Good (i.e. soft) 7b to project on south coast?

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 Paul Sagar 21 Feb 2020

After being pointed in the helpful direction of Poison Ivy (7a+) on here last year, which ended up being my first 7a+, I'm looking to set myself a 7b project for 2020.

I've never long-term projected anything (Poison Ivy went down on my third go), so am willing to try something I may take months to get to the level of (I'm doing a pretty intense training programme over several months anyway, so this is fine).

Best bet for me is probably Portland or Swanage way. Would also be keen for recommendations of 7a+ climbs that I might also target as routes that will help me along the way to 7b. (I want to doPump Hitler (7a+) for its own sake, but do recommend more.)

Cheers!

Post edited at 18:38
6
 jezb1 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

The obvious answer is Empire of the Sun. Locals will tell you it’s 7b rather than the UKC 7b+, and it’s further SW, but it’s one of the best at the grade in the UK.

OP Paul Sagar 21 Feb 2020
In reply to jezb1:

Hmmm thanks but Devon is a bit far when you live in London for a project!

 kristian Global Crag Moderator 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Not trying to be funny or owt but you did a 7a+ quite quickly and your training hard so perhaps you should set your sights at a 7b+ or 7c because an easy 7b is going to be only half a grade harder. Once you get the nack of repointing your grade can jump significantly. Scour the guide books for inspiration. Don't be afraid of the big numbers and get stuck in!

2
 Sayon 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Brean down is worth considering- reasonable grades, often in good condition, and probably just as quick to get to as the Dorset crags. 

Removed User 21 Feb 2020
In reply to kristian:

Halfway to heaven (Wallsend South)

Colors for a soft touch 7b+ also at Wallsend South. 

Both of them aren't much harder than pump Hitler (if at all)

OP Paul Sagar 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Sayon:

Cheers never climbed there - will check it out 

 Sayon 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Iirc, clashing socks was reasonable for 7b, and chulilla also would be a good 7b+ project

 Mick Ward 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Stay Golden (bottom of the 7b grade), Sweet Smell of Success (middle), Frazzled (top), all beside each other. Colors, great route, maybe the best I've ever done on Portland but more like 7a/7a+ than 7b+.

Hope this helps. Whatever you get on, good luck!

Mick

1
 AJM 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

If you can get the right conditions (broadly speaking, sunshine, low humidity - 80% tends to be about the ceiling - bit of a breeze on the crag, turn up once the sun comes round) then the beach sectors at Wallsend have an abundance of things to try and overall it's probably the best sector on the Isle. Troll Team Special (7a+) to ease you in, then Ariane V (7b), anything from the cluster round Halfway to Heaven (7b), then Stay Golden (7b) and it's neighbours get a lot of praise.....

At Swanage, of the quarries Avenging the Halsewell (7b) is probably the best thing I've done, but again of you can get the conditions something at the promenade is probably the best, but I'm not sure what (Tessellations (7b) and it's neighbours I hear good things about)

Drifting slightly further afield, there's Empire of the Sun (7b) and Thread Flintstone (7b) in Devon and Still Waters Run Deep (7b) at cheddar that would be my pick of other southern things at that sort of grade.

 1poundSOCKS 21 Feb 2020
In reply to kristian:

> Not trying to be funny or owt but you did a 7a+ quite quickly and your training hard so perhaps you should set your sights at a 7b+ or 7c because an easy 7b is going to be only half a grade harder. Once you get the nack of repointing your grade can jump significantly.

You're right about the possibilities of quick grade progression once you start redpointing. People who don't indulge in projecting seem to underestimate what's possible. I did go on a grade chasing crusade a few years ago when I first got the bug. But the downside was I didn't tick many routes because I didn't understand the process of redpointing very well. Lots of wasted attempts and frustration.

To learn the process you need to see it though many times. Or at least I did. I think if I was in the OP's position I'd be tempted to tick more routes on the way through the grades, and refine my redpointing, before pushing the boat out on something more challenging. Redpointing can be frustrating. But if you learn the process and the approach it the right way it can be very rewarding.

 AJM 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Mick Ward:

> Colors, great route, maybe the best I've ever done on Portland but more like 7a/7a+ than 7b+.

Oof! 7a/+ means easier than Troll Team, same sort of league as Sang Chaud, only a small step up from Wolfgang.....

I can buy "not 7b+", but "potentially 7a" feels a bit of a stretch!

It is excellent mind you. Wouldn't argue with that at all.

In reply to Paul Sagar:

Tide Rising at Brean. (Is it really "top of the grade??")

Post edited at 20:25
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 AJM 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

> Tide Rising at Brean. (Is it really "top of the grade??")

Which grade? When I used to hang around a lot at Brean there were persistent (and in my view incorrect) mutterings that it was considered 7c! There’s a lot weird about Brean grading sometimes.

I thought it was ok for 7b+, and nice climbing. It also felt fairly “trainable” in that it’s fairly short and power endurancey and therefore the sort of thing that would respond well to the kind of long boulders or hard circuits that are fairly easy to do indoors.

 Kevster 21 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Avenging the Haswell at winspit is a good project, distinct sections. The end for me was stamina. It's often good in winter etc, so a decent project proposition, the 7a nearby is a good warm up too. 

Brean down, great place for a wintery project. The chullia area has some good routes, and some hybrids which vary the grade if you wish without having to learn a whole new route. 

Cuttings at portland. Everyone's favourite...... when the weathers not good for the other side of the isle. dumbfounded I think it's called. Thin slab, I'm 5ft 11. Theres a short persons way too. Easy to set a rope up on. It an ok route, but if you choose want out, also 7b, you'd get a greater satisfaction. If you're strong boulderer type I understand sign of the vulcan is a reasonable option too. 

Road rage might be another East coast proposition, but less to do around there for lower grade climbers, which may affect your belay options. 

There's a few ok routes in the Wye Valley and cheddar for a project, but some of the areas are not to everyone's tastes. 

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

It would be 7b on Portland!

In reply to AJM:

Yeah, I heard those noises but I dispatched it very quickly and I'm nothing special. Maybe I was having a good day, maybe it suits me, blah blah right style whatever but it's a good, accessible route to project so I'm standing by my recommendation.

Post edited at 21:21
 kristian Global Crag Moderator 21 Feb 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

The poster said they did a 7a+ in 3 goes and was looking for a challenge that may take several months. I think it is fair to say that an easy 7b won't necessarily fit the bill especially as there maybe little or no difference in difficulty between them. So by basic calculation I would suggest a route unquestionably harder than the one they did in 3 goes.

 1poundSOCKS 21 Feb 2020
In reply to kristian:

> The poster said they did a 7a+ in 3 goes and was looking for a challenge that may take several months. I think it is fair to say that an easy 7b won't necessarily fit the bill especially as there maybe little or no difference in difficulty between them. So by basic calculation I would suggest a route unquestionably harder than the one they did in 3 goes.

I agree. It was just a word of caution about overstepping the mark and ending up on something that stops becoming fun. I don't really look much beyond the next route these days. Although having a few long term ambitions is natural.

 dinodinosaur 21 Feb 2020
In reply to kristian:

I like Paul but he has done one low in the grade 7a+ (but it is still 7a+ and that should be noted, I'm not trying to take anything away from him), so doing any 7b will be a step up.

I'm not saying he couldn't or shouldn't have a long term 7c project but I know for me I get too bored if the project is too long and my progress stagnates waiting on either more strength gains or magic beta.

What would be more sensible is the approach Paul is actually asking for which is doing something of the next grade up, this should see him tick it quickly. Then if he feels he can do harder he can move up. I do sometimes wonder why people rush up the grades to tick the hardest routes when there are loads of great routes and grades in between. 

Plus as you redpoint harder as someone said earlier you learn a lot more about the process and about your own favoured styles. 

Post edited at 21:58
OP Paul Sagar 22 Feb 2020
In reply to dinodinosaur:

Like Dino says, the only 7a+ I’ve done was soft (it is!). I think I will still fail on most 7a+ I try less than say 5 times, so I need to keep climbing those to improve as a climber, whilst also having something just beyond the boundary to work at too. 
 

Also, I think if you can climb 7b comfortably, chances are you underestimate the jump from 7a+. For example, I don’t now feel all that much of a difference between a 6b and 6b+. But I remember clearly that when I could only just climb 6b redpoint, most 6b+ routes were beyond me. I suspect it must be true - perhaps even more so? - in the 7s. Hence I’m not aiming to rush up the brackets, not least as I think I’ll just fail and get disheartened if I do that  


 

 Mick Ward 22 Feb 2020
In reply to AJM:

I found Wolfgang harder (though was climbing particularly badly at the time). Can't remember Sang Chaud (eek, senility!) and haven't done Troll Team. Have done an awful lot of routes in the 7a/7b bracket on Portland which felt easier than Colors. Would argue that Pop for the Top (6c) is technically harder, unless you're very tall and Northern Soul (7a+), the new line into Sacred Angel, also seemed technically harder, again unless you're very tall. The Stoning of Saint Stephen (7b+) seemed two full grades harder.

However nowadays everything seems hard to me, so my opinions may well be worthless! Would never attempt to sandbag anyone though. And, on Portland, comparing shorter routes with longer ones is particularly difficult. At least we're agreed on the quality of Colors. For me, the only route which rivals it for quality is Walking the King. Both courtesy of Pete, bless him.

Mick

 dinodinosaur 22 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Not on the south coast but the peak is a similar distance away Countdown (7b) is 7b in the local guide and a brilliant bit of climbing in a quaint setting well worth seeking out

 AJM 22 Feb 2020
In reply to Mick Ward:

> And, on Portland, comparing shorter routes with longer ones is particularly difficult. 

This is very true. I tend to find the shorter routes on Battleship Main for example harder than the equivalent grade at Wallsend - shorter and a different style and therefore they suit me less well (particularly since I don't tend to have as much time to invest in projects these days, and I find Wallsend a bit more obvious as a climbing style which is good for getting things done quickly). That was why my comparisons were aimed at routes in similar areas/styles - I'm entirely sure colors is far easier for me than whatever 7b+ might buy you at New Cuttings for example!

I onsighted Wolfgang, Troll Team, Sang Chaud, Vin Chaud and Colors all within a few months last summer, and thought Colors was by far and away the hardest of the bunch, and not because I feel I was climbing worse on it nor  because I think it's less onsightable than the others. 

It's tricky - it's clearly excellent, but it is a bit conditionsy - both the generic sea level grease and the fact that it's less accessible (on a flat sea at a fairly big tide the bottom is always fine but I don't think the same is true if there's much swell running) - which make me a little more hesitant to recommend it logistically for a Londoner.

Agree walking the king is also very good. Be good to go back and try some of the stuff on the wall just to the left really, the 7a-b stuff up the flowstone whose names escape me...

OP Paul Sagar 22 Feb 2020
In reply to Kevster:

Thanks for that, and indeed to everyone.

However I should have been clear in my original post: I do not climb at The Cuttings. 

1
 gazhbo 22 Feb 2020
In reply to Graham Westbrook:

Arienne V

 Luke_92 22 Feb 2020
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

The left hand pinch, as you come into the crux, has come off Tide Rising a while ago. Last time I was there, I saw someone try it and they said it was probably still doable but even harder now. 

OP Paul Sagar 22 Feb 2020

Went to  Winspit today but almost everything was seeping. Did manage to morally redpoint Peppercorn Rate (7a) second go. See logbook for details of this new term of art I have coined. 

5
In reply to Luke_92:

Beta warning! Warning, post contains beta!

The technology always was not to pinch it. Thumb on top, fingers down the side. Has it changed enough that that no longer works?

 Martin Bagshaw 24 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

Better yet you could call it a 'close but no Sagar'

OP Paul Sagar 25 Feb 2020
In reply to Martin Bagshaw:

Oh yes, very good. 

 Luke_92 25 Feb 2020
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

As far as I was told, that no longer works or just not as well. Apparently it was just more awkward to hold, but it seemed to add significant difficulty because of it. My partner also said that what remained, didn't feel that stable so it may have lost even more by now. 

I didn't get on it personally, so this is all just what I've been told.

 dinodinosaur 25 Feb 2020
In reply to Martin Bagshaw:

I'm crying 

 D.Russell 26 Feb 2020
In reply to Paul Sagar:

If you end up down in Devon don't waste your time on Empire, just go round the corner and get on the Lynch, its less polished and easier. Good first 7b. 

2
 Cusco 26 Feb 2020
In reply to D.Russell:

Classic sandbagging!  That's made my evening.

E6 6b in Pat Littlehohn's old South West Climbs (with the mistakenly reversed photo of the route), so 7b+. And 7b+ in Nick White's brilliant defintive South Devon guide, the new definitive South Devon guide and both Rockfax Dorset (with Torbs and Ansteys at the back) and Rockfax West Country Climbs.

Some have been known to spend years trying the Lynch. Hopefully the perma draws are now gone.

To the OP, for me, Empire was the easiest of the 7bs I did out of not very many (Thread Flintstone (the crux of which is far harder than that on Empire and I could never get the balance no hands rest), Little White Lie, Torquay or Not Torquay and More Steam Bigger Women). I've never been bouldery-strong enough to get through the first half of the Lynch.


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