First ascents database - Neville & Harold Drasdo

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Duncan Drasdo 30 Aug 2020

I hope this is the appropriate forum to ask. I have done some searches for first ascent databases but not come up with anything quite right so far but it feels like the information must be collated, perhaps on this site, which I'm clearly unfamiliar with.

I'm looking to trace the climbs of my late father (Neville Drasdo) and my uncle (Harold Drasdo). Of course I regret not having documented more from conversations but wonder if a list of first ascents might be a good way to piece together their activities so I'm hoping their is some form of database of routes which includes names of first ascents. 

Forgive my ignorance here - while supportive of any activities I pursued, my dad didn't actively encourage me to climb, perhaps because he lost too many young friends in climbing accidents, so I'm not as familiar with climbing records as perhaps I might be expected to be.

So any pointers here gratefully received for a novice. 

I've read Harold's book The Ordinary Route, and also Rope Boy several times too, but not for many years, so will re-read them, but I'm hoping a list of first ascents might be a good way to piece together a timeline. Perhaps there are better suggestions too?

This query is prompted now by my current location walking in the Isle of Skye with my wife and own two sons arriving here after a couple of days in  the Lakes staying at the Old Dungeon Ghyll Hotel. 

As I looked at the Lakeland fells, Glencoe and the Cuillin ridge (magical names from my childhood), I was left thinking about the climbs they must have done (esp Nev and his great friend Mike Dixon) and frustratingly unable to pass on information to my own boys about the exploits of their grandfather and his brother. 

Anyway, apologies for the long winded opening post but hopefully there is someone who will be kind enough to enlighten me. 

 Mick Ward 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

Hi,

Having also lost many friends to climbing, I can sympathise with your father not being keen on you  doing it. Don't worry about not knowing stuff. You'll find people pretty sympathetic to your quest. 

From memory, Harold did the first ascent (FA) of North Crag Eliminate on Castle Rock, in the Lakes, with Dennis Gray in the late 1940s. He also did the FA of Communist Convert (went from right to left, thus the name??) on Raven Crag, Thirlmere. North Crag Eliminate was a classic route, now affected by rockfall. It was in the iconic climbing book, Hard Rock (probably isn't in the latest edition because of aforesaid rockfall).

Your father did the FA of Bald Pate Direct at Ilkley in 1957 (technically very hard for its day) and seconded Joe Brown on the FA of Hardd ('beautiful' in Welsh) at Carreg Hyll-Drem ('the ugly crag' in Welsh), in North Wales, in 1960. Hardd was historically pretty important; back then, Carreg Hyll-Drem would have been regarded as utterly unclimable by most people; it's so steep it looks as though it's going to fall over, onto the road!

Harold did FAs of long, serious routes in the Poisoned Glen in Donegal (e.g. Route Major, Kon Tiki) in the 1950s. These were very significant indeed. They're listed on the Donegal climbers' database online. You can have a look. I'm sure Iain Miller, the database compiler and guidebook writer, will be only too happy to help, if you need more assistence.

A guy called John Appleby did loads of FAs with Harold in North Wales. He's on Facebook. He runs a superb climbing article resource, Footless Crow blogspot (also on Facebook). John is definitely the man re most of Harold's Welsh routes. He'll be only too happy to help.

In 1972 Harold did the FAs of five routes on the Teryn Bluffs (in the Llanberis Guide, well at least my old copy): Tongue and Groove, Pastoral, Promises, Promises, Anne Cornwall's Climb and After Eden. 

With Bob Downes, Harold did the second ascent of Spillikin Ridge, in Ireland, circa 1956. This was the hardest route in the country.

Harold's routes in the Poisoned Glen really were remarkable. Sub-Alpine in scale, difficult route finding at times, no hope of a rescue if things went wrong. When an early climbing partner of mine did 'the first Irish ascent' (second ascent?) of Route Major, circa 1970, he was chuffed to bits. It was  a decade and a half later, with significantly better gear.

Your father and your uncle were some climbers!

Mick

 TobyA 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

Mick, the walking (or should that be - climbing?) encyclopedia of British climbing has already given you loads of specific info, but just a bit of background on how and where first ascent information is collated in the UK tradition. The so called "definitive" guidebooks to the different areas of the UK form, in effect, the comprehensive lists of first ascents. So if you think your father or uncle had done a route on, say, Ben Nevis, it would be listed in the FA appendix of the Scottish Mountaineering Club's Ben Nevis guidebook. If they had a done a FA down here in the Peak District, it would be in one of the BMC's comprehensive guides to the Peak (there are quite a few of them! A lot of climbing in small-ish area). And so on. Unfortunately I don't think any of the holders of that information have made it available via a publicly searchable form short of looking through the books, which would be a massive task if you didn't know where to start! I suspect you'll get much more information via people like Mick who knew your father and uncle, or knew people who knew them etc.

UKclimbing has a searchable database of climbs now, but it is to an extent crowd-sourced so some times people don't include who did the first ascent in an entry, and I'm not sure but I don't think you can search by first ascentionist. But click on the logbook tab up above and you can explore.

Hope that's of some help!

 Martin Wood 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

Hi Duncan

I corresponded with your uncle for several months during 2010 as part of preparation for a documentary I wanted to make about the Bradford Lads.  As Mick implies , many of your father’s generation probably didn’t encourage their children to climb. In fact, one of your farther's and uncle’s companions, Peter Greenwood, summarily gave up climbing as soon as he got married in the early 1950's.  

Along with arch-chronicler Dennis Gray you might also try to contact author David Craig, who lives near Lancaster, Tony Norton (Bristol-way), Terry Parker and Colin Ramsden (Leeds). Then there is Tom Greenwood in West Yorkshire (Hebden Bridge?). Tom compiled and edited a lovely book about Arthur Dolphin, in which I think your uncle had a chapter.

The Footless Crow web-zine would be an obvious place to contact the above and/or put a call out for FA information. BTW, while you were staying at the ODG, did you see the picture of a reclining Bacchus in the climbers’ bar? I believe this was a Lads’ “reproduction”!

Best of luck

Martin  

Post edited at 14:43
In reply to Mick Ward: North Crag Eliminate is correct but Communist Convert is an Arthur Dolphin Route.

In reply to Duncan: You need to get hold of slightly older definitive club guides for the Lakes, Wales, Yorkshire and anywhere else they may have climbed. Look in the back and you'll see a first ascents list and check it for the years that they were climbing. You'll soon find what you are looking for. Also, then check earlier routes as they may have recorded variations to them.

Sadly most modern guides have gone over to a format of putting the first ascent info in with the route description, a sop to those who struggle to look things up! Unfortunately, this makes historical research all but impossible.

If you are in the Lakes, there is a full set of older FRCC guides sitting next to my desk in Needle Sports, Keswick, and anyone in the shop will let you sit and look through them if you explain what you are doing.

For the other areas, I guess it's finding someone local who's a bit of a guidebook nut and will let you look through their guidebook collection.

 Martin Bennett 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Mick Ward:

> . He also did the FA of Communist Convert (went from right to left, thus the name??) on Raven Crag, Thirlmere. North Crag Eliminate was a classic route, now affected by rockfall. It was in the iconic climbing book, Hard Rock (probably isn't in the latest edition because of aforesaid rockfall).

Not quite Mick. Communist Convert goes from L to R - clearly the political persuasion was in the other direction! I'm also as sure as I can be that the FA was by Arthur Dolphin and Don Hopkin. I looked up all Don Hopkin's first ascents after, as a virtual novice, I was lucky enough to climb with him at a then undocumented Yorkshire Limestone Crag in 1965. Harold Drasdo's contribution to Raven Thirlmere came earlier with "Genesis". Incidentally, one (at least) of Don's routes in The Eastern Crags area was with Harold on "The Barbican" on Castle Rock North Crag.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

Yes, Communist Convert in my 1979 edition of Buttermere & Eastern Crags guide is down as being first climbed by A R Dolphin, D Hopkin, M Dwyer, J Ramsden (var).

Post edited at 18:39
 Rog Wilko 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Martin Bennett: and Duncan Drasdo

I've always wondered about the reason for the naming of Communist Convert and going from left to right. If we look at religious parallels, a Catholic convert would be someone who converted to Catholicism and not from. 

One of Harold's routes I know of is Grendel on Scrubby Crag (eastern Crags guidebook). He also pioneered three further routes on the same crag, routes that have largely disappeared into obscurity under a layer of vegetation. He also did other routes in the same area, such as Irony on Iron Crag, and further routes on rather obscure crags such as Falcon Crag (Dollywagon Pike). The current Eastern Crags guide has fairly detailed first ascent details in the back, whence the above details came.

 Iain Thow 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

One of your dad's routes is the classic Nose Direct of Sgurr an Fhidhleir (HVS) in Coigach, done with Mike Dixon in May 1962. It's a gobsmacking line which had been tried and failed on by quite a few climbers since the late 19th century. A major achievement.

Good luck with your research.

 flour 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

Also from the Eastern Crags 1979 edition.

1959 August. Sforzando, Gouther Crag. H Drasdo and N Drasdo

 Mick Ward 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Martin Bennett:

(and Stephen Reid)

Sorry, my memory's going to the dogs! I seem to specialise in Lakes' mistakes these days - perhaps as a consequence of having been away for so long. Had a vague memory of Genesis and never know about The Barbican. Good to have these things put right. Thanks.

Mick

P.S. Is there a bit in Harold's book about him having a go at the FA of Mordor on Dove? A climbing partner of mine went on it with Gordon Tinning and they described it as a bit of a horrorshow.

 Martin Bennett 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

My suggestions stem from the fact that I began in 1965 as a Lakeland climber so my awareness of Harold Drasdo is from the fact that the 1959 Fell and Rock Climbing Club (FRCC) guide book to The Eastern Crags that we began with was written by Harold, and he was co author (with Jack Soper) of the next edition in 1969 and as such was an important character in my initial learning period, being as he was, not only a chronicler but also a leader of many important first ascents and crag discoveries and developments, particularly in the Eastern Fells Among many were Scrubby Crag and Gouther Crag with routes such as "Grendel" "Firedragon" "Sforzando" and "Sostenuto"  as he worked on the guide books.

Later I became an outdoor pursuits teacher and his book on the topic was required reading in the seventies. Each time I visit one of the more recently discovered and therefore by definition almost, smaller and less significant, crags I remember the words of his I read many many years ago (sorry, can't remember in what publication) which, in essence were: "in times to come men will walk long distances to climb on such outcrops". And so it has proved.

I think you'd be well served to seek out a copy of the FRCC Eastern Crags guide book - any edition will do from 1959 to the most recent in 2010, and looking through the first ascent lists therein. I'm sorry I know little of the brothers contributions elsewhere than in The Lakes. It occurs to me searches for information about the exploits of Jack Soper may reveal snippets, as would any memoirs of A H (A Harry) Griffin who was a sometime partner and quite prolific journalist and author from Kendal. Leeds and/or Sheffield University Mountaineering Club archives might be helpful, if available?

Good hunting.

Martin

PS Let me know if you have trouble locating the FRCC guide book and I can lend you one or perhaps photocopy the appropriate pages.

PPS - Found one (1969) for a fiver or so here: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=17929793831&cm_sp=S...

Post edited at 19:35
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

I have your uncle's book 'The Ordinary Route' (signed by him at Bretton Hall in 1997). I need to look at it again, because I'm not sure I ever read it properly from cover to cover, and his writing was always unusually interesting. I got to know him moderately well over quite a few years of mt lit festivals, and I think I may have been on a committee with him years ago in the BMC. I remember him as an exceptionally modest man, very quiet, probably quite shy. I'm really glad your post has made me fish out that book again, so it's now in my bedroom to re/read.

 Martin Hore 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

Hi Duncan

I don't have any information about your father, but your uncle Harold Drasdo did feature in my early career. I was interviewed by him for an instructor post at The Towers outdoor education centre in the 70's. He didn't appoint me, which was probably the best outcome for both of us. 

Harold's book - more a pamphlet really - entitled "Education and the Mountain Centres" was required reading on the Advanced Certificate in Outdoor Education course I attended at Charlotte Mason College in 1976. The course was led by Colin Mortlock who is still around (I think) and may have useful information for you. I'm pretty sure I have a copy of Harold's booklet, though I can't locate it right now.

I've just checked Harold's Wikipedia entry - I'm sure you've done that too. It mentions several of his (and Neville's) first ascents. I'm pretty sure it has the name of Harold's book wrong though.

Let me know if I can be of more help.

Martin

 Iain Thow 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

A quick skim through the SMC guides also brings up these of your dad's routes:

Man Trap HS on Sgurr a' Mhadaidh in the Cuillin, Sept 58 with Mike Dixon

Zigzag VD on Creag Urbhard, Foinaven, 1962 with Mike Dixon

The "Inviting Crack" of Minor Rib on An Teallach, Severe, May 62 with Mike Dixon and Tom Patey

All these are on big (200-300m) cliffs with a reputation for looseness. Not high grades but serious stuff. There's a nice pic of a winter ascent of the last one in Northern Highlands Central.

I love The Ordinary Route, by the way, one of my all time fave outdoor books.

Cheers,

Duncan Drasdo 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo

Thanks so much to all who've replied thus far. Inspiration for me to follow up on when I get home to Manchester in a day or two. I attended the Bradford Lad's reunion dinner the last couple of times my dad and Harold attended a few years back and have some names to follow up on mentioned above. Tony Norton and Terry Parker in particular who've stayed in touch.

I'm surprised there isn't an enthusiastic web database programmer (I used to dabble) who hasn't taken on the challenge to create a comprehensive database but perhaps I'm unusual in wishing to search for such information in this way.

Any further information or indeed anecdotes relating to Neville or Harold would be gratefully received but I appreciate it may not be of interest to the wider users of this site so if it is felt to be too indulgent for the forum I'd happily communicate on email.

Anyway - many thanks for all who've replied and I will respond later to individual posts where appropriate.

In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

My memory of him, I'm sorry to say, was that he was extremely difficult to get to know. He didn't seem to want to talk much to anyone. As I got to know him a bit, he seemed like quite a nice guy, so I've no idea what his problem was.

 McHeath 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

Mick Ward has already mentioned the blog Footless Crow - here's an article from it by the inimitable Dennis Gray, it's a lovely read:

http://footlesscrow.blogspot.com/2018/06/the-drasdo-brothersnorthern-expres...

Harold's obituary, from the same site:

http://footlesscrow.blogspot.com/2015/09/fell-tigerharold-drasdo-obituary.h...

Post edited at 21:13
gezebo 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

I know this maybe a bit random but the chap who put the original routes on the crag linked below ( I think he was called Robin) lives in one of the cottages at the bottom of the track on the approach to this cliff. If he’s still alive I’d imagine he would of climbed within the same circles as your father and uncle and was a very engaging chap who’d have lots of stories. 

Clogwyn Cyrau

 Nigel Coe 30 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

I remember Harold was at the launch party for the Climbers’ Club’s Meirionnydd guidebook and I knew he was involved in new routes on Moel Siabod, so I trawled through the first ascents list for that guide:

1964 12 25 Traditional Route H Drasdo, N Drasdo, G D Roberts, M Feeley
After three pitches the team left to attend a Christmas lunch. They returned later in the day to add the finishing pitch and a variation.

1967 5 9 Transect A J J Moulam, H Drasdo

1967 5 9 The Hump A J J Moulam, H Drasdo

1967 5 20 Tendency N J Soper, J H Swallow, H Drasdo (AL)

1967 5 23 Embargo H Drasdo, R J Holroyd (AL)

1967 6 3 The Nave C T Jones, A J J Moulam, H Drasdo (VL)

1967 7 2 Gay A J J Moulam, N Drasdo, H Drasdo

1967 7 8 Green Wall (Carreg Alltrem) A J J Moulam, H Drasdo

1968 Moss Rib A J J Moulam, H Drasdo

1960s First Encounter H Banner, H Drasdo, W Wynn

1960s Illusion, Problem Wall H Drasdo & party

1960s Quercus’s Route A J J Moulam, H Drasdo

1960s Ulex H Drasdo, A J J Moulam

1994 6 H Drasdo, N Drasdo

1994 7 Left Flank, Right Flank H Drasdo, D Boston (AL)

1996 5 14 Zalamander J Appleby, H Drasdo

1996 6 19 Ziggurat J H Drasdo, Appleby

1996 6 24 Heart of Darkness J Appleby, H Drasdo

1996 7 20 Jenga J Appleby, H Drasdo

19973 11 Hat Full of Hollow, Tuff Going J Appleby, H Drasdo

1997 4 9 Hurricane Wall J Appleby, H Drasdo

1998 2 Iron John, Close Second, Fire, Brimstone J Appleby, H Drasdo

1998 3 18 Ironside J Appleby, H Drasdo

1998 3 25 Aja J Appleby, H Drasdo

1998 5 19 Ordinary Route H Drasdo, J Appleby

1998 8 18 Zenturian J Appleby, H Drasdo

1999 7 7 Wysiwyg H Drasdo, J Appleby

2000 3 30 Kreen-Akrore J Appleby, H Drasdo

2000 9 14 Two Against Nature H Drasdo, N Drasdo
The party set out to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of its first new route. One point of aid was used while cleaning a greasy crux. The Foot and Mouth restrictions of 2001 prevented a return to free the pitch.

Post edited at 22:39
In reply to Nigel Coe:

Didn’t Harold D write an article in one of the mags at quite an advanced age describing his climbing, and in particular a new route at a crag I had never heard of, and which I am not sure even has a guidebook, called, if memory serves, Plato’s Cave? It was a good article (‘once engaged I have no choice but to check my limits’), but how one might track it down I’m not sure.

jcm

 Nigel Coe 31 Aug 2020
In reply to Nigel Coe:

The name of the June 94 route that I missed out was Line.

 steveriley 31 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

The developers at ukclimbing may be able to extract a list of routes to create a first ascent list, where that information is recorded alongside the route in the database. They did the same recently after the death of John Allen. 

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

In his book 'The Ordinary Route', pp. 190-7, he talks about a crag called Simdde Ddu, which means Black Chimney. The only routes he mentions are 'Unknown Soldier', and the 'Simdde Ddu, the Black Chimney itself.' Perhaps he called that Plato's Cave, but he doesn't mention the name in the book.

 Martin Bennett 31 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

I omitted another snippet in my previous reply Duncan, though maybe it's already been mentioned by one of your respondents above? I don't have a copy to hand to check but I think Harold wrote an edition of The Climber's Club guide book to Lliwedd, perhaps in the 1970s. If so then he'll have done new routes during the research for the book, of that I feel sure, and these will be listed at the back of the book in the time honoured way.

 Iain Thow 31 Aug 2020
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I think the article you mean was called "The view from Plato's Cave" and was later included as a chapter in The Ordinary Route. Loosely about his new routing in Cwm Dyli on Snowdon.

 JonesE 31 Aug 2020
In reply to Martin Bennett:

Indeed. Several routes added between May 1966 and June 1970 including Cruel Crack and The Bender. Harold published the guide in 1972.

 Mick Ward 31 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

I wrote a review of The Ordinary Route when it was published. A mate has scanned it from a photocopy of an old mag. Some of the prose got mangled along the way. I've been through it a few times and tried to clean things up but expect there are still a few typos/odd things, here and there.

No Ordinary Man

I drove out of Sheffield, absently noting the supplicatory pawmarks on West Side Story and a lone sentinel perched atop Buttonhook. The serried buttresses of Stanage were drenched with shadow. So many shared images linking us to the core of things. My thoughts wandered across the Donegal and Connemara highlands of forty years ago, a time that, but for a few, is time out of mind. And thus to the man whom I was driving to meet, an enigmatic figure who has always intrigued me, a man, heaven help us, almost old enough to be my father.

Harold Drasdo was born in 1930. He has climbed for over 50 years. A former Bradford Lad and habitué of Wall End Barn, he is of the Brown-Whillans generation. His route, North Crag Eliminate, is one of the great Lake District Extremes. Bob Downes and he made the second ascent of Spillikin Ridge, then the hardest and most famous route in Ireland. In the Lakes he wrote the 1959 Eastern Crags guide and in Wales the guide to Lliwedd. His monograph Education and The Mountain Centres was an early and important critique of the Outdoor Education movement. With Michael Tobias, he co-edited The Mountain Spirit, an eclectic array of essays on aesthetic, cultural and spiritual responses to mountains. Now he has produced The Ordinary Route, part-autobiography, part-polemic. What are we to make of him, of it?

The first thing that must be said is that The Ordinary Route is very good indeed. Drasdo is a wordsmith who takes his craft seriously. Not for him the verbal pyrotechnic, the slipshod metaphor, the populist sentiment. Keep at it for fifty years and you may learn to write like this. Yet Drasdo has previously been panned by the critics and resolutely condemned to literary extinction. Remain part of the awkward brigade and you too will merit the throwaway verdict of history!

Time and time again The Ordinary Route reveals Drasdo as a consummate master of the felicitous phrase. Guidebooks are sacred texts, linking armchair and crag. Maps induce a dreamlike pleasure, are poems without beginning or end. The remote fastness of Ogden Clough, archetypal grit outcrop, is a neat little arrangement of rocks rimming its tight ravine. The cascades of Sour Milk Gill thunder powerfully and creamily down the slabs opposite Seathwaite Farm. The sing-songs of his post-war travelling companions are the poetry of the poor. Girls, a little older than himself and tantalisingly inaccessible, defeat the austerity of rationing to make style out of rags. At Gorphwysfa, the resting place, he has his conversion. Beneath him, the Llanberis Pass is shafted with evening light and drenched with astonishing colours; golds, greens, purples, black. Three men stride abreast, sturdy booted figures in worn clothes, two carrying coiled ropes over their shoulders. He senses the justice of their claim to this place. All around him the hills recline in sensuous invitation. He is seventeen and he has wasted his life. For the next half-century, climbing will be a consuming passion.

Characteristically Drasdo is diffident, indeed almost dismissive about what must have been a precocious climbing ability. The then highly serious North Crag Eliminate, climbed with an underfed, streetwise fourteen year old called Dennis Gray, is seemingly flawed by the necessary abseil removal of a loose block. A slip from the sloping finishing hold of Short Circuit at Ilkley costs him the first ascent of probably the most technical route in the country.

A casual exploration on Dove Crag anticipates the sustained seriousness of Mordor. At Kilnsey, with the swell of field surging against the cliff, he makes a futuristic assault. Gallows Route is very nearly aptly named. Yet only with his gargantuan routes in the Poisoned Glen is there a sense of enduring satisfaction. The rite of passage of the ferry crossing returns him to a land impregnated with Yeatsian lyricism and the beautifully cadenced speech of the far west, an empty, depopulated land where the hills are robed with mystery. Drasdo and his companions fall deeply, blindly, helplessly under the spell of Donegal. Forever afterwards, the valley of his dreams will bear a confused resemblance to the Poisoned Glen, redolent with a haunting sense of unrealised possibilities.

The concomitant to mountaineering is companionship upon the hills. Such companionship may be actual or vicarious. The famous, the unknown and the half-forgotten flit wraithlike through Drasdo's pages. Abraham, Westmorland, Kelly, Dolphin, Greenwood, Marshall, Austin, Brown, Harris, Anthoine, make a curve like an arrowflight, spanning a century and more. To Irish climbers, the names of Andre Kopczinski, Ruth Ohrtmann, Peter Kenny, Frank Winder and Betty Healy are no whit less hallowed. Drasdo's Lliwedd travails compel him to follow in the nailmarks of Archer Thompson and Menlove Edwards, both of whom terminated sad and desperate lives through self-poisoning. He knows well that man’s days are as grass, that for many climbing is a fire which will burn out, that the futility of retracing the past inexorably impales one upon a spear of grief.

And yet ultimately all of this is as nothing when set against mountaineering's epiphanies. Middlefell Buttress is frescoed with rondels of bright green lichen. Empty, mysterious foothills bar the way towards Arcadia. The sacred monastery of Saint Catherine's, with one of the most eminent collections of ancient manuscripts on earth, stares out across a great and terrible wilderness, the land-bridge between Africa and Asia. Montserrat yields a perfect echo, an ineffable melody, Donegal a double moonbow, its immaculate white arches high and complete. By Gibraltar, a tangle of jet black snakes basks in the sun.

At Corrour Bothy, after struggling through seemingly endless snowdrifts in the Lairig Ghru, exhausted mountaineers sink into deep dry beds of soft heather. In the Rifugio Lavaredo, there is supper by candlelight with sheet lightning flashing outside. An unruffled sea stretches across to Wicklow Head, while behind, the tiny but shapely hills of Lleyn lead up to the Rivals and above and beyond them to the mysterious heights of Eryri. The remote and uninhabited head of Glen Barra calls to us across space and time. There is a day on the Ordinary Route on the Idwal Slabs when, magnificently, huge soft snowflakes fall in absolute silence and one is unexpectedly swept with happiness.

In her evocative Western Interlude, written about Glen lnagh, in Connemara, published in the Irish Mountaineering Club journal in the 1950s and quoted by Drasdo, Brighid Hardiman glimpsed a psychic frontier:

‘The mountains were quiet and unchanged, affected neither by our coming nor our going and I wished that there was some part of them that would miss us as we would miss them. But they were the ones who laid claim and remained untouched.’

With The Ordinary Route, Drasdo reveals the quotidian as strange and numinous. He spirits us across Brighid Hardiman's psychic frontier. One of the Wild Geese has finally come home.

Mick

 jonny taylor 31 Aug 2020
In reply to Mick Ward:

I have very fond memories of climbing North Crag Eliminate. It's a great shame that, along with that whole rock face, the infamous yew tree is no more I presume.

 Sean Kelly 31 Aug 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

A wonderful resource is Kendal Library. The whole of the 2nd floor is devoted to mountaineering. You could easily lose yourself in there for a week!

 overdrawnboy 31 Aug 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I can give you contact details for Terry Parker should you need them, I'm sure he would be delighted to hear from you.

Duncan Drasdo 01 Sep 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

Thanks to all those who have replied - especially where it has involved detailed information and/or research. I won't reply to every post and clog up the board or people's notifications but it is very much appreciated and lots to go on. Quite a few leads were known to me but I'd forgotten about so very helpful reminders too.

Duncan Drasdo 01 Sep 2020
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Ha - that sounds like my Uncle Harold to be fair. He came across as quite a loner - very deep thinker - so yes quite difficult to engage unless you knew him - so nothing personal I'm sure! 

> My memory of him, I'm sorry to say, was that he was extremely difficult to get to know. He didn't seem to want to talk much to anyone. As I got to know him a bit, he seemed like quite a nice guy, so I've no idea what his problem was.

Duncan Drasdo 01 Sep 2020
In reply to Mick Ward:

Lovely - thanks for that Mick

Duncan Drasdo 01 Sep 2020
In reply to Nigel Coe:

Fantastic - thanks Nigel

 Sean Kelly 01 Sep 2020
In reply to Martin Bennett:

A quick check of the recent Lliwedd guide (1998), lists 11 of his climbs

Post edited at 19:17
Duncan Drasdo 02 Sep 2020

Thanks for these links which are really great. I'm pretty sure I took the picture of Neville and Harold outside the ODG Hotel at a Bradford Lads reunion. It prompted me to search for a few others which I've linked below for completeness:

Guardian: Bradford Lads: the boys are back at the Old Dungeon Ghyll
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/nov/12/lakedistrict-moun...

Guardian: Neville Drasdo obituary
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/nov/28/neville-drasdo-obituary

The Crow Diaries: Neville Drasdo Passes Away.
http://tohatchacrow.blogspot.com/2019/08/neville-drasdo-passes-away.html

In reply to McHeath:

> Mick Ward has already mentioned the blog Footless Crow - here's an article from it by the inimitable Dennis Gray, it's a lovely read:

> Harold's obituary, from the same site:

Duncan Drasdo 02 Sep 2020

Thanks - I do have a number for Terry 

In reply to overdrawnboy:

> I can give you contact details for Terry Parker should you need them, I'm sure he would be delighted to hear from you.

Duncan Drasdo 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Martin Wood:

Thanks Martin. Re the painting in the Hiker's Bar - yes I was aware of the connection although can't remember the exact details of how it came about. However I believe the central character in the painting is "Black" Jack Thornton

> Hi Duncan

> I corresponded with your uncle for several months during 2010 as part of preparation for a documentary I wanted to make about the Bradford Lads.  As Mick implies , many of your father’s generation probably didn’t encourage their children to climb. In fact, one of your farther's and uncle’s companions, Peter Greenwood, summarily gave up climbing as soon as he got married in the early 1950's.  

> Along with arch-chronicler Dennis Gray you might also try to contact author David Craig, who lives near Lancaster, Tony Norton (Bristol-way), Terry Parker and Colin Ramsden (Leeds). Then there is Tom Greenwood in West Yorkshire (Hebden Bridge?). Tom compiled and edited a lovely book about Arthur Dolphin, in which I think your uncle had a chapter.

> The Footless Crow web-zine would be an obvious place to contact the above and/or put a call out for FA information. BTW, while you were staying at the ODG, did you see the picture of a reclining Bacchus in the climbers’ bar? I believe this was a Lads’ “reproduction”!

> Best of luck

> Martin  

Post edited at 14:04
Duncan Drasdo 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Martin Bennett:

Thanks Martin - I will have a look through my both my Dad's bookshelves with renewed interest and sift out the climbing guides. (Similarly with Harold when I visit my aunt Maureen). 

Neville also had a lot of photos and slides which we're not able to identify. I hope to post them up online at some point to see if anyone can help identify them. Another regret - it would have been something my Dad would have enjoyed going through with us and annotating them had I thought of doing this before he died.

In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

Interesting reading in Dennis Gray's piece that he and Neville tried Gallows Route; if I remember right Harold describes in The Ordinary Route a different, equally heart-stopping, attempt by Neville and him. I suppose they never did get up it.

jcm

 Tim Sparrow 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

I gleaned this extract from Del Davies, who took over from Harold as centre manager of the Towers and knew him and Maureen well.

“Harold occasionally spoke of his climbing adventures but rarely in a technical way. One good story about their time in Donegal was about them examining a tarpaulin on the roadside perhaps with a view to a bivvy. They thought that it was covering a heap of turnips and were astonished to discover that the ‘turnips’ were the heads of a traveller family sleeping beneath!

I was aware that Harold and Nev too I expect were driven by the desire to do first ascents. In his 50’s and 60’s Harold was delighted to find unclimbed rock on Arenig Fawr and later he would take a look at various obscure outcrops locally with an eye to a new route. I once mentioned that I had scrambled on a little crag above Carrog in the Machno valley, about as obscure as you can get and his eyes lit up when I mentioned climbing a quartzy pinnacle there. He had done a thorough exploration.

He did not climb a great deal with Centre groups in my time though he had several ‘apprentices’ from Wolverhampton youth clubs who had seconded him as he repeated most of the routes on Lliwedd when he was revising the guide.

Harold had a pronounced hand tremor and he had funny story about a Wolverhampton kid who, noticing this as Harold sorted out some climbing gear said “Sir! Youm shaky!”

Dave Alcock (who was at the Towers for a couple of years) and I used to chuckle at his abseil lesson on the little outcrop above the centre. He would gather his group on a crowded ledge, get into the ‘abseil position’ then give a lengthy description of what might go wrong before hauling himself back on to the ledge and would look mildly surprised when there was reluctance on the part of his pupils to have a go.

One crag not mentioned in the correspondence where Harold and friends were active, possibly Nev too was Cae Coch quarry near Trefriw. He did several routes with Joe Arthy, John Kerry and others there and had some horror stories of a route that passed the corpse of a dead dog that hung on a tree branch. The whole face came down in a massive rockfall though there are some fierce bolted modern routes there now.”

1
 Mick Ward 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Tim Sparrow:

From (an increasingly dodgy) memory, Harold wrote an essay, A Climb in Cae Coch Quarry, for the Climbers' Club journal, reprinted in 'Games Climbers Play'. Cae Coch Quarry sounds the sort of loathsome place where a machete might come in handy.

A while back, on Facebook, there was a description of some of Harold's more esoteric routes - one where Pat Littlejohn cheerfully admitted to bailing (seriousness getting a bit silly?) Pass the smelling salts, Norah! 

Mick

 Mick Ward 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

A while ago, John Appleby came across some old film footage of an astonishingly youthful Harold and his mates hitching from Bradford (to the Lakes?) John was going to do something with this. I think John also mentioned getting some of Harold's writings from Maureen. He'll be only too delighted to help.

The Ordinary Route may have confused people somewhat, in that it was partly a volume of reminiscence and partly a series of polemics - which Harold rather liked. Harold was arguably the most intellectually capable person I've ever come across; clearly he was endearingly unaware of his pronounced abilities.

Harold may have written other Climbers Club journal articles. He contributed to High magazine on a fairly regular basis. I can put you in touch with Geoff Birtles, the erstwhile editor, who would know more. I asked Harold if he had ideas about a further book. It seemed there were various essays that he was working on.

Hope this helps!

Mick

Duncan Drasdo 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Tim Sparrow:

We used to love going to The Towers as kids - playing on the assault course provided hours of entertainment - although there was no TV in the flat so "we had to make our own entertainment - kids nowadays ...." 

Yes the traveller story with the turnips/heads was one my Dad loved to tell although it was rarely intelligible as he struggled to get the words about between breathless guffaws. He always enjoyed it far more than the listener.

 Darron 02 Sep 2020
In reply to Duncan Drasdo:

There is a report about John Appleby and Harold Drasdo climbing “the last significant unclimbed gully in Wales” in Sept 1996  ‘Climber’. The Black Chimney VS . Arenig Fawr.

I could photo and put on here if it would help with your research?

Duncan Drasdo 04 Sep 2020

Yes please

In reply to Darron:

> There is a report about John Appleby and Harold Drasdo climbing “the last significant unclimbed gully in Wales” in Sept 1996  ‘Climber’. The Black Chimney VS . Arenig Fawr.

> I could photo and put on here if it would help with your research?


New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...