UKH

For those who have ticked a good portion of Classic Rock, which did you find hardest?

Having led 18, seconded 3 and retreated off another in the rain, there are still loads left for me. 

I found Technical Slab very bold on second (to the point that I don't know if I would lead it), and Modern a pretty committing lead. A friend also fell off Cioch Direct whilst I was on Cioch West nextdoor (some rock fall may have made it harder?). The Long Climb also looks like a big outing. 

I'm interested to hear from those operating around this level which they found toughest and why! It's a vague ambition of mine to complete this arbitrary list. 

I should imagine The Chasm is by far the hardest and the most committing. Still on my to do list.

The Chasm is probably the hardest day although Central Climb on Hen Cloud and top pitch of Direct Route Glyder Fach are technically harder.

Murray's Route was tricky at the start (solo) leaving the big jug for the delicate traverse left.

Rain made Main Wall desperate as well as the Yellow Slab and caused me to fail on a  first attempt at Milestone Buttress Direct.

I failed on the old terriers tooth start as I was only leading VS at the time.

Cullin Ridge is way too hard for me and have no plans to do it in-a-day.

I've done all of the Pennine/Peak & Lake District, plus a few from Wales.

I found the crux on Central Climb at Hen Cloud quite tough.

In the Lake District, I'd say Jones' Route Direct from Lord's Rake was meaty for HS. The approach was interesting, the first pitch delicate, and the exposed move onto the ledge from "the waiting room" was memorable.

I didn't find Central Climb too bad. The first pitch was a bit desperate but thought Modern was more committing (and riskier). I did them both last weekend. Found the second pitch of CC fine with a size 5 cam. 

Have done most outside of Scotland but as mentioned The Chasm (Summer) (VS) felt the hardest. This is my comment in the logbook:

"True epic! (starting at nearly midday didn't help) climbed through the night, should have made a better effort to bail after pitch 10 (scary for VS) at about 9.30 like the two students we where following. Once dark things slowed down. Started leading the left wall exit in pitch black darkness just after midnight and toped out with no head torch after it fell to bits near the top of the pitch. Things got easier from there as the moon was very bright once out of the Chasm and not long after that it got light again. Went to the summit before heading down in total 21 hours. Felt like a proper punter and it was almost in perfect nick too being very dry. Climbed several pitches by harder variations (completely the wrong side of the gully on the long pitch), and wasn't expecting it all to feel so hard or bold. Must be total nightmare when wet. Would have attempted the direct finish if it hadn't been so late. Maybe I'll be back...."

Note in some guides and there is a photo on ukc there was briefly a car sized chockstone on I think the converging walls pitch but this has now gone again!!

Great Gully (S) would be easily be as hard in poor conditions.

And finally the gear on Grey Slab (VS 4b) (the only one of the 59 I've completely I haven't led the crux pitch) is pretty poor and run out with some suspect rock and usually seepage so needs respect too.

Also thought Central Climb on Hen Cloud was nails for VS too and I do alot of grit.

I'm told that long climb and clachaig gully are the most serious in terms of unstable rock. 

Although I've not climbed either. Mainly for that reason. 

Steve Broadbent's new "mountain rock" guide might be a more realistic modern proposition for ticking the lot, if you are a purile ticker like me. 

Hi, 

As with all things climbing this could very much be a style dependent question.  Someone brought up on peak grit would have no problem with the more technical climbing there, but would struggle on some of the more adventurous scottish ones with the route finding and loose rock, but someone happy scambling around in the mountains might find some of those shorter technical ones tricky...

I would imagine the "most failed" route might be a traverse of the Cuillin...?? that is a pure guess, just because of the time required and weather.  Also the likely least number of ascents might be something like The Long Climb...?

The gully's are certainly very condition dependent.  The closest I have come to falling off any of a classic rock climb was the moves above the cave belay on the direct finish of the Chasm in the wet.  saying that the direct finish isn't actually necessary for the classic rock tick..?!?  Climbing Clachaig gully in the rain (and after several days of rain) was also pretty hairy - the bit of gully my partner was holding onto became detached and a he took a tumble along with a big chunk of rock and vegetation....

There are also the odd sneaky hard moves around the place to on relatively easy climbs..the awkward bit on Talisman, the final pitch on Glyder Fach Direct route spring to mind.

Oli.

Possibly the Cuillin traverse? I had a friend who failed on this eight times. On the last occasion he and his partner were cruising along on Bruach na Frithe on a warm summer's afternoon when his partner fell over on level ground and sprained his ankle. You or I would have told the fellow that Fionn Choire should be an easy crawl down and that we'd be round by road with the car just as soon as we'd finished the job and had a pint in the Sligachan Hotel, but my friend was a more responsible type, and never had another chance.  Reinforced my view that the CT is not really a team event.

Having said that, the episode on the Chasm recounted in Always a Little Further does give one pause for thought, as Offwidth hinted. 

jcm

Funnily enough, out of the climbs I’ve done in Classic Rock (a neat 33%) the one that felt the hardest was The Wrinkle (V Diff) on Carreg Wastad.

Technical Slab I have soloed more times that I have had hot dinners.  Now Great Gully of Craig y Ysfa is a different proposition altogether!

As for the Wrinkle, its only the wobbly spikes that are quite well seated that surprise the unsuspecting leader.

No, it is the big gullies that pose the severest test.

The final crack/chimney pitches on both Flying Buttress in the Pass and The Milestone Buttress Direct Route  are both surprisingly tricky for the grades and more difficult than any pitches preceding them.

The TD Gap crux is exceptionally hard for a Diff (as per 1978 edition of Classic Rock)!!

Having completed Classic Rock I would say the hardest is probably the last pitch on The Chasm but it was horribly wet and greasy! Some of the climbs are technically easy but hard to get done because of conditions. I think The Long Climb took 3 visits as it was always wet. 

Just remembered The Clean Sweep was a bit tricky but excellent.

Graham

You really should stick to comedy. Wrinkle is one of a minority of routes in the book that were not undergraded at the time. It's a toss-up on The Cullin Ridge or Terrior's Tooth for the biggest original sandbag but the ridge was upgraded earlier. Naples Needle is another contender but I can't remember it's guidebook grade then.

I've done all the Welsh and English CR (bar Pillar) and Great Gully seemed a flippin nightmare! All that grovelling in steep, slippery vegetation then I  couldn't lead the final cave. Grrrr.

 I've walked 2 hours into Pillar twice and still failed to get up anything due to sudden deluges so I guess those 2 routes are proving pretty hard as well! 

Strange comment.

The question wasn’t about grading or sandbags, or even which route is the hardest...it was..which route felt the hardest. 
Out of the Classic Rock routes I’ve done, all confined to North Wales, The Peak and several in the Lakes, Wrinkle felt the hardest..The climb that looked the hardest was Tophet Wall. I wasn’t attempting to make anyone giggle, was just answering the question.

It's given V Diff in my Classic Rock (1978)

As far as I know, Napes Needle has always been given 'Very Difficult (Hard)' and more modern guidebooks, Hard V Diff. Interestingly, neither Haskett Smith, or O G Jones, or the Abrahams gave it a grade as such. Jones simply said it was 'a route for experts'.

Has anyone put a UKC ticklist of Mountain Rock together yet? It'd be interesting to take a look. I remember the author canvassing UKC for ideas and a draft ticklist circulating... https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=3618

Did it end up as per this, or was it revised?

It probably wasn’t polished to a mirror finish when originally graded.

Tip: Don’t start the for the Chasm from the Kingshouse at about 2pm.

It's been HS for a while now. I don't know when the change occured as I lost most of our Lakes guides from the 70s onwards.

Had an absolute mare on Murrays Route a few years ago, hated it. Dropped the slab on second, got lost further up and couldn't do the final crack pitch at all on lead. Took 5 hours, useless!!!

Looks right at first glance. 

Great thread...

My thoughts appear to be in line with most, insofar as - despite their differences - The Chasm and the Cuillin Ridge Traverse would be the two biggest/hardest routes I've done within the book.

Clearly they couldn't be any more different if they tried, but both are a real test. The former is a test of traditionalism, insofar as it makes Great Gully on Craig yr Ysfa look positively light and fluffy in comparison. It was a fair few years ago that we did it, but I still remember reaching that final pitch before freedom (the one out of the Devil's Cauldron) and thinking "can we actually do this?!". The line we had to climb was an absolute waterfall and felt like one of the leads of my life. My only regret is that I didn't bring a snorkel...

When it comes to the Cuillin Ridge, I don't think I can overstate just what a long and consistently challenging day out it is, as the technical terrain keeps coming and coming. The climbing isn't desperate, although the TD Gap demands respect, as does Naismith's; however, what demands the most respect is the sheer level of fitness required to do it (it'd definitely be worthwhile going for a few long walks and/or runs before embarking on it). Due to the idiosyncrasies of Skye weather it took me a fair few visits to get it done in a day, but that day still ranks as one of the best I've had anywhere in the world.

We did it after one of those long spring droughts that Scotland sometimes gets - did Trapeze and Carnivore in the same short trip. The Chasm was fine, I don't believe we got involved with any wet rock at all - it must be many grades harder if not in good nick,

Chris

Thanks!

It's very predictable. It's a shame they didn't do something different with the book. At the very least, they should have upped the grade to HVS and included routes that would benefit from extra attention, like Raven Crag Buttress (VD), Square Cut Chimney and Medusa Wall (VS) or High Crag Buttress (HVS), rather than over-trodden valley Classic Rock ticks, like Little Cham and Troutdale Pinnacle.

BTW, I thought the crux was HS when I did it in the mid-70s. Strange that, above, I got a dislike for simply reporting how all the traditional guidebooks, for many decades, gave it Hard V Diff. But I guess we have to get used to the fact that in this Bojovian new age of mendacity, any factually true report is likely to be reviled.