UKH

Did the lower one, but maybe climbing more on the wall slightly on the left of the line in the topo before stretching over right to the stance on Debauchery. I managed to get some good gear in to protect the moves up  (though i reckon you'd be in for a big swing if you missed or didn't place it) and it would be a fair old lob if you fluffed the easier moves above going to the stance. Felt pretty 5c ish to me but not particularly experienced at 5c.

Thanks. Someone has emailed me with this confirmation as well. The higher line is probably closer to 5b which explains why I thought the 5c grade for this pitch was a bit over the top, however I can see that the lower line is probably more elegant, involves less of Lyme Cryme and is probably the original line.

I am a bit puzzled by the 5c for the traverse on the last pitch as well though since that certainly didn't feel anything like as hard as the '5c' crux of Darius which we finished up.

Overall I'd go for Delicatessen E2 5b, 5b, 5b going my higher way and splitting at the Lyme Cryme belay. May well be worth 5c though for what I suspect is the proper way on the middle pitch.

Alan

It's a long, long time since I did it, 1971 ish, but I'm fairly certain I took the lower line and at that time I thought 5c seemed a reasonable grade.

Al

I completely missed the crux, I didn't traverse at the right point. Instead I continued up Lyme Crime then spotted the Debauchery stance below me, traversed right and then down climbed (Robert Brown?) to the ledge. Probs only 5b this way

I did the lower and it was the pitches crux seemed 5c. I thought the second pitch was always 5b but sustained

If that's the top crux of Darius, honestly, the "E3 6a" variation going straight up is easier... :-s

Interesting. It didn't 'look' easier last week when I was standing under it. Seemed to be a dearth of decent footholds and just the one good left-hand hold to get up on to grab the undercut. Above that there was nothing very substantial to go for. However I didn't try it since the left-hand method felt quite natural with regard to what we had climbed below. If Chris had put the bolt further to the left then the direct finish might never have existed!

Alan

Didn't someone once famously say that you could climb anywhere on High Tor at 6a (or was it 6b?)

"What next a route in the shape of the first ascentionist's initials?" Crags mag I think. 

I just enlarged the original hole, there had been a golo in there I think,

Chris

Quite a number of routes need a re-grade then....

Indeed, "a decade-old bolt" as Paul Nunn elegantly put it. 

I did it two years ago and both pitches felt like E2. I'm sure I took the lower line, going up a thin crack or line of weakness with not enough gear on hard moves to the belay. Then pitch 2 is 5b, but it's s scary traverse on incredibly rough rock. If you fall off, you'll bleed