UKH

To define best - I would say the route needs to be a minimum of 2 pitches, it gets better if the pitches are of varying style i.e one is a hand crack and another is slabby, it gets even better if it's in a wild location like mountain or sea cliff environment.  

In terms of where - basically a cheap-ish flight from the UK, so I would include Europe and North Africa (I was thinking of either Morocco or Jordan) ... I would also exclude Norway and Iceland as they are prohibitively expensive (if you cant afford a beer near the climb... is it really the best!?)

I would suggest Vestpillaren (n6-) might well be the best E2, which meets all the criteria except the nearby beer prices.

or Saxon (E2 5c) in the UK? 

Motorhead (6a+) also fits the bill....except it sounds like maybe it's E3 in UK money? 

Or is it still Left Wall?  

In reply to Kemics:

I don't know what the best is, but I don't think motorhead is E3!!!

In reply to Kemics:

Nexus. Or anything on Gogarth - Resolution? 

In reply to Kemics:

Vestpillaren, albeit it’s all slabby.

Either areta in Salbit, West I think being better. 

.In reply to Kemics:

What a silly set of criteria you have imposed on an otherwise intriguing question. 

In reply to Kemics:

Torro (E2 5c)

Left Wall (E2 5c)

Mousetrap (E2 5a)

In reply to AJM:

I thought it probably was,

Chris

In reply to Tom Valentine:

I guess best is subjective - and those are the things I enjoy. If you can justify why a road side single pitch route is the best E2 (In terms of experience) then go for it! but I reckon more pitches in an exciting setting wins hands down every time 

In reply to Kemics:

Main mast at sail rock, donegal, Ireland. Amazing climbing in an outstanding situation. 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I reckon Gogarth (the E1 route) might be the best E1 i've done. So makes sense neighbouring E2 would be mega quality 

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Glad to see you nominate Nexus as a contender. A wonderful, continually interesting, varied route on superlative rock in a beautiful, wild, exposed setting.

Snag: I see now that it's E1 (I'd forgotten), but I think it must be very top-end E1.

In reply to kylos8048:

I'd never heard of it... but looks like an incredible line, the few photos on here look wild! 

In reply to Kemics:

Gogarth is good but it's not a great route by that cliffs standards!

a couple more E2's for discussion:

Mandarin (E2 5c)

Wendigo (E2 5b)

However I think most of the best E2's are probably in Scotland.

In reply to Kemics:

So I’m guessing you’ve not been to Fairhead yet?

In reply to Kemics:

No,  I was thinking about stuff like "the nearest pub to Left Wall has always served shite beer so LW can't be a contender."

In reply to kevin stephens:

You probably need a new discussion" best E2's in Europe but must be in Ireland"

In reply to kevin stephens:

Fairhead is a contender for best concentrations of 3* e2's. But in fairness not one stands out. They are all unbelievably good. Hurricane, brasser, sandpiper, Cúchulainn, Mizen Star, equinox, blind pew, embankment. All mega routes. But not one that I'd describe as the best in Ireland/uk/europe. And I fooking love fairhead  

In reply to Kemics:

Oh, and the logical Voi Suisse to O Sole Mio on Gran Cap, no aid only nice ~6a+ or so free climbing. Varied climbing and a proper summit. 

In reply to Kemics:

I guess someone has to mention Prophecy of Drowning (E2 5c) before long ...

In reply to Chris Craggs:

I thought E1/2 was the more common translation to a UK grade. I'd go for the E2 end personally, but that's me...

In reply to HeMa:

now we're talking! That looks incredible. 17 pitches is a big day

In reply to kylos8048:

Fair point, I’ve done all of those apart from Embankment. However if any one of those were the only good climb on an otherwise mediocre crag on The island of Great Britain they would get much more attention . These threads, as entertaining as they are always come down to the subjective experience of the climb. On this basis I would add to the mix Mercury Direct on Carn Gowla. Routes which have been wrongly (IMHO) upgraded from E2 like Ratrace at Gogarth, and further afield Another Day In Paradise on Piz Badile (but some may say E3?) Another Day in Paradise (TD)

In reply to Coel Hellier:

A great route and a fun day out with you Coel but strangely the experience of climbing it somehow didn’t match the expectation from its incredible position when seen from a distance?

In reply to Kemics:

It’s nice, and luckily not that far from rif Torino. 

In reply to Kemics:

You need to get out more in that case!

In reply to Kemics:

In no particular order:

Prophecy of Drowning (E2 5c)

Vestpillaren Direct (n6)

The Star of Abu Judaidah (ED1)

Steeple (E2 5c)

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Nexus E2 ???

In reply to Robert Durran:

We have a winner! 

Followed closely, in my opinion, by:

Sula (E2 5b)

In reply to Kemics:

yep Vestpillaren Direct (n6) does it for me. Especially when you stash a couple of tinnies in the layby to drink while you're waiting for your lift back. Best route I've done for a long time.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I can't see any other sea cliff route getting close (although I think the route's E1) - certainly none of the Gogarth (or Gowla) novelty choss routes suggested, these are tripe in comparison. Unfortunately Cornwall doesn't really have any super-classic multi-pitch E2s except Bow Wall, but that's just cragging. I suppose there's Xanadu, but that looks 'orrible.

I'm not qualified to comment on trad outside the UK, nor on the Scottish mountains - but there should be a sea cliff route in the mix, and that should be Prophesy. The other big Barra Isle E2s, Sula (E2 5b)and U-Ei (E2 5b) are also miles ahead of all other UK sea cliffs, but Prophesy is the best, mainly because it's sunny and dry.

In reply to kevin stephens:

That's 'cause it's piss easy. If it was graded HVS you'd probably enjoy it more.

In reply to Kemics:

I don't think you mean that Vestpillaren do you? I think you mean this Vestpillaren Direct (n6) and if that is the one you mean, is it actually E2? If so, good, as that's two E2s I've done in going on 30 years of climbing! But I would think it's actually E1, but just longer than routes we're used to in the UK - which sort of shows the problem of using UK grades outside the UK.

Anyway, I think Sydpilaren (n6-) is a better route than Vestpillaren. It gets 6- when Vestpillaren Direct gets 6, but it's bigger and more committing so if it gets an E grade for commitment maybe it deserves an E2 more than its little sister across Vestfjorden.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I think it’s more that apart from the wild step on P1 the route didn’t feel as exposed as it looks from a distance

In reply to TobyA:

But the climbing simply doesn't warrant E2, brilliant day out though it is. I'm actually surprised everyone seems to be accepting Vestpillaren Direct at E2 (I think it is but have had trouble convincing some others!)

In reply to Nathan Adam:

Glad you agree it's amazing!

But the last pitch is a bit nondescript and with dodgy rock, whereas every pitch of Prophecy is 3 stars in itself.

In reply to Kemics:

Choice seems to be a compromise between brilliant technical climbing, exciting memorable exposed positions and maybe a touch of fear (real or illusionary). At least this conundrum and discussion highlights the breadth and depth of UK trad climbing. Cloggy: Jelly Roll then ab down for Shrike? (Of course Shrike used to be E1)

In reply to Robert Durran:

I really enjoyed Flight of Fancy as well which felt around E2 but not sure a route that climbs the lower third of a wall that big could be considered the "best". 

Maybe I was a bit overawed by Sula as it was my first time on Dun Mingulay and we climbed it in glorious evening sunshine with a group of pals ahead and on adjacent routes so gave a great feeling. I thought the last pitch was fine, mostly steep jug hauling and the rock was never too loose but it was very much follow wherever looks best.

I'll have to do Prophecy when I'm on Pabbay this summer to see how it weighs up.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I thought Gogarth was barely a one star route!

In reply to John Stainforth:

Indeed (done it a few times) it skirts around the best pitches on Devotee

In reply to Kemics:

Swastika on the Etive Slabs.

In reply to Le Sapeur:

Isn’t that HVS with one aid move?

In reply to Robert Durran:

I agree with you actually - the year I did Vestpillaren Direct we also did Solen Somer (sp.?), I only seconded but the crux is considerably harder than anything on Vestpillaren.

But if we say it's E1 it sort of messes up Kemic's thread rather!

In reply to TobyA:

I think it really is E2!

In reply to Kemics:

I prefered Darius and Vector to Left Wall

In reply to kevin stephens:

It's E2 without aid. 

In reply to Kemics:

Silver Shadow, on Stackpole Head. It may only be one pitch, but such is it's quality, who could ask for more?

In reply to sn:

It's funny but if I think about it I do rate this route higher than lots of other big sea cliff routes, including routes like Prophecy of Drowning. In fact I can't recall a route I've recommended as emphatically to complete strangers as this one. It's turned into a bit of a nemesis route for my partner, the first time due to the route being rather meaty for us at the time and last year when the headwall was all greasy but everytime we've done it we've both been blown away by the quality of it.  

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Always???

As for "piss easy", I reckon the hard bit at the top of pitch 3 (iirc) puts it into E2, especially given the overall commitment. 

Similarly, Vestpillaren Direct gets E2 overall (even if each pitch would be no more than HVS if it were a single-pitch climb at Millstone). 

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Objection - Xanadu is brilliant, certainly better than Bow Wall. As long as you find it in a condition where Alph the sacred river doesn’t play too big a role. And also outside the cormorant nesting season.

I haven’t done any of the offshore contenders, but in mainland Britain it’s hard to look beyond Torro, Steeple and Shibboleth, with the last of these my favourite, although obviously it also depends on the extent of the role ATSR is playing on the day and one’s attitude to these things.

jcm

In reply to Kemics:

Too many to chose from... some obvious locations/candidates

Val di Mello - e.g. Luna Nascente

Marmolada S face - e.g. Don Quixote,

Hebridies e.g. Dun Mingulay - Sula,

Hollanderen (Kvaloya - Norway) e.g. Flygende Hollender 

In reply to Coel Hellier:

It's a different kettle to the other big E2s which are in the shade and thus presumably always wet, to some degree.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

I thought Motorhead (at least, the 5 pitches we did before being rained off) was a touch harder than Septumania but I don't whether it's E3, especially now when people I guess generally take a lot more small cams than we had.

Anyway, we are seriously limiting our choice of world-class E2 trad climbing by excluding South Africa!

In reply to vscott:

One of my biggest regrets is having done Kundalini and Luna Nascente on two separate days rather than linking them together

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

You may be right but I've never had the chance to find out for exactly that reason.  Honourable mention for Desolation Row though, despite being a single pitch.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Yes, basically easier to catch non-greasy bthat Dun Mingulay.

In reply to poeter210:

Pat littlejohn routes tend to be high quality

In reply to Kemics:

The Long Reach on Glen Etive has to be in there (The Long Reach (E2 5b)) , only E1 when I did it but well deserves the upgrade, just keeps comming at you with almost enough gear. Not sure about variety but certainly maintained the interest well.

In reply to Kemics:

How about this one;

Bienvenue au Georges V (TD+ 6a+)

Just about E2 i think. Fantastic location away from the beaten track, accessed from a great hut, nice little pinnacle to finish on. Certainly stood out for me.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Great route but a wild setting? If the road was permanently closed maybe

In reply to kevin stephens:

I think that's fair.  In fact, I did the top pitch of Devotee by mistake when I did it.

In reply to AlanLittle:

Since Nexus is E1 how about a nomination for 10 Degrees North?

I like the previous suggestion of Saxon and will make mine of Steeple though they're both a bit of a hike to a good pint.

Bow Wall?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I always thought Shibboleth (E2 5c) was regarded as the all-round 'best' E2 in the British Isles. From folk who've done most of 'em.

Flytrap (E3 5c) is hard to beat as a quintessentially British sea cliff adventure.

In reply to Kemics:

Motorhead at E2, not E3 in my book.  Septumania gives it a good run for its money, but loses overall on line and overall consistency of difficulty, but has wins on best few moves in a sequence, lonely padding and the belay armchair of the gods.  

In reply to Tom Briggs:

I'd rather have Steeple for pure climbing pleasure on my desert island!

In reply to Le Sapeur:

If you had to pick a route at Etive, surely it would be Jaywalk (E2 5c). the top pitch is exquisite.

Steve

In reply to Robert Durran:

...which rules out Prophecy as well then. Not to mention Torro.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Sula gets the sun later in the day...

In reply to Kemics:

When you were in Lofoten did you get to do Solens sønner (n6)? I remember it being another one of those sort of "finishes in the middle of nowhere then you ab off" routes, but beyond that 4 pretty amazing pitches of slab climbing, and a definite notch harder than Vestpillaren. 

In reply to TobyA:

No sadly did very little climbing due to rain

Although i think Kantti in findland might be one of the best e2s. Even though it's only 1 pitch, the setting and climbing is amazing. Very vivid experience!

In reply to mike barnard:

I think they are borderline, maybe along with Vestpillaren, but Sudpillaren is not remotely E2.

In reply to Kemics:

Yep - Kantti is superb although I've never led it I've seconded a few times. It does have bolts though, although it isn't a normal "sports route" - but it kind of shows that UK grades are hard to use on sport of quasi-sport!

In reply to TobyA:

It definitely felt more like a trad climb than sport

In reply to Kemics:

Via Gomez Cano on the Penon De Ifach felt more like a trad route than sport to me. Very varied, including an aid pitch, quite a wild feel, and an easy flight away. Time it to finish in the dark and the descent is fun too. 

In reply to Kemics:

Lots of interesting views, only some of which I agree with!

Good though Left Wall may be, I don't really think it can compare with some of the long routes in the Scottish Highlands, and finding one with as many top notch pitches as Torro really blew me away.  I thought it had better climbing than Steeple, though the setting of the latter takes some beating.

Shibboleth takes the "E2 I'm most looking forward to" prize - hope it happens in 2020.

I'm always slightly amused by the cachet afforded to Prophesy of Drowing, not least because we climbed a new route to the right of it a few days after climbing Prophesy, which is just as good (though perhaps a tad harder than E2).

Roll on Summer!

Neil

The OP deserves more than 2 likes and less than 3 dislikes for starting an entertaining thread in a miserable February with lots inspiration to look forward to summer 

In reply to Le Sapeur:

Yes but a short awkward E2 section on a multi pitch HVS is hardly going to qualify for best E2 in Europe and N Africa

having said that it’s a lovely route, I did it same day as the Pause 

In reply to Neil Foster:

So are you saying that Prophecy is overrated or that it might possibly be only the second best E2 in the world?

In reply to Robert Durran:

It has a fair shout for best soft E1

In reply to mike barnard:

Stop waving your willy! There may be only one 5c move but the seriousness does add enough for an E2 grade. If it was at Tremadog it may get E1

In reply to Robert Durran:

I thought Prophesy of Drowning was magnificent (or at least that's what I wrote in my logbook at the time!), but I also wonder whether the name - as good as 'A Dream of White Horses' in my opinion - has contributed to its legendary status?  It is obviously the best route on that area of cliff, being the original, and also the way it manages to climb that big intimidating arete at such a modest standard.  But there are other routes thereabouts on which the actual climbing is as good...

I've not been to Mingulay, but are there not E2's on the big cliff there which compare?

Neil

In reply to Neil Foster:

I think that apart from Sula all the big routes start at E3?

In reply to Dave Garnett:

you wouldn’t be the first, or the last

In reply to kevin stephens:

The trouble is that the central wall can be climbed pretty much anywhere at E3, so it is probably hard to pick a winner at the grade. But I did think Les Voyageurs was incredible with a great line - better than Voyage of Faith in my opinion!

I can feel another thread coming on .....

In reply to Kemics:

Agree with Vector (E2 5c) Every technique on that second pitch and that Ochre slab is very steep for a slab!

Also Aura (E2 5b) which is an amazing pitch that keeps coming at you.

The Strand (E2 5b)  is another wonderful one pitch climb, sustained right the top.

In reply to kevin stephens:

I suspect if it was at Tremadog it would get HVS. (But it isn't at Tremadog)

In reply to Neil Foster:

I agree that the name helps.

I thought Voyage of Faith felt E2 and that is as good.

In reply to mike barnard:

It may have done originally but classic HVS routes like the Plum and Grim Wall Direct have been upgraded to E1 

In reply all

I don't know what the best E2 in Europe is, but I can tell you it's not in the British Isles.

In reply to TobyA:

We did it on our trip, thought the first pitch was a bit dirty and the crux pitch was definitely hard. The last 2 pitches, we did in one racing the rain, it felt very "Etive". Not a patch on Vestpillaren Direct though.

In reply to WB:

You may, of course, be right, but whenever these discussions come up there does seem to be a broadish consensus for a sweet spot of meaty multipitch routes of a length that can comfortably done in a day, so that it is possible to have a really fulfilling experience without the stress of potential benightment or getting struck by lightning in an afternoon storm or whatever. So this tends to rule out proper alpine routes, which are often best enjoyed largely in retrospect (as opposed to rock climbs which happed to be in the Alps such as Motorhead). Such routes of between, say, three and ten pitches do tend to fit the British scale of major sea cliffs and mountain crags (as they do the other areas such as Lofoten and Wadi Rum with contenders); they climb dominant and compelling features of the landscape.

In reply to Kemics:

What amazes me with regards to the uk selection is no mention of Cloggy as far as I can see. How are the mighty fallen. Apologies if I have missed one. I've enjoyed reading the suggestions, particularly the relative merits of Motorhead and Septuamania, both equally good in my opinion.

In reply to jcw:

Well you would be looking for something to compete with Steeple, Shibboleth and Torro. I thought White Slab was superb, but is it quite in that class?

In reply to jcw:

Cloggy doesn’t really have a great route at E2 specifically; I’ve often thought that. The best maybe is Serth, but it’s no Shibboleth.

jcm

In reply to Kemics:

Gosh, just so many. But surely it needs to be at least 5 pitches if not 10. Just as a filter to cut out the relative dross.

SE classic on pic du midi d'osseau.

Pistachio on the alguhales at Cavallers. 

The Big megaluthi, Sella dolomites. 

Etc ad infinitum. 

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

The weird thing is that you could probably say that about just about any route on Cloggy, except those on Great Wall (none of which I've done). I've done just about all the old classics below E1, but in no case was the climbing superb technically. It's all about the atmosphere of the place, the steepness, the exposure and the setting. I'm wracking my brains to try and decide what's the best route I've done there. I didn't do Shrike the day my brother did it, and it's obviously very good in a Cemetery Gates, jug-hauling kind of way, but I suppose I'd have to say Great Slab, because of its sheer grandeur ... but those top slab pitches have tufts of grass growing all over them.

Basically, lots of two-star routes (and one-stars).

In reply to jcw:

I'm sure Jelly Roll, Shrike and White Slab were mentioned somewhere upthread.

I seem to recall a thread a while back titled something like : "Chimes of Freedom is the best single pitch E2 in the country... is Silver Shadow better?

In reply to Robert Durran:

I remember when I did Vector, the team in front of us had done White Slab the day before. They said there was just no comparison, and that White Slab was really quite crappy.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Open to debate but yes I would say it's a whole star better; wilder, more exposed and the climbing is in your face from start to finish, whereas Chimes is easy climbing around a hard crux. Feels wild at the time but tame once you've done both!

In reply to Kemics:

couldn't resist....

Vector isn't even the best E2 at Tremadog....that's The Weaver, probably the best E2 in North Wales.

Luna Nascente would probably get my vote.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I thought White Slab held its own with the best long Scottish mountain routes (almost!). Vector was a polished horror when I did it in 1984. I dread to think what the Ochre Slab is like now. It was a good route, but I think there are many much better E2's in N. Wales, let alone the whole UK. It goes down another notch if you take ambience into account.

Edit: I did White Slab relatively recently, so maybe, while Vector has become more and more polished, it has cleaned up - I don't recall it being at all marred by vegetation.

In reply to RogerG:

Paul would have been pleased to hear that. He used to call Vector buttress Weaver buttress 

In reply to RogerG:

I agree with you about Weaver. Certainly the best E2 I ever did.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Interesting.  I preferred Vector to both Weaver and Void but then I like routes that wander around a bit as opposed to being a straight line.  Don't know what it's like now but the bit from the top of the spike to the Ochre slab was polished when I did it in the early 70's.

Al

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

Certainly I remember it being horrible by the end of the 70s.

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

It's interesting to compare Vector and Weaver, superb companion routes, yet so different. The latter has arguably the better climbing (especially the crux) and the rock is even better, yet it lacks something the 'cachet' and character of the former. The names are fun. Vector means something like 'a line of force and direction', when in fact it weaves all over the place to find its way through the overhangs, whereas Weaver is a direct route of great force. I'm sure its name was a little joke by its first ascensionist, the late, great Paul Williams (I think).

In reply to Dave Garnett:

I can't remember much about the bit above the spike, but the Ochre Slab itself I found absolutely brilliant (in 1983). A really amazing crux move: a huge rockover on a minute little polished bobble on the slab. Then you just kind of floated upwards (and rightwards).

In reply to Kemics:

What about Ten Degrees North on the Mot? Or has it already had a mention? I thought it was superb and probably better quality climbing than White Slab on Cloggy.

Al

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

My thinking too, although White Slab is predominantly E1. Pinnacle Arete has position but not absolutely top class. Haven't done Shrike so can't comment on that one. Cloggy does have a lot of quality in the other grades though.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

The  name Weaver I am fairly sure was named after the Weaver song which Paul liked at the time. Jon of this parish will probably remember. Jon led the probable second ascent a few days later with Tony.

Sarah

In reply to markfairbank:

Add to that its neighbour 'Amazonia'. Le Marchand de Sable would have once been considered one of the best E2s, but not so now with the fixed rope in place because of the glacier melt.

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

I don't think anyone has mentioned it. I have to agree. I'd put it above Left Wall and up there with any I've done.

In reply to Kemics:

E2, in Europe? They don't understand the concept. Anyway, as a counter to all the North Wales bias I will offer Central Pillar on Esk. It probably had more impact on me personally than most other E2's I did since I had to lead all the hardest bits. Torro is likely better but I swapped leads on that one.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Bow Wall is very ordinary. Xanadu is superb but I would give it E3. Robert Durran thought it was harder.

In reply to Ian Jones:

Agreed. But let's not talk about Bow Wall............

Agreed. And a Fantastic route.

The fact that I used a point of aid on the top pitch means I am rubbish, not that it is harder than E3!

In reply to Ian Jones:

It’s a really hard E2 unless it’s bone dry, for sure. Also better if the gorse isn’t too flourishing.

jcm

In reply to Tony & Sarah:

Well fancy you remembering that - almost! In fact I seem to remember Paul calling it The Weaver as it weaved a more or less independent way up the buttress (even though, as Gordon says, it's quite direct, and in fact finishes up Vector!). I suggested 'The Weaver's Answer' to Paul - a song by an obscure 60s group, Family, which I'd quite liked as a kid... But he stuck with The Weaver.

In reply to Ian Jones:

I agree, I just mentioned it as the most classic E2 in Cornwall, not as a suggest for the best E2 ever. It is just cragging.

In reply to jon:

I assumed it was because it weaved its way through & between the existing lines.

I thought the tosser who climbed between our ropes while we were on the traverse pitch of Nimbus was taking it a bit too literally though.

In reply to Kemics: In May 1968 Mark Springett and myself aided our way up the prominent groove of Xanadu, Mark took a massive fall when a peg came out, with only a hemp waist length securing him to the rope, shaken but not stirred, he soldiered on. As students with a lack of gear, minimal training, techniques were questionable and often seriously dangerous. Our paths separated, we never returned to finish the route. Pat Littlejohn blitzed the Zawn in 1970 and basically freed everything we had aided a few years earlier. They were wonderful times in an awe inspiring rock theatre. Enjoy the route!

In reply to AlanLittle:

Yes, that's what I meant but didn'tarticulate very well!

In reply to jon:

Hi Jon, thanks for the correction, it was a long time ago. We are staying with John Arran at the moment (Ariege). Will email you later.

Tony & Sarah

In reply to ian caton:

Would that be Via Micheluzzi on the Ciavezes?  I was out in the Dolomites 12 years ago with Kev Stephens and some of his friends.  They were E2 / E3 climbers and one said it was the best E1 he'd ever done.  4 pitches up, 4 across and then another 4 up. And not wildly obvious in the route finding department.

Sounds brill.  A proper four star adventure.

In reply to Stephen R Young:

Awesome story! The 60's and 70's must have been the wild west in terms of safety margins. I cant imagine hearing about a climbing area by word of mouth and turning up and finding amazing unclimbed lines. What an experience 

In reply to Dave Cundy:

Yes, couldn't remember how to spell it. Run out as well. E2 because very difficult to retreat from if it starts chucking it down. 

In reply to RogerG:

I've done both and can't remember the Weaver at all, but I can remember virtually every move on Vector.

As an aside, the first time I did Nimbus in 1971 I found a peg, used it for aid as the guidebook said a point of aid, climbed a groove and appeared at the layback at the top of Vector. This may have been where Weaver goes now.

In reply to Kemics:

While I would lend support to the claims of Torro (E2 5c) and Steeple (E2 5c) holding their own with anything Ive found in Europe, im surprised nobody has suggested

Merlin's Wand (6a+) (although might be more like E1) - stunning location, beautiful rock architecture with an eye-catching line, fluid movement and epic hospitality from the locals

or

Rabada-Navarro (6c) - certainly not soft, and its got it all : 700m of cracks, slabs, a pendulum traverse, and a bar a stones-throw from the base!

In reply to Kemics:

The Rebuffat route on the Midi possibly equates to E2 and is very good.

Al

In reply to Dr Toph:

Yes, I think E1 is fair, but when someone starts an equivalent E1 thread it would certainly be a very strong contender. Likewise the incredible Lionheart (ED1) at E3.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Albeit Neither is in Europe or North Africa. That being said, I do think middle east should also be counted in said list. 

In reply to Dr Toph:

I think the picos is an incredible (and often over looked area) 

In reply to all:

well the votes are in! Thank you everyone for contributions. A really nice mix of routes spread across the multiple countries, regions, styles and rock types. 

I've added most of the suggestions into a 15 route ticklist - https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=3911 

It certainly would make for a hell of a holiday  

In reply to Kemics:

No Torro?

In reply to Robert Durran:

Added now

In reply to Kemics:

Since that's 5 routes in Scotland, and 1 in Wales .... how about  ... hmm, ... let's say Saxon (E2 5c)

In reply to Coel Hellier:

 fair enough! 

In reply to Coel Hellier:

If that's on the list why not Central Pillar?

In reply to Lankyman:

Because it's not as good?

In reply to Robert Durran:

Absolute tosh.

In reply to Lankyman:

My post was a question.

I've not done Saxon,  but Central Pillar, which I have done, hardly compares with Torro or Steeple or Shibboleth, so, if Saxon does, Central Pillar is presumably not as good as Saxon.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Having done them all, I would say that they are all  very good.

What cp has in its favour is that the line is more defined and less  escapable onto easier routes. It is especially good if the direct start and finish are included

How about adding Ichabod into the list?

In reply to Robert Durran:

Came across as a rather blunt put down of CP to me - I apologize for the spiky response. I much preferred all the routes I did on Esk in general because everything on Scafell always seemed so grim to me. Even in August sun I remember getting hot aches (Nazgul I think). Once, we heard a scream as we were gearing up and thought a body was heading our way (none did!). That really added to the whole oppressive atmosphere for me.

In reply to Rick Graham:

By the 'direct finish', do you mean The Cumbrian?

In reply to mike barnard:

Hi Mike 

After the block on the second 5b pitch instead of moving right to easier ground, you can step left to keep on the "central" headwall. 

Edit , a bit of digging on the frcc site came up with a description.

The Central Pillar - Direct Finish 21m E1 5a A good way to finish the route is carry straight on up after the steep wall of pitch 5, avoiding the easy traverse right to pitch 6. Follow pitch 5 to the "doubtful" block and climb up to a higher ledge. Continue up a steep slab and step boldly left under the overhang to finish more easily up a crack on the right edge of the main wall.  

In reply to Rick Graham:

Thanks Rick

In reply to Kemics:

Don Quixote and Wendigo in the same list? That's like a boulder problem and Mousetrap in the same list. Don Quixote is near on half a mile long. 

In reply to ian caton:

I wanted north wales to be represented as i feel mainland British sea cliff climbing is something special...and whatever it is, Gogarth is the best of it. But if you have a better suggestion im all for it

In reply to Kemics:

The Quartz Icicle (E2 5b) ?

In reply to Kemics:

Thanks for the tick list - I'm about half way through and they were all memorable trips, so I look forward to sampling a few more! 

Meanwhile, if people want a bit of inspiration or beta, here are my blog posts from a selection of these:

Another Day in Paradise 

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2017/07/15/another-day-in-paradise-ne-face... 

Luna Nascente 

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2017/07/12/luna-nascente/ 

Saxon

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2019/07/17/saxon-on-scafell/

... Plus Fly Trap, which got a mention in the thread but was supplanted by Quartz Icicle as the Gogarth entry. No contest for which lives longer in the mind! 

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2017/09/01/flytrap-on-gogarth-north-stack-...

Now to get a Pabbay trip planned .. 

In reply to Kemics:

My vote is Hægar (n6+). It gets n6+ but it was originally a UIAA 6+ and I think the the latter grade is closer to the mark. The crux pitch is very easily protected after the first couple of metres, so I would say E2 is right. It's outstanding climbing the whole way and leagues ahead of anything that I have done in the UK.