UKH

I feel overweight!

My rack and pack always feel heavy, I'm off to Morocco soon and want to save some weight. 

The below is the multipitch rack for me and my partner, I tend to take this as a minimum going to most venue's unless I have some additional knowledge about gear or pitch length. 

I have also included a list of things that I have but don't always pack (unless it's a short approach)

What would you add/remove?

4 x  long draws

4 x alpine draws (6mm dyneema)

DMM nuts 1-11 (over 2 carabineers)

DMM Offsets 

Dragon cams 00 - 5 ( little blue to big blue)

2 x (one set stays on each person) - 

HMS with 240cm sling
Locker with 120cm sling
3 lockers
Wire gate with 2 prusiks and a 60cm sling 
Nut key
Guide mode device with oval locker

Things I don't take -

DMM brass offsets
2 alpine draws
No. 7 cam (big purple)
DMM hexes
Wild country Nuts 1-10 (racked on two carabineers)
A friend has another set of dragons I can borrow if required

I feel like we have a lot of slings and lockers, although I find I can easily use it all if I'm building a 3 nut belay with the second on guide mode. 

Any advice and insights welcome!

I climb up to VS

Doesn't look far off to me if your wanting to pitch a VS in a safe style. It all depends on what you're doing and how far you're willing to run a pitch out. Travelling abroad I personally use a little more caution, even with the specialised travel insurances like Snowcard. We have a great MRT and NHS here that will kick into action if you get injured but whilst I don't wish to insult the Moroccan system, I've no idea if that would work as well over there.

By contrast, myself and my wife had a day up on Gillercomb in the lakes on a steady 4a severe and just took a set of nuts, 5 quick draws and 6 tiny lockers with 2 slings as the route was well within our grade.

There are some very light options out there now. Ocun do a very light quickdraw that looks more like something I'd hang my keys on. Not the most dextrous piece of gear but really brings those grams down. I like the very light harnesses, quite a bit of saving there.

looks ok but light on qds (only 8) but your dragons have extendable slings so not an issue unless a long wandering pitch.  The only thing i may change to save weight is to switch out the lockers on slings for snaps and drop the 60cm sling from wiregate, but ths not much weight.

you can use the rope to build your belay to save slings unless block leading.

It doesn't sound like you have a lot of stuff. 5 screwgates per person sounds a bit much though, I usually have 3.

you might consider

ditch all but 2 lockers - you need 1 for your belay device and (maybe) 1 on your belay loop - replace all the others with open gates 

Open gates - phantoms are best biner, edelrid 19g and Ocun - really light and small but just marginally slower to clip in extremis 

240cm - ditch that and use rope where possible

6mm beal slings all round

Decathlon 22 ltr sprint rucksack - 350g - they do a bigger version but 22 is good

Addax harness 150 g - don't plan any aid climbing or bigwalls otherwise it's fine 

Ditch nut key - tap them with a biner 

HTH

Edit - the 7.5 mms mammut ropes are really light but take some getting used to

As well as the initial weight saving here you're likely to make additional weight savings along the way as your rack diminishes.

You haven't mentioned what ropes you're using but this is by far the largest contributor to pack weight. The difference between carrying 60m 8.5 (~48g/m) or 50m 7.5 (~38g/m) is a full kilogram per rope. 

However if your pack feels heavy it's worth considering if you're using one with an insufficient back system. Ironically a slightly heavier pack can be far more comfortable with the same weight due to a heavier but much more featured back system. 

Hope this helps  

Thanks for the tip, good to hear that I'm not lugging around loads of useless gear. 

Looks like I can shed some weight by reducing lockers and slings a little but it's only marginal. I was always taught to use lockers for every part of the anchor and in recent years I've found it not to be essential with most multi point anchors. Although I don't have any wire gates to replace them with. 

I use a pair of 60m Beal cobra 8.6 ropes, for longer stuff. I also have a 50m 10mm and a 70m 9mm. 

My pack is a Montain Fast Alpine. 

When I first started climbing with a set of nuts and hexes I didn't care about weight at all, looking mostly for the cheapest gear. All of my gear is in pretty good condition so I'll have to give it a few more years before I can start replacing it with lightweight alternatives.

It does feel a bit light on draws, maybe I'll take my extra 2 to Morocco as they will have some longer pitches.

The 60cm sling is good for abseil extension and doubles as a foot loop when climbing a rope. 

My partner doesn't comfortably lead VS so I try to build sling belays on the harder routes to give a little more flexibility if she doesn't like the look of the next pitch.

Just get some bigger legs?

Maybe it's fitness/ familiarity to carrying said pack?

How far are you walking? At least you don't need a 100m ab and 3litres of water?

'm more than happy carrying the weight, it just feels like a lot (I've been sport climbing in Italy all summer) 

I just did a little weight in with all my kit in a bag for life - 12.3kg

2 pairs of shoes

2 x 60m ropes

2 helmets

2 chalk bags

Rack

You might have a point but we never carry nut keys and the last time I recall leaving a piece was voluntarily on some horrible traverse in white ghyll, oh hang on I managed to weld a red offset on Scafell about 5 yrs ago - I drop way more than i get stuck 

Tapping them out is way quicker than mucking about with a nut key - when you reach a piece, unclip biner from rope, tap nut with biner (already in your hand) lift nut out - works a treat 

i think addition draws is a good idea and having played around with small racks i find they just end up costing you time and patience and sometimes the route 

Unless the gear is too small to be hit with a crab. Must admit I rarely carry a nut key but I do have to pinch someone else's when a brassie gets stuck 

'Unless the gear is too small to be hit with a crab'

It's a good point, you're down to wiggling then, maybe a rock or stick - i climb fairly modest grade and follow my mate up low egrade so maybe that makes a difference, we dont fall off very much and maybe lakes rock is easier to extract 

I'm maybe stating the obvious here, but I don't think you've mentioned it in the thread. Do you split your rack and gear with your partner? ~6.15kg doesn't seem like a lot of weight each. 

We share the load.

However, today we are going to the Wye Valley and I planned on racking up at the car, I have everything in one shopping bag. It feels excessive when you pick it all up in one hand which is why I started the post. (And because I've been enjoying lightweight road side sport climbing) 

Tbh I'm glad that it's the standard weight and I've not been lugging everything around for years. 

10 lockers seem excessive and you definitely don't need 2 nut keys.

Given that your cams have extendable slings I may consider a couple less QDs if I was desperate to save weight.

It's a minimalist rack for adventurous VS trad, given that neither of you is climbing with lots of grades in hand. I'm not saying this is "the right answer", but personally I would take 12 extenders minimum if I was anticipating long (i.e. 40m) pitches and 20 - 25 nuts; possibly a second 0.75 (green) or 1 (red) cam. If it feels heavy, think about other things, e.g. clothing, water, food. And if it still feels heavy, you may just need to face the fact squarely that trad is not sport climbing!

But that will only work with larger nuts in shallow placements.

What confuses me is partners who like to lead with a nut key and expect me to have another to second with.

[kitlist]

I would take a slightly larger rack (more QDs / slingdraws, double up on nuts) and split it between you and your partner. Whoever leads gets the whole rack, second gets a nut key and perhaps a sling + screwgate. 

I sometimes miss having a nut key when leading to clean placements but the wire loop on a rock does a great job 

I figured you would. Just when you said you weighed it all together it made me think otherwise. 

Your rack is very similar to mine although I take more quickdraws (10-12), slings and, until recently, I carried up to number 14 nuts. I have been trying to strip back recently too but this just ends up with me ditching the larger nuts and sometimes the offsets. For all the extra the slings weigh I usually just take them. They're racked on an empty screw gate or round my chest anyway. 

If I was going to Morocco, and I'd be climbing similar grades, I wouldn't drop anything from that rack. If anything, I'd add more draws but you might be happier than me to run things out. 

I haven't been but have heard that cams are king there. If that's the case then I'd be inclined to shoulder a few 60cm slings with single snappers on to extend runners and carry maybe 6 alpine draws on my harness. Probably wouldn't bother with normal QDs; not very versatile. You could probably ditch some lockers with that, as you'd generally have some spare and accessible snappers to use at belays. you only really need 2 locking krabs, for belaying.

The quartzite isn't ridiculously cam-hungry but if you're climbing longer pitches near your limit then there might be a good case for doubles of silver/purple/green cams.

(Side note: whilst the grading there tends to be slightly soft, do keep in mind that there's not really any rescue service and keep a few grades in hand accordingly)

On intermediate belays, I tend to apply a rule that says any krab that's a single point of catastrophic failure needs to be a locker. Otherwise snapgates are acceptable.

But back-to-back snappers are as safe (or safer?) than lockers and have many uses. The lighter snapgates weigh low 20s grams and lighter screwgates tend to come in in the 40s so you're not gaining any weight by swapping out lockers. I'm not usually very weight-conscious but if I were I'd probably only carry 2 locking krabs. One pear for my belay device and one phantom hms/petzl attache for dem clove-hitches. An alpine draw could weigh the same as a locking krab and have several more uses. 

I don't see how it can if its a no. 1 or 2 nut? Possibly not with a 3 or 4 either particularly if its seated some way into a crack.

The only time when I don't take a nut key is when winter climbing when you have ice tools that do the same job if needed.

been through a big rack weightloss a few years ago. I helps a lot on big mountain crags. 

Ditch the big blue cam and the 240cm sling.

The best weight saving I made was moving to lighter quickdraws, I had a load of old DMM quickdraws, I think they were the original spectre snap gates on them. whatever they were they weighed in at 45g per biner.

my usual multipitch rack of 12 quickdraws meant I was lugging around over a kilo of biners just on quickdraws. I swapped them out to Ocun Kestrel's at 25g each and saved 480g off my rack without having to reduce any capability.

you could go lighter with edelrid 19g's. but I liked the slightly larger size of the kestrel. they've hit the sweet spot in size vs weight perfectly for me. my mates quickdraws now seem weirdly large though. 

you have  sling draws already, use one of them, or make it part of your rack, over shoulder with a  small krab.  

yep, but if weight is your top priority she can use her rope into your belays (clip her own krabs into the wires/cams and use her rope). Lots more faff and time but lighter.  

I'd consider leaving the big blue cam,  (can take a large blue dmm hex instead or not, lighter route/rock/area dependent)

I only carry 1 dedicated prussic, i have my chalk bag on 5mm cord and have slings i can use as well if required.

i really don't think it's a heavy/large rack, as many others have said, buy light gear. 

Quickdraws with 22/25g krabs and skinny slings make a surprising difference. You can get super skinny 120s/240s on  6/8mm dyneema. Lightweight lockers and reduce the number  (I only carry a belay plate locker plus 1 Petzl attache 3d + 2 grivel plumes - all light (DMM phantom HMS+Phantoms are similar)   and worth the slight weight penalty over non lockers for me.

weigh your rucsac, shoes, clothes etc, might find some easy wins there

This will cost  quite a bit of money but that's what trying to save wight involves

Assuming you carry one, a knife could be used in extremis on very small nuts.

all i can say is you should give it a go, maybe while your nut key is still on your harness

Tapping - I think it's got a couple of positive effects, rather than just ragging the nut out (our other option) its much gentler on the wires and in addition its gentle on the placement 

phantom biner - the bit you tap with is about 7mm wide 

As if foreign, remote, multi-pitch trad wasn't dangerous enough, we're now adding stabbing into the mix!

Genuine question: Which part of my post at 09.51 are the dis;likes for?

Also useful in extremis when your partner's dangling on the end of the rope and you've forgotten your escaping the system and hauling techniques. Great precedents on the Matterhorn in 1865 and more recently on Siula Grande.

Not me but could be your stance on nut keys?

To me, they fall into personal gear and each climber should have it on their harness. I always have one while leading in case I need to use for threads, digging out placements, or knocking out shit nuts that I need to place better. 

Passing gear between leader and second should be one-way really. Swapping nut keys back to the second would confuse things and you might forget to do it. 

I imagine the 2x60m ropes are a major part of that weight and perhaps an area where weight could be reduced. Either moving to thinner ropes, shorter length or a single rope could be options with advantages/disadvantages depending on terrain and why weight needs to be reduced.

Everything else seems fairly lean already 

It would be great to hear about some of your plans for Morocco (or planning resources you've found useful), the surf is ace I'd quite like to get there for climbing one day.

I'm shocked by all the nut key heresy on this thread, surely any amount of nut keys other than one per pair is madness? I mean what do people make their sandwiches with?

Ps to the OP, I'm off to Morocco in a few weeks, probably looking to climb a bit harder then you, but I am literally taking a rack twice as big as yours (which my wife makes me carry all of) so that looks positively lightweight to me.

Yeah. I didn't click dislike on Rob's post but I'm with you on this. I carry a nut key whether I'm leading or seconding for exactly the reasons you list. It's not unusual to have to excavate a gear placement, especially if you climb away from honeypot crags. Tbh I thought it was pretty standard practice - I'd never even considered sharing one with my second.

I normally climb with a pair of 60m 8.5mm halves. We switched to 8mm 50s earlier this year and the difference on walk ins is incredible! Though the downside is that their extreme stretchiness is quite unhelpful when you find yourself flailing about at the bottom of a long pitch of something that's too hard... "take, take! No, more than that, oh FFS I'll just frig on the gear"

I'm not keen on leading with a key, partly because it's one more thing on the gear loops and partly because I think it could do a mischief if you fell awkwardly. But each to their own.

For me the norm has always been to share a nut key. But it's something I always seem to be losing for some reason, so I have tended to rely on partners having one. Hence getting caught out by the occasional partner who expects to lead with one.

This looks a reasonable rack to me. I know you're trying to save weight, but in all honesty, I would be taking some extra long draws, double small and mid size wires and some doubled cams if I knew I was going to be climbing big adventure routes somewhere remote.

Also, I like having a nut key when I'm leading. Wires get stuck in the wrong place and need a prod, they're good for threads and the second always forgets to pass it over when changing gear at the belay. If the weight of a nut tool means the difference between success and failure then eat one less sausage at breakfast time. 

The pitches are long in Morocco so your rack looks on the light side. Anyway surely if you can carry this on a route it can't be too heavy to carry out. 

One trick is to put the heaviest things (cams) in your hand luggage. My brother takes his tool kit that weighs over 20kgs in a shoulder bag. 

And pack everything else in one hold all. You can quite easily lift a strap when it's on the conveyor. I saw a diver do that with his weight belt once and he got that transported as a 5kg bag! 

So now you can take more get yourself some 60cm quickdraws so you have at least 12. 

Your micros can stay behind. There isn't any need for them in Morocco.

And finally make sure your helmet is in your hand luggage or it will get trashed by luggage handlers.

Not really necessary to use lockers to build the all the belay, snap gates will do in most situations - if in doubt, you can always use a pair of opposed snaplinks from QDs.

That said, I tend to use lightweight screwgates on slings.

I assume all your QDs are wire gate - most of mine are so old, they're all solid gate!

on the subject of nut keys, i always carry one, usually on lead as well, esp on mountains

you can get a very light (if not totally robust) metolius one

https://rockrun.com/products/metolius-feather-nut-tool?variant=31455891912

Whereas I figure I've got tonnes of shit hanging off my harness anyway, one more krab and dangly thing isn't going to make much difference. I can't think of a single time I've found myself cursing having a nutkey on lead but plenty where it's been really useful.

How do you deal with fiddly threads, poorly placed nuts and filthy placements if you don't have one? More to the point, how do you clear away cobwebs with big malevolent looking spiders squatting in them?

Close your eyes, propel the gear in the direction of the mud/beast filled crack with all your might and quickly climb past without thinking too hard it telling yourself its bomber....

Well this got a brilliant response, thanks UKC! 

In summary I'll take all 10 of my draws, double nuts and borrow another purple/green/red cam. 

Looking at my rack I've got almost 30 wire gates so chasing the grams here should provide a good saving.

The post wasn't really because I found my kit to heavy to carry, but because my dad was shocked "you tie all that round you and climb a mountain!" It made me wonder if it was just me. 

UKC wit at its best. 🤣🤣

I reckon a cam would do more damage - at least the nut key would bend.

Worst injury I've ever had was from falling across the rope!

I rarely used to carry one leading but recently I've found myself needing to dig out crucial gear placements pretty frequently, and not just on remote crags either. 

I'd switch out the cams for the hexes you have taken out.

Major weight saving.  My go to for alpine climbing.  I do like cams ( don't we all) but I predate them so physiologically can do without when I'm going light.

I'd rather do this than drop rope weight too far having experienced rope damage on multi pitch rock....

For what it is worth (I haven't read all the posts so will be repeating some advice) if you really want to drop the weight I would take a forensic approach: get out the kitchen scales,  manufactures' specs showing the size of each piece (don't believe their stated weights!) and a bit of graph paper. Weigh each bit of gear and map the sizes (remember nuts fit in two [3 if hex] different ways) and see where you have over-coverage of sizes, be brutal and ditch the heavier bits. Weigh everything else you carry and ask yourself if you really need them. A bit of an anal approach but effective.

Possibly controversial: leave the cams, the double set you mention weighs ~1700g. Replace one set of Rockcentrics  (~450g)  (BD Hexes are an alternative, your Torque nuts but start at the same size as Rockcentric 5 but have the advantage of a double sling). Other than Yosemite I have never felt the need for a double set of cams and they don't help the leader if, as you suggest, they are on the second's harness! Similarly I have never felt inconvenienced when carrying only one set of the larger Hexes.

50m skinny ropes save a lot of weight compared to 60m standard 8.5mm half ropes.

Finally and crucially buy/borrow a small and light rucksack, check the weight, you can save a sizeable 700g+ compared to a typical 45l pack and a smaller bag is easier to climb with. My personal preference is for 30l rather than 20-25l, if everything you want to take won't fit in it will focus your mind on what not to take! Whatever you take/don't take will be a compromise. In the long run you might want to buy the lightest gear you can afford, with lightweight gear you usually get less for more.

I have been through the above steps to compensate for increasing age and decreasing strength. This is what I would normally carry for multi pitch mountain crag routes (ie like Morocco) in your grade range:  

BD Stoppers 3 - 11, split over 2 crabs

WC Superlight and offset rocks, 1 set plus a couple of brass wires, below Rock/Walnut size 1, split over 2 crabs.

Rockcentrics 3-7, individual crabs - if necessary these can be used as extra quickdraws.

10 Quickdraws, 6 x 18 or 25cm and 4 x alpine (phantom, spectre 2 or helium crabs).

2 x 120cm slings with phantoms

2 x phantom screw gates

Personal kit: helmet, harness, belay device and lightweight HMS (eg phantom HMS), nut key, chalk bag (optional), one prusik loop (use 5mm accessory cord on your Chalk bag, this is the second prusik loop), Trango piranha knife, phantom crab to carry loop & knife.

I would add a single set of previous generation Friends to size 4 if climbing on granite (remember most mountain crag rock isn't granite) and leave the Hexes behind.

Whatever you carry you will have a great time.

Which krabs do you have on your cams? Swapping standard ones for edelrid nineteen g (actually they weigh 19.5g) may save you weight. Same story with the nut side of the quickdraws. Those krabs are rated 20kN which is more than wired nuts

Yes, granite or not. Few people seem to realise how well Friends complemented the various Camalot clones before they joined them, with the sizes interleaving really nicely. My standard rack is a set of each.

I'm surprised how many people are saying they'd take hexes - this isn't the early '80's!

Hexes are still great long after the end of the 80s (they actually date from about '72)! Lightweight, simple to use, easy to judge the placement and bombproof, especially in irregular cracks which don't necessarily suit cams. Cams excel in regular sided cracks as found on granite, grit and sandstone. 

Yes, but cams are so much more versatile. I think carrying hexcentrics is now seen as a bit eccentric (except in winter).

As always it is horses for courses. I suspect that many of those of us who learned to protect routes before the first Friends were a twinkle in Ray Jardine's eyes think slightly differently about cams. My approach is to use cams where I can't get a secure nut so I don't reach for them first in most cases. Old fashioned or not, in the context of saving weight on a rack I think the cam/hex choice deserves serious consideration.

Or each to their own.

I learnt to climb with hexes and without cams up to about HVS, but within a couple of years of getting my first Friend in about 1983, I'd completely abandoned hexes and have not carried them since in summer.

Because of cams' greater versatility, I would see carrying hexes as a weighty specialist luxury in addition to cams rather than a way of saving weight. On the few occasions I've had a partner who has insisted on carrying hexes I've certainly not reduced my rack of cams even if I have to carry half of them seconding.

I carry rocks up to No. 10 and obviously wouldn't use a small cam where I cam get a better nut.

Re-nut keys. I tend to use mine quite a lot. Mostly on small nuts deeply set (beyond the reach of a biner) or walked in cams for which two keys is often essential. Often found those with the hook on the end for reaching a cam trigger useful too.

Of course most of the time a good shake or a tap will get things out.

We have one hex on our rack, can't remember the size but a little bigger than our biggest nut so not huge. The aim is to place it at least once on the route. It's a little game we have

The nut key is racked on a bailout biner / emergency extra belay biner in any case.

Thinking back when we went to Sinai (desert climbing before any sports developement) we took:

10 quickdraws (including 4 long ones)

2 long slings

2 short slings

6 locking biners

1 set nuts 1 - 11 (on 2 wire gate crabs)

1 set friend cams 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5 (on 2 wire gate crabs)

nut key each

prussics

ATC belay each

2 60m 8.5 ropes

2 harnesses

That's just good practice regardless of your vintage.

This is a way to save some weight rather than racking cams individually. It also makes for a less cluttered harness. It slightly negates the advantage of extendable sling cams like dragons and it makes them a little slower to place but no more so than a nut. I tend to just have 2 cams per crab though.

I know some climbers who hate this approach but it works for me.

Does it actually save much weight by the time you account for having to carry extra quickdraws for clipping any cams you place that don't have their own krab though?

I don't think I do carry extra draws in comparison to the other people I climb with. Those who rack cams singly seem to carry the same amount of draws as me! Even if there isn't much of a weight saving there's still the harness clutter thing.

've only been climbing for 4 years, most of my kit is new so I won't be upgrading anytime soon. All my crabs are DMM spectra so heavy and cheap compared to the lightweight alternatives. 

I wasn't really looking to shed weight, just a validation that I have the right stuff. 

In future when I buy new kit I think I'll look at the weight more than the price as it does add up more than you would expect! 

As others have said, a few more draws and drop a locking biner or two, but that’s a pretty sensible rack. Do you always need the #11 wire? Obviously, what goes onto your harness will vary according to the route and rock you are about to get on. A couple of micros can be handy and weigh next to nothing, so I’d include them with the smallest wires. I also generally rack small cams in pairs.

But would you use a big cam where you could get a better nut? If the answer is still no then what logical reason is there for panning hexes? 

I like having hexes green, red, yellow on any long or multi-pitch routes, because you'll get them in on most sub-extremes. And comparably, they weigh very little. If only they didn't jangle! 

I'm not panning hexes. Of course there are placements where a hex is the ideal option. Same with tricams, ball nuts etc. etc.  But you can't reasonably carry a set of everything. I'm simply saying that I prefer to stick with cams because of their greater verstaility for a reasonable weight of rack.

Racking several cams on the same krab is utter madness. Complete faff when placing them and no weight saving due to the need to carry more quickdraws. Nothing worse than a partner who does this and you have to bring extra krabs and rack them properly at every changeover.

Like I said, some hate it. Works for me. I hate the clutter that comes with single racking. Plus, you've got two shots at getting the right size...  

I used to have a similar competition with a guy I climbed with, but that was to get a thread in somewhere

Having two or three hexes can be quite useful on big routes to build belays from when you want to keep all your cams for plugging in on the pitch above when speed is of the essence. They are relatively light for that sort of role. This is a pic of the stuff I took on Sydpillaren on Stetind, which is as hard a route as any I've climbed, and has lots of full length pitches where I wanted to be able to plug in plenty of runner quickly. So a few hexes seemed a good idea. Although I only carry all my Torque Nuts when winter climbing these days I guess. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4wZ5f_3h1-M/UiWzXzEBswI/AAAAAAAAGk0/DXMGpSciq6c/s...

Sorry, but I don't follow this logic. If Hexes save weight, then what would you say if I just suggested you ditch the cams and carry a lot more hexes? And, if your answer were that you carry cams because they are more versatile, then I'd ask you why bother with the hexes at all.

You've got to put something in the belay, so I don't get why you would argue the hexes are particularly suited to this. Why not just take more cams - you'll still have just as many cams left for the next pitch as if you'd belayed on your hexes and you're not risking having to use some of fewer cams in the belay and being very short on the next pitch.

I can't remember what we took on Sudpillaren the two times I've done it, but I suspect that it was pretty much equivalent to that minus the hexes (fewer cams than I'd usually take because we'd have had a grade or two in hand).

A good weight-save if you're using cams at belays could be tri-cams. They weigh a third of a cam. I would stick to firing cams in on lead but a couple of tri-cams at a belay can be great and save cams for the next pitch. 

ditto

I was thinking this seemed about right until I realised you are carrying a set of cams each. If one is on each climber, what's the point? The leader can't use them? Or have I misunderstood that?

Personally, for VS, unless I'm climbing somewhere extra dicey, I'd take something like this

2 sets of superlight and superlight offset rocks (these are a great way to save some weight)

a set of cams and micro cams from tiny blue top big blue unless I knew the big blue wasn't warrented

Maybe 3 rocks 11-13 to double up in those big sizes

10-12 extenders, including most long and 4 alpine draws using as light biners as I have got, especially for rock you can get away with really tiny light ones

4 120cm slings each with a wire gate

2 spare lockers per climber for belays, one being an HMS, and personally I have become an Autolocker convert for that HMS as it prevents you from goofing when you're tired.

maybe 3-4 loose wiregates to build belays with

2-3 Prusicks, spare tat and a knife on a biner.

Nut key between 2

Belay plate, a light standard one, plus a kong plate for the leader as they are damned light, plus locking biners.

Personally I like using a Petzl Connect or equivalent personal anchor lanyard as it makes moving around the belay much easier, or if you are leading in blocks, swapping at the belay is dead easy.

If you are thinking about making purchases, he biggest gains you can make are ropes and light biners. 

Ah I missed the double rack of cams! You could definitely do as Mike advises and drop some of those in favour of micro cams. 

I think I have some deep-seated prejudice or at least belief that it is better to build belays from passive gear than from cams because *waves hands a bit* simpler, less to go wrong etc blah blah. So back in the old days when I only had 6 or so cams I'd definitely try and "save them" for the climbing, because they are much quicker to place and so on, and use nuts and hexes for the belays. Now I have plenty of cams I rarely even take the torque nuts out when I'm cragging locally, but still have the feeling that I want a few bigger passive pieces on multipitch routes for the belays.

A big blue torque nut is definitely lighter than a big blue dragon, so if you are happy to use them for some things, there is a slight weight advantage over taking two big blue cams.

The other thing I often do is carry my main gear selection on a bandolier and extenders on my gear loops as it speeds up swapping the kit over at belays. If you want to go light, it could just be an old style flat and fat tape sling. Or Metolius do nice ones. They aren't to everyones taste, but on multipitch, gear changeovers are what slow you down. Anything you can do to save time at the belays will pay dividends. 

And the final other thing to say is, do you REALLY need double ropes? How long are the pitches? Would a 30m thin single do the job of getting you down in a pinch? I have no idea what the climbing is like there so ignore me if it's all long pitches...

Agree with beardy mike about considering single rope if appropriate to the climbing area. In this case if long descents/retreats necessary it might be worth considering a Beal Escaper to ab the complete length of the rope. This is actually quite safe as the first person abbing has a knot on the Escaper to prevent release and which allows monitoring for any possible slippage during the decent (unlikely unless repeatedly unweighting rope during ab), and thus the last person follows on a tested setup. It can require a lot of repeated tugging to release, and it does need an anchor allowing easy rope run (or sacrificing a krab) to work well. Obviously practice use beforehand.

Had forgotten about the escaper. As long as you have single point anchors they work amazingly well. Have also seen a method posted by Bliss climbing on the tube about how you can extend the escape to allow you to use multi point anchors...

I find the easiest way to save weight is to either use skinnier or shorter (50mts) ropes. Decathlon 8.1mm 50mts are a huge weightsaver compared to old Mammut Genesis 8.9mm 60mts. YOur rack looks fine, I only carry two lockers, one for the device and another to clovehitch myself to the belay. My spare biners are 3 DMM phantoms.

I personally absolutely hate having a bandolier of gear flopping around so I can't see my feet*. I  would also question them speeding up changeovers unless both climbers like racking them up the same way; otherwise the gear will need rearranging anyway. I think a key to speeding things up is, as far as possible, for the second to rack things on their harness where they want them as they take them out.

Obviously a weight saver but you will then probably need to carry and be encumbered by a good range of extenders to avoid rope drag unless you are just climbing straight up cracks. And you would of course be creating issues with abseiling or either bailing or descending.

*Unless it's one of those vest ones I have used with a  big winter rack.

I would contest that cams are easier or quicker to place except on clean granite or Indian Creek style cracks (both of which are generally lacking in the UK). I think many people mistakenly take the view that you can just stuff a cam in and trust it when, in fact, you should ideally check that all four lobes are well seated; I think it is very often less obvious whether a cam is well placed than a nut or hex.

Yes, but I still think at the cost of versatility.

Totally agree with what you've said. Bandos are marmitey for sure and both leaders need to be on the same page. I use them sometimes but most of the time not.

And as I said for the rope, if you need a double rope, that's what you need. But do you really need it? I've been happy enough climbing certain long VS routes in the Dolomites with a long single because the abseils are spaced at 25-30m and I feel comfortable at that grade, with the mindset that up is the way off. But that's only me and I will change my strategy according to the route. Like you say, if it's a wandering line it can be a real PITA having a single rope. I just wanted to put it out there because by and large Brits are so transfixed by double ropes, they never consider the alternatives (like the escaper.)

Stomach is usually the big win

Had a little play with the scales yesterday. 

Upgrading all my wire gates would give a good saving 250g+ this is going to cost about £250. 

The same amount of weight can saved by dropping a large cam or the HMS with a 240 sling. (Or any other gear that might not be used) 

I have however ordered some 6mm slings to replace my 120 & 240 11mm slings. Not a huge savings but they looked ratty and the the 6mm sling is much more on compact. Now I can put both the 120 & 240 on one HMS and remove one locker. 

Plus I reduced from 3 to 2 lockers per person. 

I am a big fan of a single, however as Morocco has lots of big routes I'll take the half's as they are more versatile.