Best Crag in Peaks for Newbie?

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 Julia Climbs 03 Nov 2020

Hi there, have just bought a trad rack (plenty of cams) and my boyfriend and I are keen to get outdoors climbing once this lockdown has finished.  We've done plenty of indoor climbing and back in the summer did a trad leading course with a guide in the Lakes.  The Peaks is our nearest venue so we've borrowed an Eastern Grit guidebook.  It's confusing though with so many crags to choose from.  Which crag would you recommend for some first time trad climbers?  We'd like to practice placing plenty of gear and for the top belays to be fairly easy to set up.  Thanks.

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 Tom Valentine 03 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Hi JC

Welcome to UKC.

You might get a bit of stick for referring to your local national park as the "Peaks" rather than the "Peak" but it will be all good natured stuff.

Stanage is a very big crag in the linear sense and somewhere along its length you will find an area to suit your needs.

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In reply to Julia Climbs:

Burbage north another good choice- has a ‘friendly’ feel, lots of easy stuff to play about on

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 SouthernSteve 03 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

I like Birchen to take new people too, the starts are a bit intimidating, but everything is easier from there. The suggestions of Burbage North and Stanage above are good. 

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OP Julia Climbs 03 Nov 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

Thanks, is one end easier than the other?  Seems to be lots of choice at the Popular end?  Would this be a good start?  Ideally looking for Severe grade climbs or easier.  Sorry will refer to The Peak from now on - oops!

OP Julia Climbs 03 Nov 2020
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Great, thank you.  Agree it looks good.

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 Tom Valentine 03 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Personally I like High Neb and if you;re thinking of setting up top ropes a quieter section such as this moving on towards Stanage End might be better.

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 TobyA 03 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Considering you'll be going in early December presumably if you're not going to climb during this next month, one of the biggest considerations will be which crag won't be too windy and cold. Take a really big coat to belay in and a large flask of hot tea where ever you go.

Stanage for instance is very exposed to W and SW winds. I can feel pretty brutal. Places like Rivelin can be more sheltered mid winter.

And Peak, not Peaks.

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 ebdon 03 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Stannage is the best crag in the world, probably the best in the Peak as well

Allthough trad in December can be grim!

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OP Julia Climbs 03 Nov 2020
In reply to ebdon:

> Stannage is the best crag in the world, probably the best in the Peak as well

> Allthough trad in December can be grim!

Thanks, we will wrap up warm of course.  Lets hope for some sunshine.

 climberchristy 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Hi. Hope your venture into trad goes well. Stanage gives you huge choice and is the finest crag in the Peak if not the world! 😀However, as someone said above, Rivelin is often much more sheltered from the south / westerly wind and can be pleasant on a sunny day even in winter. Wherever you end up have fun! 

J1234 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Even if its not fit to climb, you could go for a walk and taking some of your nice new shiny kit and practice placing it. Cams are great, however work on placing those nuts, try placing them at different angles and the like. Also if you go to a crag, not to climb, take your guidebook, identify some routes and suss things out.
When you go, do not be shy to ask for advice, following social distancing, people are often loathe to offer it with out being asked, but if unsure ask, people love to help, hint its not always the person with the shiniest kit or the biggest rack who gives the best advice.

I would suggest you could take a look at the area West of High Neb towards Crow Chin, a bit quieter so you will not feel in the way, but people about to ask, if you want, but dogs not welcome IIRC

Enjoy. 

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OP Julia Climbs 04 Nov 2020
In reply to climberchristy:

Thank you, sounds like a good suggestion and will also check it out.

OP Julia Climbs 04 Nov 2020
In reply to J1234:

> Even if its not fit to climb, you could go for a walk and taking some of your nice new shiny kit and practice placing it. Cams are great, however work on placing those nuts, try placing them at different angles and the like. Also if you go to a crag, not to climb, take your guidebook, identify some routes and suss things out.

Thank you, I'd never thought of that but makes good sense.

 Rog Wilko 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Coming fresh from indoor walls you are likely to find grit something of a culture shock. An easier intro might be quarried grit where holds are often more sharp and less rounded. Lawrencefield has some easier routes and Froggatt has some suitable routes in the easier grades, some of which are quarried rock. To be honest your best baptism would be Windgather, but that isn't Eastern Grit.

Take care and enjoy. Don't try to use the indoor and outdoor grade comparisons - they're rubbish, especially on grit.

OP Julia Climbs 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

> To be honest your best baptism would be Windgather, but that isn't Eastern Grit.

Thanks, we don't have that in our guide and a friend at the wall mentioned this crag.  He also said that Stanage was easier to arrange belays at the top though.  Is this correct?

 LakesWinter 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

I'd agree with what Toby said - unless the wind is light, from the east or non existant then choose a sheltered crag in dec/jan/feb. 

Lawrencefield is sheltered and ok in the winter as long as it didnt rain the day before you go

 kedvenc72 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

I'd also suggest Windgather. The climbs are predominantly low grade, friendly angle, can often stand comfortably to fiddle around with gear without getting pumped or scared, and most routes have lots of places for good runners.

In terms of belays it doesn't have big boulders to sling/thread but there are obvious cracks in which to place good nuts and maybe a bit of searching/thinking (but that is the exception). In my mind a better place to learn because of that.

Post edited at 09:22
 Duncan Bourne 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Also a few to avoid as a newbie (which doesn't mean that there aren't easier climbs there)

Higgar Tor

Burbage South

Curbar

Chatsworth

Cratcliffe

These areas tend to be steep and thuggy or thin and sketchy

 GrahamD 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Personally I'd go for Frogatt at this time of year unless the weather is exceptional.  For even worse weather days I'd say Rivlin - although there are fewer easier options there are plenty for a few visits.

Get a guide book and get inspired !

OP Julia Climbs 04 Nov 2020
In reply to kedvenc72:

Thanks, where can we find a guidebook to Windgather?

J1234 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

If you subscribe to the Rockfax app, you can do it month by month, I do this, so if I am going to a new venue, I start the app for that month, then cancel it. 

But there is a certain joy to owning Guidebooks and using them to fuel dreams and plan plans, and for this the App does not cut the mustard.

 steveb2006 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

> Thanks, where can we find a guidebook to Windgather?

Rockfax Western Grit / BMC The Roaches.

As others have said for winter grit Rivellin is worth bearing in mind - one of the few (only?) S facing gritstone crags in The Peak. Lawrencefield pretty sheltered too. Yarncliffe Quarry may be worth a look too (lot of trees at top for belays and easier routes)

Steve

 Rog Wilko 04 Nov 2020
In reply to J1234:

Such an old romantic, Steve. 😋

 deepsoup 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

> Thanks, where can we find a guidebook to Windgather?

It's in Western Grit.  (Along with other, much more impressive, crags.  The Roaches being the obvious biggie.)

Personally I wouldn't recommend Windgather.  It's very small, which is good in that it's not intimidating, but ironically that can make leading more dangerous if you do fall at any point because you're never far off the ground.  Even right at the top you really couldn't afford for a piece of gear to pop and be caught by the next runner down.

Also arranging belays at the top can be tricky.  There are no trees or boulders to just chuck a sling around, you generally have to place and equalise gear - which is good practice for sure, but probably not something you want to be completely relying on getting right in the early days.

Froggatt is the other biggie in the Eastern Grit area after Stanage, and has the advantage of lots of trees along the bottom to give a bit of shelter from the wind so it often feels warmer on a chilly day.

There isn't a vast amount to go at in the lower grades (or any grades) at Rivelin, but it can be a real sun trap - lovely on a bright and chilly winter's day.

Not quite in the Peak, nor stictly speaking gritstone, but another crag that could be worth a look might be Wharncliffe.  (It's in Eastern Grit.)  It's a coal measure sandstone that's very similar to grit but tends to have sharper edges and less slopey holds.  Belays are generally easy to arrange, the easier routes are short and fairly friendly.  Black Slab especially. (But the landings at the bottom, among the jumble of boulders, tend to be horrendous so don't deck out!)

At the "popular" end it's not the most aesthetically pleasing of crags.  Views improve dramatically as you go further along the crag to Long John's Stride, but unfortunately the routes also get harder and considerably more scary.

 Rog Wilko 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

>   He also said that Stanage was easier to arrange belays at the top though.  Is this correct?

It is true that Windgather has issues with secure belays, but the answer is to find a route you fancy (not hard, there are plenty) then go to the top and suss out the anchors, then choose something else if you're not happy. To be honest there is no better novice crag in the Peak.

 Rog Wilko 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Duncan Bourne:

Useful list, with which I concur. I would add Black Rocks.

 Duncan Bourne 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Ooo yes I had forgotten Black Rocks. The scene of many a srtruggle and cries of "VS is it F**K!"

 Rog Wilko 04 Nov 2020
In reply to TobyA:

As you say, the weather is critical in winter, and the wind is second only to whether or not it's raining. Wind direction is crucial. The ideal is blue sky and no wind obvs (rare) but if you get a north wind the sky is often clear and south facing crags can be very pleasant even with air temperature in low single figures. East wind can often be your friend too. 

 GrahamD 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Duncan Bourne:

> Ooo yes I had forgotten Black Rocks. The scene of many a srtruggle and cries of "VS is it F**K!"

You've seen me there ?

OP Julia Climbs 04 Nov 2020
In reply to deepsoup:

Thank you very much for taking the time to post so much useful info.  I'll download the Rockfax Appp I think.

 mark s 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Pretty much all grit crags have easy routes. Your decision is more likely weather based. Exposed trad in December will be cold on most days 

As a newbie trad climber Windgather has been by far the best place so far, although as said previously the belays take a bit more work. Think it did me some good though. 

Burbage north (I think, which ever is known as the more beginner friendly) was also great though and easy belays at the top. Being so close you can also nip to Stanage to do Hollybush Crack as well. Outrageously good fun and has loads of gear. It’s also quite friendly for an indoor climber as there’s massive jugs pretty much all the way.

Have fun!  

For a novice climber Windgather is nice, but as my local crag I would say there are better option for a novice 'belay setter upper'. Also in winter it can be very exposed. Stanage, Froggat and Burbage north are much better options I think.

But as said earlier; dry day, big coat and  check (or even set up) the belay together  before setting off is a good rule of thumb during the first climbs at any of the options.

 ChrisJD 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

>Sorry will refer to The Peak from now on - oops!

Using 'Peaks' is fine

Stanage would be a fine choice for your first port of call for the grit. 

With all the other crags on offer, I wouldn't go to Windgather for a first taste of grit.

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 ebdon 04 Nov 2020
In reply to ChrisJD:

Firstly Peaks is NOT fine, I appreciate you may live there and I don't but if weve learnt one from 2020 actual relevance is no match for SHOUTY OPINIONS.

Secondly sadly based on another thread I think the op has been banned for being a paid shill for nut job conspiracy theorists and never had any real interest in the wonders of winter grit. Strange times.

Post edited at 19:20
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 Paul Tanner 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Don`t forget about Raven Tor, classic peak, plenty of in situ gear as well. 

 Rob Exile Ward 04 Nov 2020
In reply to ebdon:

Is it just me, or isn't it a bit late in the year for a beginner to be venturing on to grit?

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 Tom Valentine 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

To listen to half the people on here you should only be climbing on grit in winter. It's bollocks, I know.

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 deepsoup 04 Nov 2020
In reply to ebdon:

> I appreciate you may live there...

Contrary to popular opinion about the Peak vs Peaks thing correlating to locals vs tourists, in actual fact a surprisingly large number of the locals are also WRONG.

E2A:
It's nice to see this interminable debate is not dead yet, at least while it remains good humoured.  For a while there I thought we'd all given up and bowed to the inevitable.

I only knew him through his posts on here, but I sometimes like to think of the odd "It's PEAK!!" post as a way of raising a virtual glass to Al Evans.  Cheers Al.

Post edited at 20:24
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 Rog Wilko 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I remember climbing at Stanage in December in my first year of climbing. We were a bit tougher them days.

 Rog Wilko 04 Nov 2020
In reply to ebdon:

So we've all been taken for fools. That's nice isn't it? The conversation was quite believable though, wasn't it?

Still, maybe some genuine novices tuned in and got some good advice. But who wants to be suspicious of everybody else?  I'd much rather be gullible but helpful. 

This is how the online world is these days. Wonder if Tim B-L ever wishes he hadn't developed the internet.

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 Becky E 04 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

> Thanks, where can we find a guidebook to Windgather?

The recently-published Wired guidebook for the Peak District has all the crags in your borrowed Eastern Grit, and also the western grit.  It's a selective guide, but actually has every single route at Windgather in it.  If you only buy one guidebook for the Peak District, let this be it.

https://shop.thebmc.co.uk/product/peak-district-grit-wired-guide/

 FactorXXX 04 Nov 2020
In reply to ebdon:

> Secondly sadly based on another thread I think the op has been banned for being a paid shill for nut job conspiracy theorists and never had any real interest in the wonders of winter grit. Strange times.

What actual proof is there of that?
 

 ebdon 04 Nov 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

Don't look at me! It was Wintertree wot done it. Im just reporting what went down in the off belay forum they started. I clearly had no idea this was even a thing and posted a genuine, if not particularly helpful reply here.

 FactorXXX 04 Nov 2020
In reply to ebdon:

> Don't look at me! It was Wintertree wot done it. Im just reporting what went down in the off belay forum they started. I clearly had no idea this was even a thing and posted a genuine, if not particularly helpful reply here.

Apologies for that.
Maybe best directed elsewhere, but I would still like to know why this person has been banned.

 ebdon 04 Nov 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

Personally I hope Julia is a real person and is pouring over a shiny guidebook as we speak but I must admit the posting history was really weird and the ukc troll busters have me convinced.

Either way I only clicked on this bloomin thread as I saw the title and had a burning desire to be an arse to complete strangers over the entomology of the peak district. That will learn me!

 mcdougal 05 Nov 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Haha! remember suffering at Stanage in December for the first four or five years of my climbing too. These days I'd rather poke myself in the eye than lead trad routes with numb fingers! 

Tougher or stupider? I'm not sure.

More psyched? Definitely. 

Post edited at 08:05
 C Witter 05 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs:

Given the lockdown rules, I'd recommend the crags that are in your local council area.

Given the weather and time of year, one facing south, south-west.

Hope that helps.
CW

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 Tim Davies 05 Nov 2020
In reply to ebdon:

good old ukc. How to get from climbing to entomology to etymology via pedantry in about 40 posts. 

 mrphilipoldham 05 Nov 2020
In reply to ChrisJD:

It’s not the grit, it’s the grits.

 Rob Exile Ward 05 Nov 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I'd been climbing for 3 years then I went to Almscliff in December - put me off for the next 3!

 mcdougal 05 Nov 2020
In reply to mcdougal:

110111000101110110011101001110

credibility established /end

 Rog Wilko 05 Nov 2020
In reply to mcdougal:

I can't be the only one who has no idea what this. However, on the plus side it reminds me of the only mathematical joke I've ever heard:

The world is divided into 10 groups, those who understand binary notation and those who don't.

 jkarran 05 Nov 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

> Maybe best directed elsewhere, but I would still like to know why this person has been banned.

I started a thread speculating she was perhaps shill for dangerous libertarian loons. I did so because she was behaving like a shill for dangerous libertarian loons: posting and embellishing formulaic disinformation designed to undermine our ongoing public health effort.

I presume, perhaps after some sort of sanity check, one of the mods on balance agreed. Presumably they, like me consider this beyond the pale.

I have no proof. Julia had every opportunity to raise a complaint against my post and mount a defence of hers.

jk

Post edited at 16:09
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 GrahamD 05 Nov 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

> I can't be the only one who has no idea what this. However, on the plus side it reminds me of the only mathematical joke I've ever heard:

> The world is divided into 10 groups, those who understand binary notation and those who don't.

Surely you heard about the constipated mathematician who worked it all out with logs ?

cb294 05 Nov 2020
In reply to jkarran:

On the off chance that JC was a real person I was wondering which chop route to recommend for her first outing on grit.

Would have to be easy enough down low to allow getting stuck in a dangerous position, no point if they cannot get off the ground or get shut down one meter above the deck.

 ChrisBrooke 05 Nov 2020
In reply to GrahamD:

> Surely you heard about the constipated mathematician who worked it all out with logs ?

I thought he worked it out with a pencil...

 spenser 05 Nov 2020
In reply to cb294:

Pondering what the opposite route would be, I would have suggested Verandah Buttress!

 ChrisJD 05 Nov 2020
In reply to deepsoup:

> I only knew him through his posts on here, but I sometimes like to think of the odd "It's PEAK!!" post as a way of raising a virtual glass to Al Evans.  Cheers Al.

Glass raised to happier times winding Al up over it

Andy Gamisou 05 Nov 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

>  Wonder if Tim B-L ever wishes he hadn't developed the internet.

Doubt it, what with him not having developed it.

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 Martin Hore 05 Nov 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

>  To be honest your best baptism would be Windgather, but that isn't Eastern Grit.

Another vote here for Windgather. (Although there's a hint there in the name to avoid in winter if there's any wind forecast). It's a really friendly but worthwhile beginners crag with lots of incut holds and few if any of the sandbag grades found on so-called easier climbs elsewhere on grit. It's only disadvantage, though potentially a big one, is that finding anchors at the top requires some thought - you'll normally need several anchors, mostly nuts or cams, to feel confident.

We regularly go there with novices on our club beginners' meet. We camp at Hardhurst Farm, Hope. From there, it's really only minutes longer than Stanage once you take the walk-in time into account.

Martin

 GrahamD 06 Nov 2020
In reply to Martin Hore:

What about New Mills ? You don't even have to come out from under the bridge to climb.

 Rog Wilko 06 Nov 2020
In reply to GrahamD:

> Surely you heard about the constipated mathematician who worked it all out with logs ?

That hardly counts. 😋

 Rog Wilko 06 Nov 2020
In reply to GrahamD:

> What about New Mills ? You don't even have to come out from under the bridge to climb.

Very subtle - like it.

 Rob Parsons 06 Nov 2020
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

> >  Wonder if Tim B-L ever wishes he hadn't developed the internet.

> Doubt it, what with him not having developed it.


Very good - have a gold star! But in fact we all understood what Rog Wilko was referring to, namely the world wide web.

Berners-Lee has regularly expressed misgivings about the current state of that - see e.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/11/tim-berners-lee-the-web-is-dysfunctional-wi...

 Blue Straggler 06 Nov 2020
In reply to cb294:

> On the off chance that JC was a real person I was wondering which chop route to recommend for her first outing on grit.

I was hoping to send her to Shining Clough! 

 Rog Wilko 06 Nov 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Any particular route?

 Blue Straggler 06 Nov 2020
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Sadly it’s above the grade she suggested but Trungel Crack.

At Severe I have seen people come a bit undone on Via Principia 

 Tom Valentine 06 Nov 2020
In reply to Blue Straggler:

VP is definitely top end Severe but a brilliant route, better than Atherton Bros, I would say.

 LakesWinter 06 Nov 2020
In reply to Becky E:

> The recently-published Wired guidebook for the Peak District has all the crags in your borrowed Eastern Grit, and also the western grit.  It's a selective guide, but actually has every single route at Windgather in it.  If you only buy one guidebook for the Peak District, let this be it.

I would also recommend the wired guide - it's cheaper than buying Eastern and Western grit and you get to support the definitive BMC guidebook series.

1
 Rog Wilko 06 Nov 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> VP is definitely top end Severe but a brilliant route, better than Atherton Bros, I would say.

Both memorable routes, though over 30 years since I did them. VP is said to have been a shoe-in for Classic Rock but they failed to get any decent photos.

 jaipur 07 Nov 2020
In reply to Julia Climbs: have you considered Harborough in the south of the Peak? Not gritstone admittedly, (it’s Dolomitic limestone), which is typically covered in good holds. The belays tend to be more obvious too (but do check the solidity of some of the large spikes/blocks e.g. at the top of the Trident). You could also try Pleasley Vale over in the east, near Shirebrook . Very sheltered. Both are in the BMC Peak Limestone South guide.

 TobyA 07 Nov 2020
In reply to jaipur:

I haven't got Peak Limestone South, so have only seen the stuff on UKC about Pleasley vale, which made it seem mainly to be bouldering from memory. I cycle through it this summer so it sparked my interest but what are your impressions of the climbing there?

 jaipur 08 Nov 2020
In reply to TobyA: well I’d buy one. A lifetime of evening reading and planning as you improve and aspire.

 Luke90 08 Nov 2020
In reply to TobyA:

Pleasley is definitely worth visiting at least once for the routes, especially as it's far enough from other crags to sometimes catch different weather. I wouldn't go claiming it's a great venue or anything (it's moderately grotty and fairly short limestone) but I think it compares favourably to Harborough. It's certainly less polished, but maybe a little looser. Loose enough that I'd warn beginners to be very careful but not so bad that it should put off someone like you with a bit of experience.

 TobyA 08 Nov 2020
In reply to Luke90:

Cheers Luke, it looked an interesting spot from an industrial history point of view as I cycled through it, so I might go have a look once hopefully the rules ease on traveling.

 Philb1950 09 Nov 2020
In reply to Luke90:

Pleasley is about bouldering and nothing else.

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 Philb1950 09 Nov 2020
In reply to FactorXXX:

If you keep postIng anything not in line with the moderators views, especially criticism of UKC or ROCKFAX, you will be blocked. Strange really, back in the day, before everyone  bowed down to the great, all seeing, all controlling god BMC, climbing was seen as a slightly anarchistic pursuit, with a myriad of opinionated views being perfectly acceptable and debatable. Microcosm of modern life?

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