UKH

/ Climbing World Champs (may contain spoilers)

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JLS on 10 Sep 2018

Well, home wins in both male & female lead for the Austrians.

Disappointment for favorites Ondra and Janja.

Bit of controversey with the ad banner DQ's.

Remind me again, what's the combined format for the Olympic style combined finals and who qualifies?

mal_meech on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to JLS:

Aye, Janja missing gold by 10 seconds and Ondra slipping on the same move as Jakob and losing on count back made it a couple of interesting finals. (Both available on iplayer!!!)

In this comp the combined format will be next weekend and will consist of the top 6 after the three individual rounds, with combined lead, speed and bouldering all in the same day. From what I understood of the olympic format, the finishing places are multiplied (ie 1st, 1st, 3rd = 3, 2nd 2nd 1st =4 etc) and the lowest score wins. 

Not clear to me yet whether qualifiers are the overall combined (as in top 6 who do multiple events) or the first 6 in each discipline (as I'm going on the commentary mentions, and haven't bothered to check yet...)

Will find out more during the speed and bouldering competitions during this week..  

 

 

samwillo - on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to JLS:

Shame the women's final was decided on time.. particularly considering we already have to put up with one arbitrary event dependent on climbing fast.

cragtyke on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to JLS:

It's being shown on Eurosport not sure if it's live  or not. Men's lead final was on last night.

JLS on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to cragtyke:

Yeah, they seem to be covering it live.  Was it the IFSC live stream commentary team of Charlie and Matt?

JLS on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to samwillo:

The route setters have my sympathy. Pretty tough job to come up with something that will separate Jessica and Janja while not being too harsh on the others.

Route setters: apart from that rubbish brusher.

Post edited at 14:54
mal_meech on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to JLS:

The iplayer commentary is the same as the IFSC youtube live stream.

mal_meech on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to samwillo:

> Shame the women's final was decided on time.. particularly considering we already have to put up with one arbitrary event dependent on climbing fast.

True, but with so many to go through the qualifying round it's better than count back when people have climbed different qualification routes!

JLS on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to mal_meech:

Cheers. I've Eurosport Player for the cycling.

Hope you are well. Not bumped into for some time.

mal_meech on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to JLS:

No bad mate, stuck in Aberdeen these days, though still in Glasgow on occasion.

Trust all is good with you.

john arran - on 10 Sep 2018
In reply to mal_meech:

> True, but with so many to go through the qualifying round it's better than count back when people have climbed different qualification routes!

I'm not convinced. While I can see the obvious problem with countback to different routes, the idea that climbing quicker than someone else is laudable is simply not a part of difficulty climbing, and is introducing an entirely artificial incentive for climbers to climb in a way that doesn't suit their natural style. And for what? Purely so that nobody ever needs to climb a superfinal and the even can complete, however artificially, in 'tv time'. To me, that's disappointing.

nacnud - on 11 Sep 2018
In reply to john arran:

I think that argument was lost in the 90s, competition climbing is an entertainment and spectacle, it needs excitement. It's different to other forms of climbing, so the rules and pressures are nuanced differently in order to stress the climbers to determine who can cope with them best. This comp was edge of your seat stuff and all the better for it.

That said I hate the Olympic format, though I doubt it will be boring. 

john arran - on 11 Sep 2018
In reply to nacnud:

I disagree. The reason why it's still edge-of-the-seat stuff even to climbers is that we can relate to it as being very much the same activity as we might be doing at the crag or on the wall. It's rightfully resisted the temptation to become a kind of vertical it's--a-knockout and is all the better for it (unlike, IMO, comp ice climbing, which I find too artificial to be of interest.)

Having a time limit was a compromise, and IMO is justified only if it prevents people from stopping anywhere for more than a brief shakeout, not if it forces people to climb unnaturally quickly and artificially handicaps some of the best climbers as a result.. Having an actual speed incentive is IMO a step too far.

mal_meech on 11 Sep 2018
In reply to john arran:

You hate the 6min rule instead of 8min too then? (I agree with that, as I don’t want the lead final to be a flat out race)

but like it or not, time is a factor, the athletes are timed, and whoever climbed the route faster likely found it easier. Having it as a final deciding factor for a draw I have no problem with. 

I found the disqualification for standing on an advert (likely put up by the route setters) far more controversial.

john arran - on 11 Sep 2018
In reply to mal_meech:

> You hate the 6min rule instead of 8min too then? (I agree with that, as I don’t want the lead final to be a flat out race)

Not per se, as some routes seem to be ok at 6 min, but finals routes are usually longer and often seem to artificially cramp people's style to make sure they don't run out of time.

> but like it or not, time is a factor, the athletes are timed, and whoever climbed the route faster likely found it easier. Having it as a final deciding factor for a draw I have no problem with.

Not sure I agree with 'likely found it easier' being a deciding factor in a World Championship.

> I found the disqualification for standing on an advert (likely put up by the route setters) far more controversial.

Agreed.

 

HansStuttgart - on 11 Sep 2018
In reply to john arran:

I think the superfinal was a terrible idea. To do this properly (with a decent route and rested athletes) you need to plan in a day after the normal end of the events where it can take place. Deciding who wins a climbing competition just is not that important. I'd prefer rolling dice for it

Time as a tie-breaker is also OK. In quite some cases the slower climber is not slow due to more resting, but due to not solving the movements fast enough. For example, Janja was faster than Jessica up to the final balancy section. Jessica was very smooth and fast here while Janja took a lot of time to figure the traverse out. She solved it in the end with a risky move she had been postponing. Another example, Anak in Arco this year. Counter example, Jain  

Pedro50 on 11 Sep 2018
In reply to mal_meech:

> I found the disqualification for standing on an advert (likely put up by the route setters) far more controversial.<

As a non viewer of comps that's made me laugh.

 


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