New Meirionnydd guide?

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 Jabbott 13 Mar 2020

There was a thread some 7 years ago regarding a new Meirionnydd guide. I can't find any more recent updates online, anyone know if it'll be published anytime soon?
 
https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rock_talk/calling_all_meirionnydd_mid_wal...

Post edited at 11:16
In reply to Jabbott:

Since then Dave has published the elenydd guide and I think has been working on a Welsh grit guide to the rhinogydd. While I'm excited to see those I'm sad that cader and the arans seem to be getting forgotten.

In reply to pancakeandchips:

The area is covered in select form in North Wales Climbs and on the Rockfax app.

https://www.rockfax.com/climbing-guides/books/north-wales-climbs/

Alan

Post edited at 15:06
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OP Jabbott 13 Mar 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Thanks for that. Looking at the publisher's website it looks as if the CC abandoned working on a revised  guide. A case of guidebook committee politics, or as Alan's post alludes too, it's not worth publishing guides to areas away from the honeypot crags when you can have the best lines on your phone for a cost of a pint a month?

 spenser 13 Mar 2020
In reply to Jabbott:

I think it's less a case of politics and more a case of priorities. The CC does the community a great service with its guidebooks (as do the FRCC, the BMC and the SMC) which are produced voluntarily (Rockfax also provide a service but obviously not on a voluntary basis and with expectations of salary unlike the CC). Unfortunately the CC does also have a finite sum of money and volunteer time and is unlikely to fund and write a guidebook to a rarely visited area when there are more popular areas which would provide much more benefit to the community if the guidebook were to be updated (N Devon comes to mind as I know this is in progress), Dartmoor, South Devon and West Cornwall have all had excellent quality guidebooks published in the last 4 years (I think Avon was in that time period as well but I haven't got that one).

If you're keen on the climbing in the area possibly approach the Publications Sub-Committee about the idea of doing some work to put together a new guidebook to the area? They're not particularly scary people!

It's probably worth pointing out that I'm on the CC committee, however those views are my own picked up from conversations with various people from the committee and PSC as I asked a similar question a couple of years ago.

Post edited at 17:27
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 The Pylon King 13 Mar 2020
In reply to Jabbott:

> A case of guidebook committee politics, or as Alan's post alludes too, it's not worth publishing guides to areas away from the honeypot crags when you can have the best lines on your phone for a cost of a pint a month?

Hopefully not. Some of the best climbing in the UK doesnt end up in a cherry-picked select book, thankfully.

OP Jabbott 13 Mar 2020
In reply to spenser:

Thanks for that insight Spenser. It does seem odd that the authors, under the auspices of the CC, were looking input for the new guide 7 years ago, then some of the work was published independently.

As for volunteering to help with new guide, I would if I was local to any climbing! As it happens I've plenty of time to flick through guidebooks between climbing trips from deepest darkest Cambridgeshire ☹️

 Alex Riley 13 Mar 2020
In reply to Jabbott:

I work with one of writers of the past guide and he said he was contacted about info for a new guide recently, what that means though who knows.

 Alex Riley 13 Mar 2020
In reply to Jabbott:

I work with one of writers of the past guide and he said he was contacted about info for a new guide recently, what that means though who knows.

 pete johnson 14 Mar 2020
In reply to Jabbott:

If you look at the CC website it states that there is a Moelwynion guide in preparation. 

Post edited at 20:59
 pete johnson 14 Mar 2020
In reply to spenser:

Tut tut Spenser! Look at the club's website. Guidebook in preparation. You should have checked with the PSC before you posted 😂🤣

1
 wepsein 15 Mar 2020
In reply to Jabbott:

Thank you very much for the all replies. They are really helping.

 spenser 15 Mar 2020
In reply to pete johnson:

I hadn't heard anything about the Moelwynion guidebook from the AGM a few weeks ago and had forgotten that the club had an "in preparation" section on the website.

My point about the club spending dosh and volunteer time on what they deem to be priorities still stands. SE Wales being a bit of a different beast as I understand that much of the work has been done by members of the local club and the CC is providing guidebook publishing expertise in support.

 The Pylon King 15 Mar 2020
In reply to Jabbott:

Thank god for independent non club guidebook producers. It's healthy that it isn't just Rockfax, CC, FFRC, etc producing all the books.

Post edited at 12:25
In reply to Jabbott:

> Thanks for that. Looking at the publisher's website it looks as if the CC abandoned working on a revised guide. A case of guidebook committee politics, or as Alan's post alludes too, it's not worth publishing guides to areas away from the honeypot crags when you can have the best lines on your phone for a cost of a pint a month?

'worth it' is probably not the correct thing to say. It is possible to produce a guidebook to anywhere that at least covers its costs so finances should never really be the problem if you have the cash to print it in the first place. It may be a question of resources though.

"best lines on your phone for a cost of a pint a month?" - this is also not quite right. Yes, a lot of our app coverage is selective at present (since the books it comes from were) but the idea is that, eventually, the app will be the place for everything. This is already the case with many of the areas and will be increasingly so as we move onto the next series of printed editions.

Alan

In reply to The Pylon King:

> Thank god for independent non club guidebook producers. It's healthy that it isn't just Rockfax, CC, FFRC, etc producing all the books.

Must have been terrible in the 70s and 80s when there wasn't even Rockfax on that list!

But on the whole, I agree. Small independent guides (and Rockfax, Ground-up, Vertebrate) have filled the gap left by club system neglecting certain styles of climbing, initially sport climbing and latterly bouldering, over the last 30 years.

Alan

Post edited at 14:53
 The Pylon King 15 Mar 2020
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

> Must have been terrible in the 70s and 80s when there wasn't even Rockfax on that list!

Haha, yes but even in the 60s, 70s, and 80s there were independent guidebooks wasn't there? I have a few myself.

Yes. I particularly like the fact that different guidebook producers, especially the smaller ones, bring a different character to their books. Some can be bonkers and some quite dry and some in-between.

Post edited at 15:45
OP Jabbott 15 Mar 2020
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

> "best lines on your phone for a cost of a pint a month?" - this is also not quite right. Yes, a lot of our app coverage is selective at present (since the books it comes from were) but the idea is that, eventually, the app will be the place for everything. 

So currently my point is valid, I was not aware of Rockfax's future plans for the app.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't being disingenuous in my opening post; I believe the app in it's current state is good value.

As an infrequent climber, just getting back climbing now my daughter is keen, we climb all over the county; the idea of app is great. I'll be buying a month's pass when / if we we're allowed to travel to spend Easter in Gower to be used along side the Pesda Press book and the SW Wiki. 

Edit: for the avoidance of doubt, I'm aware the Meirionnydd doesn't / didn't cover Gower; I was looking to buy the guide for another trip this year.

Post edited at 17:25
 The Pylon King 16 Mar 2020
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:

> but the idea is that, eventually, the app will be the place for everything. This is already the case with many of the areas and will be increasingly so as we move onto the next series of printed editions.

What is 'everything'?

In reply to The Pylon King:

> What is 'everything'?

Everything we cover or have covered. In some places this means crags that were once in one of our books but aren't any more due to space. In other places it means less significant buttresses and crags that we have info for but haven't found a space to put in print. The forthcoming Peak Limestone is a good example of a book that will have around 30% more content in the digital version. Some of this has been in our books before but much of it hasn't. 

Ultimately we will have a system where users can produce topos which can go direct on the app although we are a few years away from that. 

Alan

 Dave Williams 30 Mar 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

> Since then Dave has published the elenydd guide and I think has been working on a Welsh grit guide to the rhinogydd. While I'm excited to see those I'm sad that cader and the arans seem to be getting forgotten.

Sorry, but I originally missed this thread as I was climbing abroad at the time. Hopefully the following will provide an update of how things stand ATM (from my perspective at least......) 

You're correct in saying that, since then, I have co-authored the Central Wales Elenydd guide. From start to finish, this privately published (Steep Stone) guidebook took over 6 years to produce and publish, primarily due to not having the financial and manpower resources of established publishers such as Rockfax or the CC.

It's also true that I've also been working on a guide to the Rhinogydd for a number of years, a long term project which goes under the name of Welsh Grit. Existing routes have been checked, new routes climbed and whole new areas (eg. Cefn Cam) have been developed by Doug Kerr, myself and others. 

While work on Welsh Grit slowly rumbles on, I have written a number of free-to-download PDF crag or area specific Rhinogydd mini-guides. More such mini-guides were in the pipeline for this summer, but these are now obviously suspended due to Covid-19 restrictions. (I'm hesitant to provide a link to these mini-guides as it may provoke the mods to pull the thread.)

Also available, from the same source, is a fully updated guide to the Berwynion, which is designed to be used in conjunction with the existing CC guidebook.

I have most, perhaps all, of the new route information for both the Arenig, Aran and Cadair Idris areas but I simply don't posses the resources to progress these as well. So, sadly, these areas are very much on the back burner as far as I'm concerned. (I did, however, on-sight a new line on Craig Cau last September, so I do keep dipping my toe in the water, so to speak.) 

Other than progressing with a new Moelwynion and Cwm Lledr guide, I don't think that the CC has any intention of ever producing another guide to the remainder of Meirionnydd. When I last was in contact with the CC's Publications Sub-committee, there was a great deal of negativity and uninformed bias expressed by committee members towards all climbing areas south of Tremadog. Some even rubbished our intention, at the time, to produce a guide to Elenydd. Fortunately, we disregarded such negativity and carried on. It's just as well that we did as the Elenydd guide has sold well and has proved to not only have been an extremely worthwhile undertaking, but a commercial success as well. 

Hope this helps. 

Dave

Post edited at 14:33
In reply to Dave Williams:

Thanks for the very thorough update Dave.

Let us know if you ever fancy writing a destination article to any of the areas mentioned within your post. Whilst it won't do anything to ease your workload it'd be great to shine a light on some of the more unknown and esoteric areas that have some hidden quality within them.

Keep up all the good work and put me down for a pre-order as/when Welsh Grit does go to print.

OP Jabbott 30 Mar 2020
In reply to Dave Williams:

Many thanks for the detailed reply Dave. 

In reply to Dave Williams:

Thanks for the reply Dave. Really looking forward to the Welsh Grit guide and very grateful for the pdf mini guides as well. You're doing great work.

 The Pylon King 30 Mar 2020
In reply to Dave Williams:

The climbing guidebook world would be a poorer place without your's (and the 2 other Ds') Elenydd guidebook. I think it is essential that other people produce guidebooks and that it's not just left to the main climbing clubs and Rockfax.

 Myfyr Tomos 30 Mar 2020
In reply to Dave Williams:

Keep up the good work Dave. Gwaith clodwiw iawn.

 Dave Williams 31 Mar 2020
In reply to Jabbott:

Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you all, you're very kind. One does what one can..... 

 Dave Williams 31 Mar 2020
In reply to The Pylon King:

Thanks Mark; I couldn't agree more. All credit to your involvement with Great Western Rock guidebooks too. 

 Dave Williams 31 Mar 2020
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

> Let us know if you ever fancy writing a destination article to any of the areas mentioned within your post. Whilst it won't do anything to ease your workload it'd be great to shine a light on some of the more unknown and esoteric areas that have some hidden quality within them.

Thanks for the very kind offer Rob. As I currently seem to have a lot of time on my hands, I'll give your proposal some serious thought. 

In reply to The Pylon King:

On that note, have you got any more guidebooks up your sleeve Mark?

Sadly I'm not on the road as much as I used to be (although happily it's because I now have a family), otherwise I'd have loved to have explored some of Somerset's more esoteric delights...

 The Pylon King 02 Apr 2020
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

> On that note, have you got any more guidebooks up your sleeve Mark?

> Sadly I'm not on the road as much as I used to be (although happily it's because I now have a family), otherwise I'd have loved to have explored some of Somerset's more esoteric delights...


Hi Rob, yes more books of 'esoteric delights' in the pipeline!

Highly annoying though as ive been cleaning things up through all this terrible wet winter in ready for climbing this spring and now its bone dry we are not allowed out.

In reply to The Pylon King:

It's certainly ironic that after the back-to-back series of storms we had the one moment when the sun should come out and shine is the exact moment we're all told to stay indoors.

Good luck in getting out, as/when we're allowed out!


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