UKH

I'm doing some research for a book and am looking for a definitive answer on this one.... Is Yorkshire grit harder than Peak District grit?

After a lot of time climbing at Ilkley, Baildon Bank, Hetchell and Almscliffe I remember heading down to Stanage and Froggatt and being astonished by the amount of holds, features and gear placements.

After my 25-year research "improving" holds with my lump hammer across grit in the Peak and Yorkshire, I can definitively and positively say that Yorkshire grit is harder

you mean in terms of the range of grades and how many routes in each grade? or how stiff the grading is?

I mean how stiff the grading is... Is a HS on Stanage easier than a HS in Yorkshire?

Ah now there's some worthy research! Would you say you find more holds that need "improving" in Yorkshire or the Peak?

Technically, Stanage is in Yorkshire 

Is Hetchell not sandstone?

What sort of book?

The Peak. Also the sparks are different colours, yellow in the Peak, white in Yorkshire. I also get a lot more abuse from below in the Peak (bless them), don't know why. Good luck with your book 

It's a nature-writing book about trad climbing adventures across the UK. Each chapter is set in a different part of the UK, so I'm trying to reflect on the difference in character between Yorkshire grit and Peak grit

OK thanks - there are much more knowledgeable folk on here than me but this topic came up recently, and one of the pearls that was cast in my direction was that until the 70s the Yorkshire Mountaineering Club (who wrote the guides for Yorkshire grit) fixed the top grade at VS, hence a certain degree of grade compression / sandbagging was the result, hopefully the differences are being ironed out with each new series of guidebooks

Yes.

My 1969 Yorkshire Gritstone guide had grades of. Hard Very Severe and Extremely Severe.

I think that if you believe that's a meaningful question, let alone one with a definitive answer, then you probably should write a different book.

Thanks, just checked, the wording was "YMC were opposed to harder grades"

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rocktalk/font_grades_instead_of_uk_tech_g...

I can’t see how that would be given they already had harder grades than VS in their guides. Also Alan Austin the leading light of the YMC was writing guides for the Fell and Rock in the Lakes with grades up to Extreme.

The Leeds Uni club were sandbagging others with grades saying lots of standard grit Extremes were VS. I tied to lead Tippler at the end days climbing as I had been led to believe it was Yorkshire VS.

I fell off.

The answer is Staffordshire. 

I'm not sure why people seem to have a problem with this question. I'd say Yorkshire is definitely harder for the grade on average.

Are you including eg Ramshaw, Hen Cloud or Wimberry in your Peak average grade ?

Having started my climbing on Yorkshire grit (I lived 5 miles from Almscliffe) all I can say is that when we finally got to the Peak we could not believe how much easier stuff was grade-for-grade. I'm talking about the late 60s/early 70s and I think  climbers starting today may struggle to appreciate how just how parochial most climbing was in those days when car ownership was a comparative rarity. Back then, before people started nipping to Font for a weekend or  the Costa Blanca for a few days, Stanage seemed quite an exotic destination for us and the Lakes (all of 60 odd miles away) was a once-a-year treat. One result of that was some quite large differences between grades in areas.  All my early extremes were done in the Peak or the Lakes when I was still struggling on Yorkshire HVS.

With modern mobility maybe things are evening out. I'm so used to climbing in different areas now that I don't really notice  but people from other areas still complain to me about Almscliffe grades

There's no definitive answer. It's that simple.

Mick

I was. I think Western Grit is similar to the Yorkshire average but Eastern Grit is much easier so the Peak average is lower. Only an opinion!

Controversial. 

I thought most was in Derbyshire, but the further ends of the northern section you'd climb in Derbyshire and belay in Yorkshire. 

For what it's worth, I've found Yorkshire generally scarier, with gear further between than the eastern Peak.. not too dissimilar to the Roaches. Whaup Edge (VS 4b) was more trouser filling than some Peak E1s I've done! 

No it isn't, have a look at an OS map, the county boundary is either along the crag top for a short section around the northern edge but for most of the edge it is on the moor behind and well inside of Derbyshire.

That's what happens when you listen to a friend of a friend

Burbage is in South Yorkshire if it's any consolation. 

As is Rivlin and I guess a few others.

Story has it that Livesey had outdoor pursuits students  practicing aid climbing on Wellington Crack,to widen the jams.

….and Ray's Roof is in Staffs. First ascent by an American.

From an outsider who has dabbled a fair bit in both areas.

Yorkshire grit has tougher grades.

Yorkshire grit often has tougher conditions. (Further north?)

Yorkshire often has scarier looking or more intense looking roots. (I can't summon up the courage for Cow Udder or Bald Pate!)

Yorkshire grit is often more polished.

Staffordshire grit is the nicest, friendliest and bestist.

And yet, Brimham has the easiest E3 (on grit or any other rock type) I have ever done, anywhere.

Oh really......? 

Acme wall?

Yes

No. That was only HVS 5b in my guide.

Gritstone comes out c 6-7 on the MOHS scale. and, after extensive testing at the Peak and Yorkshire crags, Yorkshire is officially 0.6 softer.

https://rocks.comparenature.com/en/properties-of-gritstone/model-61-6

This is perhaps a bit of a limited sample but I found the Almscliffe VS challenge more difficult than the Stanage VS challenge, even though it has 16 fewer climbs and they are all clustered together.

So too did I in the same period, totally agree. And subsequent visits with the likes of Martin Harris and his mates, with me still tagging along at a reasonable standard for my age (70) simply confirmed that (N) Yorkshire grades were far stiffer. Franklin Green Crack was a horror show for me! Incidentally I can confirm the poster who stated that the 1969 guidebook had grades which were effectively open ended.  

Brimham also has Minion's Way at HVS

It's only given VS in my guide (although weighing in at 5a).