UKH

We've been putting it off for years but it can't go on much longer. It's time to address this. We need to face up to the reality that the loose block scale is past its review date.

Most of it is uncontroversial. We're all agreed that you have a choice of sports balls or citrus fruits at the smaller end. Everyone knows what tennis ball-sized, bowling ball-sized, grapefruit-sized, watermelon-sized are. Those are all universally accepted.

Similarly at the upper end of the scale it's indisputably the kitchen appliances. You get your freezer-sized to washing machine-sized blocks, and down to microwave- and toaster-sized. That's fine. We're all cool with those.

But what's bothering me, the elephant in the room that needs to be addressed, is the TV-sized block. It's one of the most popular sizes and it just doesn't work any more. The days of the CRT are long gone and a block the size of a modern TV could be anything. There are people climbing now who would give the concept a very poor reception. They'd be looking out for a loose flake if you compared a shonky bit of rock to a TV. It barely even held up in the 90s when TVs were doubling in size every couple of years. Sure, maybe it was reliable in the lancs quarries where if you're unsure you could just check against the smashed up TV next to you, but that doesn't work everywhere.

How do we get the council of guidebook editors to convene and redefine the switchover appliance in the loose block scale? In the days of flatscreens, what sits between fruit/sporting equipment and white goods?

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Microwaves are a pretty consistent size and are similar in format to a proper TV (i.e. with CRT no remote, poor sound quality and a god awful picture) so we should just replace all mention of TV sized blocks with microwave oven sized blocks.

In reply to beardy mike:

I reckon a CRT is probably at least 50% larger than a microwave, if not double the size. They were chunky old beasts. There's an excellent example of a TV sized block at the top of Heaven Crack at Stanage.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Crags and mountainsides have improved over the years, loose blocks being modernised. Firstly the move from imperial to metric equivalents made blocks slightly smaller and while some people moaned at the time especially trad climbers I think we got used to it. As things have progressed they've shrunk further, but it won't be too long until you can only see them as some form of pokemon go style enhanced reality.

Climbing is pretty antiquated, you see people walking pavements looking down at their phones, crossing roads looking at phones - and bang on trend: is outdoor leisure. Many people have conquered mount Snowdon with nothing more than thin clothing, a can of monster and baseball cap + trainers, all while viewing the world through a smart phone screen happily shouting their way up the epic climb from Clanberris. Unfortunately it is still the case that not all rock climbers are looking at their phones while they send routes. This is still limited to GenZ, our future.

The original post is frankly: backwards. Worrying about the block sizes and whether they match arbitrary object found in the real world??? -- I'm pained to say your post is encouraging that luddite attitude. We need to push for all loose blocks to be virtualized for the metaverse, not pigeonholed in physical terms.

Where is the BMC on this?

In reply to beardy mike:

Microwaves aren't that good, with many of them being built in (or does "microwave sized block" sometimes imply solidly attached ?).

Fridges are also no good - ranging from little wine fridges to American style walk in fridges and with free standing or built in options ( see microwave above).

All in all, I'm inclined to think that kitchen appliances are a less reliable benchmark than even TVs.

Maybe an Amazon delivery sized block for the modern age ?

In reply to beardy mike:

Built-in or standalone? <runs away/>

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

I think the TV rating can possibly be modernised and still useful for slate given the way it breaks along the planes of foliation.

We need to keep with the times and I propose that the general TV rating is changed to the Deliveroo box rating.

Thank you for raising this important topic.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

It's a conundrum. I'm wondering about the Nespresso machine but I feel it's got a lot of crossover with the toaster and microwave.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

If you're trundling blocks in a slate quarry, the TV is still a perfectly acceptable metric. Although obviously you need to add screen size (32 inch being scary but manageable, 84 inch + being death on a stick).  

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

A convection oven is pretty close in size and dimension to a 90s TV I reckon. 

In reply to NorthernGrit:

You beat me too it! Really should read replies before posting...

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

We should be revising our kitchen appliances to be relevant to the household of a millennial:

Waffle maker

Air fryer

Espresso machine

In reply to GrahamD:

Well hark you you fancy pants with your built in microwave... 

In reply to Connor Nunns:

50% larger? Poppycock. This term was invented when it was hard to see the screen it was so small... bloody good job what with the picture being crap. 

In reply to beardy mike:

You pick me up on built in microwave but not wine fridge ??

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Surely for flakes we should be referring to takeaway pizza box sizes? "Unfortunately a full Dominos 2for1 deal with wedges and dips has just fallen off [any route on a sea cliff or slate]."

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Can only assume they're working feverishly on their new app, Trundlr

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

When you order from Amazon, everything smaller than a big TV comes in the same size of box, so I say ‘Amazon Box’. 

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Now we are in the sunlit uplands, I expect all blocks to be black and have a crown mark irrespective of size.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

How about the hotel room mini-fridge? I think they’re a pretty standard size and they have the advantage that those amongst us who are members of rock bands will almost certainly have thrown one from a hotel window so have some idea of their behaviour in flight. 

In reply to GrahamD:

Maybe we should focus on the luggage required to transport the alcohol past the No. 10 security scanner, rather than its final destination in the press office. Obviously, there is a very wide range of baggage available depending on the type of work event being hosted. Sharing a bottle of expensive single malt with a prospective secret donor to the soft furnishing fund would only require a discreet hand-tooled leather Chanel man bag, whereas the full DJ on the children's swing event would need a top of the range Louis Vuitton trunk. I think such a metric could translate quite well from blockheads to blocks.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

A carrycot sized block?  Fairly constant within bounds.

In reply to Andy Clarke:

For No10 that'd be The full Louis Vuitton:  Porte Manteau Valise  (on wheels and opens out like a mini wardrobe so all your suits can remain on the hangers) at least. probably any block smaller than this https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomhughestom/4438942823 would be disregarded follow the No10 drinks methodology

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder: Climbers using the Lower Wye Valley guide have a handy reference for sizing blocks on page 416: a photo of me toting a fridge found on the ledge above Valley Forge. I was p*ssed off as it appeared just after I finished clearing the glass shards of a TV tube from the same place.

In reply to wercat:

No use for people without children, and let's face it, that's a high proportion  of active climbers.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

My blender.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

We should just start talking about a case of beer. And specify that this be 24 bottles (~0.33 L per bottle) in a plastic carrycase (you still have those in that side of the canal, right?).

which Oddly enough is also still about the size of a microwave oven (tabletop or built-in, as the latter only has big fancy bezels) or those orig. Tellies. The ones Achie Bunker watches. 

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

A camping fridge sized block

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

A friend living in France mentioned "le grand piano" in this context. 

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

<Applause>

In reply to alibrightman:

Le Grand Piano would be one hell of a trundle !

What with Chopin your rope and all.

In reply to Nigel Coe:

What sized fridge was that? can you give us context please compared to say, a loose block or something

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Living in a house with 3 and 7 year old girls and having the house full of their things. I'm have started using phrases like "oh it's the size of a barbie dream house", or "barbie campervan" but I can see this being an issue for people without young girls. I do ask my climbing partners to familiarise themselves with Barbie accessories for ease but I understand the whole climbing community might not appreciate thus

Washing machines and combi boilers are a pretty generic size but I do see the issue with TV/microwave size blocks. Storage boxes could be a useful alternative. "There's a block the size of a 32litre under the bed storage box" for thinner blocks and standard box sizes for other blocks. 

In reply to GrahamD:

I think we are looking at this problem the wrong way round.  What we need is to define standard sizes for blocks B0, B1, B2... and employ a team of skilled sculptors to break bits off the existing loose blocks until fit the standard sizes.

In reply to mountainbagger:

Thanks. I had to wait a lot longer than I expected for this post.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

It was buffering on my set so I only just got it….

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

In "the Mountains of My Life" Walter Bonatti always describes them as "car-sized". But then, haven't most of his routes collapsed anyway?

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

I was surprised it hadn't been explicitly acknowledged so I thought I'd bring you resolution before you pulled the plug.

In reply to beardy mike:

they should have better memories!  They will have been in a carrycot most likely

In reply to mountainbagger:

And when you trundle a TV sized block from the top of the crag you get a good aerial view.

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Excellent. However watermelons vary in size massively. You get the ‘giant’ ones here but those would barely be considered average in Russia, for example.

Fridges and freezers also vary in size considerably. Fridge freezers less so perhaps.

You haven’t mentioned cars and vans. These also vary in size but that is probably less of an issue because you’re unlikely to survive to debate it afterwards. 

I would suggest an oven as a substitute for a TV. Still some variability but I think fair to say that most people would see it as something several times larger than a microwave but not quite as large as a washing machine.

A photocopier could occupy the space between a washing machine and a fridge freezer.

Edit - thread of the year so far!

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

With modern flatscreens, surely TV's can only be applied to flakes? 

IE "Watch out, the only option I had was to place a cam behind the hollow sounding 60 inch Bravia OLED"

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

I'd propose we re-allocate TV's to loose flakes and introduce the 'Beer fridge' for those wobbly blocks you can climb over but wouldn't belay off.

Jk