UKH

RESEARCH 

University of Derby Occupational Therapy Masters research considering climbers experiences of flow. 

WHAT IS FLOW? ‘a state in which people are so involved in an activity that nothing else seems to matter’. An experience some would describe as getting lost in the moment, as a result of the effective combination of challenge and skill.

This research will hopefully begin to give an insight into any value that may arise from facilitating flow through climbing or other meaningful activities, during an occupational therapy intervention focused on improving wellbeing. 

The questionnaire includes 10 questions which should take between 10-15 mins to complete. 

Thankyou in advance

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdVSucGsoZD-LXhTHZ0oocJPV2bZ86k-qN...

Done - interesting survey. I would be very interested to read the results - perhaps you could put a link to the published paper on here when it's completed.

Isn't this called 'being in the zone'? Apparently surgeons can train the mental state required to improve their concentration using a device designed for the purpose.

done, yes agreed, one of the better one's that pop up here. Not a typo to be seen (I think)

I will be putting a link up once the report is completed alternatively send me an email at 100230281@unimail.derby.ac.uk and i will email you a copy automatically. 

Thank you for taking part. 

Yes, 'flow' is the academic term/ concept for 'being in the zone'. 

Oh wow, this hasn't come up in my reading, but it doesn't surprise me. I know i wish i could give 100% concentration whenever it would benefit me the most. Its incredible what we can achieve when we really focus! 

I read Csikszentmihalyi's book recently and had a lot of "Bing!" moments. He talks about climbing as an example quite a bit.

Interesting topic, clearly explained, and thank you for putting all the research ethics and integrity stuff at the start.

Agreed, should be a benchmark example of how to conduct an online survey.

Very thought provoking questions too.

A  great example on how surveys/questionnaires should be done. 

Personally, I'm interested in how the fear on lead interacts with flow and whether people with more experience still feel the  same flow when climbing at the hard end.

Filled in 

I’d love to see the data when you’ve collected it, and any subsequent paper you publish if it gets that far. Please do post a follow up here in due course!

Although I haven’t done it much, I find that when I solo or am doing a hard boulder on my own and the pads are it turns out not in the right position, I get an unbelievable level of focus. I’m not quite sure, however, if I’d call it flow - I get flow when I’m having an awesome day just gliding up the rock near my limit but with no sense I’ll fall off. This is a bit different to when I’m thinking “get this f*cking right because you CANNOT fall off now”

This is connected to something I was thinking about recently: that there are two different kinds of fear in climbing:

- Ordinary fear: this is when your head is not in the game, and you’re getting scared even though you know it’s safe. Paradigm case: sport climbing with a safe fall on to a good bolt. See also: Trad climbing above excellent gear. When I get afraid in these situations, I know it’s to some degree unwarranted. 

- Real Deal Fear: when I kicked my one good nut clean out of the crack over on the face away from the offwidth corner (which I was avoiding) on The Plum (E1 5b) , meaning a fall would have seen me at the very least break both my legs if not worse, the fear I experienced then was of a qualitatively different and more intense kind. It also led to a heightened focus and an improvement in my climbing execution whereas Ordinary Fear usually makes you climb worse. 

I did! 

Done, good luck with your work

I would say when you are run out far above a piece of dodgey gear, it's not nothing else seems to matter, its nothing else does matter!

Thank you - kind of you

Nice one, good questions

I'm glad it was helpful! Thank you for your positive feedback  

I agree, so many 'Bing' moments! There a few different texts by Csikszentmihalyi, all focusing on slightly different things. For anyone wanting a nice overview of 'flow', there is a fantastic video on Tedtalks by Csikszentmihalyi. 

Thank you  

I find this fascinating too. As a relatively new climber I have just begun working on routes where i notice fear affecting my climbing, often finding myself climbing more technically sound when i the risk of falling/ failing is higher. 

Hopefully my research should begin to give an insight into whether people are more/ less likely to experience flow 'at the hard end', however it won't specifically consider the impact of fear on flow. 

I will be publishing the document/ findings on the forum once they are completed, but if you would like me to send you the research project directly please email me at 100230281@unimail.derby.ac.uk 

Thank you for your interest in my research!! 

I will absolutely be posting the final research project on the forum once completed (June) but if you would like a copy directly emailed to you please drop me a message to 100230281@unimail.derby.ac.uk

Difficult to fill in if you have never felt that you have experienced ‘flow’ or if you’re not sure but I did my best

I do like that!

Ordinary fear is a waste of time, but proper fear induces calm commitment.

I'm the same.

If you aren’t sure, I’d say you probably haven’t - you’d know if you had. But hopefully one day you will! It’s a great state to be in, but doesn’t come all that often (at least for me), and certainly can’t get be turned on at will (unfortunately).

Given that some of the research induced flow states in participants through mental arithmetic problems it doesn’t sound like it’s anything rare or special. Just being absorbed in the activity you are doing

 I occasionally get  'it' climbing  - a sort of unawareness of effort and fear for however long it lasts (not very!) but never in other sports eg running, cycling where I'm always aware I''m moving

So I’d say there is qualitative difference between sport flow and mental activity flow. 

I’m a writer in various guides, and when I write I get flow - or at least I do on good days. But it’s a) much easier for me to get mental flow than physical flow by just getting on with the task at hand, and b) mental flow for me is much less likely to be dependent on wider factors like how I’m feeling, the weather, fear, etc etc 

partly this must also be because I’ve had years and years of near daily practice of writing. But I think it’s also because if flow is a mental thing, it’s easier to get if you’re doing a primarily mental task. Introduce physical coordination into the mix and at least for me it becomes much harder to attain and sustain. Doubtless the more coordinated and experienced can get physical flow more easily than I can - but having said that, they definitely feel different to me when I experience them  

Perhaps 'flow' in either context is a positive sense of of awareness of the exercise of competence. It isn't a word we use when things are going badly, or when no apparent progress is being made. Writers block, or continually falling on the crux, or being stuck generally would naturally ( and literally) be the opposite of flow. Yet we are often operating at our very highest capacity mentally or physically when 'stuck' -higher even than when things are going well, though without the tangible positive outcome.

This would shift the meaning of 'flow' to the outcome of our effort in interaction with something objective like  puzzle or a complex task ( even if the object is creative thinking).

My question is whether flow is a substantive  concept or simply this internal awareness- qualia if you like-  of competence in action.It wouldn't then be a causal state but a perceptual one.

Interesting. There is definitely a strong degree to which flow is phenomenologically determined - you only have flow if you feel like you have flow.

But here’s a further wrinkle - ever noticed that if you start thinking “oh I have flow”, or indeed explicitly noticing what you are doing and start to be self-aware in the moment, that tends to kill flow? So it’s a pretty complex thing, *especially* taking into account the phenomenological component. 

I'm not sure I've experienced " breaking the spell" like that, though I can see how it might happen. A bit like interrupting long-learned motor skills ( instrumental music, shoelace tying, touch typing) with conscious control thoughts. Or possibly shifting conscious attention to "Oh! Ive got flow!!"  and so reducing focus on the task in hand. Being in the moment suggests to me not being reflective at that point. Once we reflect, or consciously monitor how we feel about what we're doing, or try to assess our internal states, we aren't just doing or being, but thinking about doing or being as well as...

Putting that together with my last post, the sense of competence in action is relegated to slightly lagging peripheral hindsight, recognised momentarily afterwards but not attended do.

But of course there will be degrees of robustness to an individual's capacity to entertain distracting perceptions, and even thoughts, without losing their principal focus.

I’m not sure if this is true (a quick google didn’t turn up confirmation) but I’ve heard it said that Zinedine Zidane claims be doesn’t remember scoring most of his goals because when he played his best he was so absorbed in the moment that he can’t remember specific instances of any particular game. He knows he was there and he knows he scored, but can’t remember the actual process of it happening. 

If true that would be an interesting data point about flow in elite level athletes and the level of immersion it can generate. 

Done.

I do find this quite amusing. The idea that when something really scary happens we have time for some intellectual analysis along the lines of 'Is this ordinary fear or proper fear? ... Have I crossed the boundary from the ordinary to the proper? ... How can I tell if I've crossed it?'

Or blind panic! I think the ability to remain calm only comes with experience and the ability to tell yourself rationally that anything else is counterproductive.