UKH

Following on from the "Crappy little crags" thread the other thing I've noticed in posted photos in the last 2-3 months is the number of people still getting out there climbing.

Now since we're in lockdown, to me this either means:

1. There are lots of climbers who are fortunate to have great places local to their abode, or...

2. There are lots of climbers who are taking the piss with respect to lockdown (I know that this form of exercise contributes "zero" to Covid spread, the issue here is "local").

Of course it may well be both, but for example, I've been surprised at the number of people who can access Welsh mountains from their doorstep (I believe travel for exercise is not allowed in the principality unless you're disabled).

I'm really trying not to be judgemental (i.e. not automatically assuming it's "2") but I'm finding it quite a struggle when I consider the number of "current" photos showing locations that are "local". Especially when a weeny bit of investigation shows things like Helvellyn on 8th Feb but Bamford on the 4th - local to both of those - definitely a number 2, whereas somebody else appears to be giving Baildon Bank a good going over - probably a number 1.

Edit: I realise that the situation in Scotland with regard to travel is rather different since your defined "area" (+ 5 miles) can be quite extensive - which probably means that lots of the winter climbing photos are totally "ok".

In reply to Michael Hood:

A suggestion solely to aid mental wellbeing and alleviate stress:

1. Decide what your personal moral stance is and live accordingly.
2. Assume the best of others.
3. Don't stress about others because you can't do anything about it and you're unlikely to change their behaviour.
4. Live comfortably in the knowledge that you are living by your personal morals.

Down that path lies a much happier place.

In reply to Michael Hood: Your option 1 isn't correct - a place local to you doesn't need to be great, but it can be better than nothing and local.  

In reply to tehmarks:

Well said! Have yet another like! 

In reply to tehmarks:

Perhaps this should be pinned at the top of every thread at the moment.

In reply to Michael Hood:

The guidance in Scotland is still to stay "local", the difference being that there is a maximum legal limit of "council area + 5 miles". So it is probably more restrictive than in England if you go by the guidance since some people's "local" is highly constrained by their small council area. Of course interpretations of "local" vary greatly so it is certainly arguable whether many of those climbing photos are "totally ok".

In reply to tehmarks:

It would help if people ignoring the rules were more discrete and didn't take the piss by posting on social media. Your advice is excellent but hard to follow if you have lost loved ones... this will break quite a few friendships. 

In reply to tehmarks:

Can't agree about #3, especially where it involves people like fly tippers.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

You're going to have to help me here: at what point did the OP mention fly-tipping?

In reply to tehmarks:

We can do something about it, though. If we decide as a community it is morally unacceptable currently to be climbing in Yorkshire one day and the Lakes the next, and we make this clear, people should reflect and possibly change their ways. 

We are an interconnected society, our actions impact others all the time (goes both ways). The pandemic shows this very, very clearly. 

In reply to tehmarks:

5. Think about how much longer the piss takers are keeping us in lockdown.

In reply to MikeSP:

Is that aiding your mental wellbeing?

In reply to tehmarks:

No, but getting out of lock down would.

Knowing that I'm making everyone's lockdown longer definitely wouldn't.

In reply to MikeSP:

Pretty much everything that I've seen from public health specialists suggests that people failing to comply with restrictions on exercise is having virtually no impact on spreading the disease, compared to problems with government policy on keeping people at work, in school, the lack of support for people self isolating etc. Eg:
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/07/pandemic-fatigue-how-adherence-to-covi...

So if by "piss takers" you mean the government then yes, I agree.

In reply to MikeSP:

You hardly need to tell me that. I haven't worked since March 2020, and I'm bored of having to think about whether I can afford my food shopping. I'd really quite like to be able to go back to work. I'm not going to go off on one at the majority of my fellow citizens though, who are all living through the exact same unprecedented and difficult times. I'm going to reserve my fury for the *&^%s who have delivered us into this disaster in the first place.

None of that was the point though. My point is that it's not healthy to stress about things that you can't change — and you only have to look at the weekly chaos of threads on here to understand that getting angsty at people climbing is not going to change the fact that people are going climbing. It's been discussed at nauseum, no consensus has ever been reached and it's generated a huge amount of angst for large numbers of people in the process. If one doesn't want to have a near nervous breakdown like it seems many are close to, my advice is pretty sage. I'm not advising anyone on the morals of climbing, I'm just saying that stressing about it is not going to change anything other than one's own mental health.

I still have no idea where fly-tipping comes into it either.

In reply to tehmarks:

I assume Tom V took your first post to cover those that break other laws/rules, not just the ones related to Covid. 

In reply to flatlandrich:

Yes, I didn't realise that the 4 stress relieving suggestions at 19.44 were solely limited to the stress brought about by not climbing, where this exists. My mistake.

In reply to Offwidth:

Are people who are sticking to the rules and posting on social media ok?

In reply to tehmarks:

I notice you've hidden your "latest climbs"...

In reply to tehmarks:

Great if it works for you. I'm not sure it works for me. I feel less comfortable following lockdown restrictions if I know others are flouting them and doing things I enjoy.  I agree with Offwidth. It would make my lockdown life rather easier, and theirs no harder, if those who are flouting the restrictions didn't post about it on social media. 

Martin

In reply to tehmarks:

Thanks, I'm only minimally stressing about it 😁

Pretty much doing that

Trying to but failing sometimes

I realised when I did the OP that to some extent, I was trying to poke a wasps nest with a stick 😁, and climbers being out there with a loose definition of "local" doesn't actually bother me that much because it is pretty low risk wrt Covid transmission - but some people are just taking the piss and totally ignoring the rules, which like them or not, are there to try and get us through this pandemic.

I would be a lot less happy if this lookdown was in spring (nice rock weather) rather than winter (too cold and wet most of the time).

In reply to Robert Durran:

My thinking was more along the lines of someone living in areas like Argyll & Bute or Highlands - they'd have a pretty large choice of winter objectives without going beyond their allowed travel.

In reply to Michael Hood:

If they go by the law, yes. If they go by the guidance, then, depending on their interpretation of "local", possibly none or little.

In reply to sandrow:

I hid it ages ago for a few reasons, and it seems to cause occasional angst in a surprising number of ways - people who think I'm trying to hide my climbing inabilities, people who think I'm trying to hide my rulebreaking, etc.

Let me clear all of this up at once: I hid it after I had to cancel a trip with one friend because of work, only for work to be cancelled and me ending up climbing with another friend. Which obviously looks a bit odd. I also have taken a slightly unhealthy obsession in the past with what I have climbed rather than what I'm going to climb, and my logbook comments are also often personal and I don't really want them publicly viewable.

For the record, the last thing I 'climbed' was Hall's Fell Ridge on 30th December 2020, and the last thing I did before that was a trip to Stanage with my novice girlfriend in September. I lead VS with moderate proficiency and the occasional wobble, and I more often than I should have absolute shockers on things I should be able to walk up blindfolded. 

I haven't 'hidden it' - it's been hidden for well over a year now.

In reply to tehmarks:

I think this is a universal truth 😁

In reply to MikeSP:

Peterborough has been in lockdown since late December when it went into "emergency tier 4" restrictions. My parents live there and my mother was telling me it's still about the 7th highest area in the UK for covid-19 cases. It shows the current lockdown isn't working as well as it should be...

Why? I don't claim special insight. But, it's an area with plenty of manufacturing jobs and logistics warehouses, as well as a fair bit of poverty. Under current guidance/legislation, people are going on the bus everyday to work in factories and warehouses where the new UK variant - with increased transmissibility - is spreading like wildfire. And for what? Amazon-style working conditions and minimum wages in many cases. And then, many people are returning from work to cramped accommodation. I've no data to back that up, but that would be my best guess.

If we want to get out of this, workers need to be empowered to not have to go into unsafe workplaces. There is some existing legislation, but asking individuals to take on this fight isn't enough - government needs to lead. But, it won't - because the Tories don't care if ordinary people die.

That's why we are where we are, in my opinion - not because of a few dozen people "taking the piss" with climbing or some teenagers letting off steam. Even though, of course, we should be doing what we can to look after each other.

In reply to sandrow:

(And says the man who doesn't actually have a logbook or even a profile to speak of).

In reply to tehmark

 

I think they probably mean this: https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/harthope_quarry-16007/fly_tipping_...

In reply to Michael Hood:

Certainly seen someone (hopefully just a troll) on facebook making the claim that their nearest climbing wall is 45miles away as if 'nearest' and 'local' were interchangable. Some quick sums revealed that an area of radius 45miles is 6000+ square miles - larger than serveral European countries (somewhere between Montenegro and Solvenia in area).