UKH

Hi all,

Got a slightly obscure question that I can't seem to find the answer to and I suspect not many people have thought about:

How would you go hands free if you had to escape the belay when using a twin or double rope setup?

Is it basically just using the standard belay escape method just with both ropes together (i.e. as if they are together a single rope)?

Thanks in advance!

Hello climbkrisclimb,

You haven't indicated the current position of the belayer person and the configuration of the belay anchor system.

For example:  Is the belay person located above the climber and belaying directly from anchors (so the load transmits directly to the anchors and does not pass through the belay person?

OR

Is the belay person located below the climber - either on the ground at the start of a route or at an intermediate belay ledge?

Both cases are substantially different.
The fact that climbing can be 'trad' and/or 'bolted sport routes' also adds further complexities (eg if no bolts and only removable climbing protection devices are used - one would have to assume that finding solid wire/hex/cam placements is even possible - eg on a new trad route on-sight or is it an established/existing route?).

Also, the type of anchor system that is available matters for the belay person to fully 'escape' the system. If the belay person is situated below the climber and is standing on the ground... and there are no available anchors within a reasonable radius - this complicates matters.

Sorry to throw these concepts at you but, without a proper context, providing clearcut answers will simply be educated guesswork.

In a general sense, if a climber has taken a fall on a double rope system, usually (but not always) one of the ropes will be under greater load than the other. And this depends on the relative positions of the double ropes - as to which one has sustained higher loading in arresting a fall.
There is no reason in principle why you cant 'tie-off' the rope that is under maximal load - assuming of course that the protection that held the fall remains viable.
Usually, the belay person can still take-in some slack on the rope that is not under maximal load.
Tying-off both ropes affords higher security - assuming the last pieces of protection are solid and reliable.
I would also comment that the state of the fallen climber is a factor - eg conscious or knocked unconscious. Having double ropes provides greater options if a rescue needs to be performed...

Assuming you're talking about rescuing a second, exactly as you would do with a single rope, with a prussik around both strands. 

The whole rescue operation can be conducted with both ropes treated as one.

Alternatively, with one half rope fixed to a sling master point anchor once you've escaped the system, you can then take the second rope out of the system to use for a later abseil etc and conduct your rescue on a single half rope. Be very careful if you are doing this as two people on a single half rope bouncing around conducing an abseil rescue is a bit scary if there are any sharp edges around. 

Thanks for the clarification! I was worried there might somehow not be enough friction in the hitch/knot if both ropes were together treated as a single.
 

In reply to agent_smith:

Thanks also for the reply - I was aware that it might actually be more situationally contextual but was somewhat optimistically hoping there might be a "one method to rule them all". 

My initial query was more from a simple single pitch lead route with myself/a partner belaying from the ground. However your answer surprises/scares me because I would think the initial stage of going hands-free would be relatively universal. To clarify my preferred method, it's a mule hitch then overhand (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JtcxIQGKBs&ab_channel=NorthwestMountai... ).

Thanks again, really appreciate the help (as I'm sure my partners will if I need to use it!)

I wouldn't, I'd have constructed my belay to ensure I wasn't part of it. There is no worldy reason for anyone to be part of their belay these days unless they're so short of rope they have to be.

I disagree. Rope anchors are great for many reasons, have a read up on them if your not convinced.

Exactly the same or any safe variation thereof.

Hello again climbkrisclimb,

Just replying to your comment:

My initial query was more from a simple single pitch lead route with myself/a partner belaying from the ground

Couple of points to ponder:

1. Many climbers belay directly from their harness when standing on the ground and positioned below (ie underneath) the lead climber.

2. Once the lead climber passes the half-way point, that lead climber can no longer be lowered back to the ground (eg if knocked unconscious by a bad fall).

3. If (while belaying from the ground) there are no available anchors within a reasonable radius of the belay person, this complicates matters. For example, if the lead climber had passed the half-way point and then took a nasty fall and got knocked unconscious, lowering the 'patient' to the ground is no longer possible. Also, to 'escape' the belay and perform a rescue, the belay person needs to transfer all load to an anchor system. If there are no anchors to transfer to, that isn't a good situation!

...

Commentary:

Tying-off a belay and going 'hands-free' is just the first step in the rescue process.

The ability to tie-off your belay device and go 'hands-free' is an important skill.

But, once you are 'hands-free' - then what?

To fully 'escape' - you need to transfer the load (to an anchor).

This process is generally easier if the belay person is situated above the climber.

However, as I pointed out, when belaying from the ground (ie the start of a route) - most climbers belay directly from their harness. In an indoor climbing gym, it is standard procedure for the belay person to be attached to an adjustable sling which is fixed to the floor (ie the belay person is anchored to the floor). However, this type of configuration is not standard when climbing outdoors.

So next time you are standing on the ground and belaying directly from your harness, and the lead climber passes the half-way point, consider your options if there are no available anchors within a reasonable radius (these anchors would need to withstand an upward force).

Edit note:

Always tie a stopper knot in the end of the rope (in the belay persons end of the rope). I've personally witnessed a situation when a belay person was attempting to lower an unconscious lead climber back to the ground and basically ran out of rope! The lead climber had passed the half-way point. I noticed there was no stopper knot in the end of the rope and yelled out a caution...the belay person thankfully stopped lowering just in time - otherwise the climbing rope would have pulled through and ejected from the belay device (with catastrophic consequences).
 

I have also witnessed a similar situation - only this time the belay person thought he was very clever - when he ran out of rope to continue lowering the injured lead climber to the ground, he lifted/launched himself upwards (sort of like a counter-weight). The injured lead climber went downwards and the belayer went upwards... and then the injured lead climber hit a ledge that was obstructing... the belay person was in a bad situation (and so was the injured lead climber)...

There is another reason you might want to be part of the belay and that is to ‘protect’ your anchor, a situation more likely encountered in winter climbing. It requires highly developed judgement to make that call, as I’m sure you’ll be aware, but can be extremely effective. 

If you happened to belaying directly from your anchor using an auto locking set up with, for example a DMM Pivot, then you’re already ‘free’ to leave the anchor. If doing so I would back this up, for instance a small isolation loop in the dead ropes, just below the Pivot, terminated with clove hitches into an additional karabiner at the belay master point. 
 

Clearly the anchor needs to be undoubtedly strong for doing this kind of stuff  

Edit: in addition, and as has probably already been mentioned, how you escape any belay system depends on what you intend to do thereafter, ie what the problem is. When I teach rescue courses I make sure there is a ‘real world’ basis to the training. 

Yes, and you can make them to a central point which isn't your belay loop.

I protect my anchor by clipping myself into the central strongpoint and moving myself back to take the tension before the rest of the belay does.