very talented climbers quietly ticking through E7s, but I suppose they don't think climbing 30 year old routes is worth making that much of a song and dance about? Even if it looks very impressive to punters like myself!

Having said that, at Stanage which I'm a pretty regular visitor to - you don't see people on harder routes that often. Last Sunday was lovely and good conditions, at High Neb there was on team on Quietus (E2 5c), everyone else seemed to be doing routes up to VS, like myself and my friend were doing. It could be that the pros and semi-pros favour quieter week days, unlike 9-5 wage slaves such as myself who are going to go at weekends and summer evenings though.

Sorry! A bit of a typo that one!

I'd imagine nobody bothers reporting a lot of ascebts of e7-e9 anymore. Unless they are flash or onsight, or a new route (the e9 that is, any style of e7 isn't really going to be in the news). I have absolutely no evidence to back this up apart from what I hear on the grapevine, but I reckon a lot more e7 upwards get done these days than ever before 

Ha! Very good.

T.

To be a pro these days you don't have to climb anything. You just have to be sick at Instagram.

(Hehehehe)

Not if its wet

Traditional sends have been dropping for years. With the price of postage it's far easier to SEND stuff electronically.

9 routes at E7 and above have been logged on UKC in the last two weeks alone. If course a fair number of those were by Jim Pope, but to me that seems a pretty healthy number.

The Stranglers were of the same opinion 40 odd years ago.  I did manage a S 4b a while ago, but failed to alert the media so don't think it was widely reported on.

Hmm, I see. So it's not so much that nobody is sending hard, it's more that it doesn't crop up often on UKC? I wonder how UKC decides what to report on, is it based on what types of news story seem to get the most views? Or is it just decided by what the staff feel is worthy or reporting? Or is it that nobody doing trad sends seems much interested in publicising their achievements? Or is it something else entirely?

In north wales there's still a good group of people climbing e7 onsight, headpointing harder routes, and climbing quality new routes at e7 and harder. But they don't always get reported on. Only a handful of those climbers have sponsors to please etc and its nice to see that they do it for the love rather than the news report. Personally I almost never log routes on UKC unless there's important info to share and I know many feel the same. So whilst it might seem to have gone quiet, i'm not convinced that is true.

Grumpy Christmas alert : personally I'd prefer it no routes in the UK were "sent" anywhere.

Bah humbug 

I reckon there's a bit of truth in this.

For sure, there is plenty going on that doesn't make the news, but proportional to the amount of bouldering strength and sport fitness out there now, hard trad (especially top-end onsight/ground-up trad) seems relatively out of fashion.

I predict a resurgence though. It only takes a handful of suitably psyched and able people, and it's all there waiting to be done.

Is that because fewer people are doing hard trad climbing though, or because there are just way more climbers now and most of them get into sport and bouldering? That would certainly skew the statistics rather a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmyr_de_Hory

Surely this qualifies from last month!

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2019/11/third_ascent_of_if_6_was_9_e9_6c_by...

I know Dave Mac got a new E10 in this year, so did Ste Mac

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2019/05/first_ascent_of_greatness_wall_e10_...

So I've been hearing it incorrectly all these years.

Blimey. Every day's a school day.

T.

You can argue all you like about correlation vs causation but the fact is:

The amount hard UK trad ascents in inversely proportional to the frequency of 'send' being used as common vernacular.

Even in September it was green and covered in pigeon shit

I get all of this and I'm sure I can understand people not wanting to spend their time shouting about their achievements but I really quite enjoy seeing stuff about trad routes being climbed. Even if it's a little short article with a couple of photos, doesn't need a proper interview and breakdown of the entire training, preparation, etc etc.

What is the purpose of (or nuance implied by) the word 'send'? To me, it seems a stupid and unnecessary word - however, educate me.

It should mean a worked ascent rather than an onsight (the 'send' is the eventual successful lead), but isn't always used that way.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/topascents.php

Gives some indication but not everyone logs ascents on ukc. I'd say most things don't get reported tbh, plenty of hard trad gets done around here (north wales) that nobody hears about, although not really this time of year.

https://chalkbloc.com/climbing-articles/ben-silvestre-notes-on-the-margin-w...

There's quite a bit of this going on, under the radar (people just going climbing) E7 flash/onsight attempts/ascents, and E8/9 headpoints. 

I know you're probably thinking UK, but doesn't Jacopo's climb ring any bells.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2019/03/jacopo_larcher_climbs_contender_for...

Few months ago admitedly but the footage is pretty awesome.

Ask Gary

Problem is uk language doesn't have a single word to imply 'climbed clean' - or does it ?