Annoying climbing terms

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 Misha 23 Nov 2018

This is perhaps irrational but I find some words which have entered the British climbing vocabulary in recent years quite annoying. Typically these are Americanisms which are now being plastered all over social media.  I’ve used these terms myself - for parody. 

Here’s my list - any more to add?

Send and its many variations. I think it’s ok for bouldering but not sport, trad or winter climbing - what’s wrong with onsight or redpoint? Don’t think I’ve seen it used in the context of Alpine or Greater Ranges climbing - yet.

Buddy. Somehow comes across as belittling the climbing partnership.

(Climbing) gym. Fair enough, a climbing or bouldering wall is a training facility in the same way that a gym is but we all know that it’s more than just a gym. It’s a lot more fun for a start.

Grips. Understandable if used by a non-climber but why would any self-respecting climber use this term?

Rad. Not climbing specific but seems to be popular with some climbers.

Sweet. As for rad.

“Mick Fowler and his buddy got a piolet d’or for that rad send of an unclimbed 6,000m peak. Sweet!”

Might be a germ of an article here...

43
 Andy Hardy 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Aren't they letting some very young people join the police these days?

Blanche DuBois 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha

Yawn.  What were you saying?

19
In reply to Misha:

You appear to be a bit late to the party on this one.

 AlanLittle 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Allez bud/bro. We need these Americanised youngsters off our lawns.

"Free" a route when used for anything other than the first free ascent. Lynn Hill freed The Nose. Nobody else did, this or any other week, or ever can.

"Free" soloing for that matter too. Aid & rope soloing are obscure Californian perversions that do not need to be acknowledged in polite society, therefore proper solo climbing does not need to be distinguished from them.

Post edited at 07:37
13
 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to AlanLittle:

> "Free" soloing for that matter too. Aid & rope soloing are obscure Californian perversions that do not need to be acknowledged in polite society, therefore proper solo climbing does not need to be distinguished from them.

I disagree. It depends on the context. If you are in Yosemite, you need to make the distinction, but, if you are at Stanage then probably not. What about an alpine route? As I pointed out in that great thread on what "solo" actually means a while back, it is like the word "hockey" - unqualified, it defaults to two very different games if you are in the UK or in Canada, so needs qualification if you don't mean the default.

 

1
 Trangia 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Biners and Rap stations

Post edited at 08:30
1
 GrahamD 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

"Rap" for "abseil" annoys me for some reason.

"Trad" for "climbing"

1
 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

> (Climbing) gym. Fair enough, a climbing or bouldering wall is a training facility in the same way that a gym is but we all know that it’s more than just a gym. It’s a lot more fun for a start.

Agreed. I HATE it. The only things that should get climbed in a gym are wall bars and big thick ropes.

As for all the other Americanisms, I've no issue with them if used ironically, but, if not, then they are totally unacceptable on this side of the Atlantic.

 

2
In reply to Misha:

 

I often boulder with my son (28) and his mates, and actually find the shouts of ‘Allez’, ‘Send’ and ‘chapeaux’ (in that order) really motivating to get up stuff. 

16
In reply to Misha:

Play them at their own game, invent your own then smugly congratulate yourself when it enters general parlance.

I am trying wolf for dogging the hell out of something.

"Tarquin is over there, wolfing his pipedream project"

I am sure this happens in business with the amount of crap I have to tolerate at work. My latest spine crusher is swim lane.

 Pedro50 23 Nov 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

 

I like rap and biner >ducks<

Trad seems to be necessary it is a subset of the climbing spectrum. 

 Agree with Alan Little, only one person ever freed a particular route

 

2
 McHeath 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

"Dollies". Horrible name for magnificent mountains.

1
 mrphilipoldham 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Send *cringe*

Most of the others I can happily ignore but that one.. it just irks me..

 Mr. Lee 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

'Stoked' comes to mind.

I don't think it's these sort of American slang words that I strictly dislike. It's more how they are so casually and regularly used. There's certain phases that fall into the same bracket. It comes across as a lazy attempt to express anything thoughtful or meaningful by spurting out the same clichéd words and phrases. 

1
 Trangia 23 Nov 2018
In reply to McHeath:

> "Dollies". Horrible name for magnificent mountains.

Ditto "The Gorms"

 ianstevens 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Trangia:

Ditto "Norries"

In reply to Trangia:

> Ditto "The Gorms"

Trumped by "The Norries” yuck.

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Trangia:

> Ditto "The Gorms"

Yes, horrible.

And "The Coe", "The Norries", "The Ben", "The Slig", "Cham" etc.......  It's just lazy.

5
 krikoman 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

You're correct and I despair too.

Send: Something you do at the post office.

Buddy: What apple trees look like in springtime.

Climbing Gym: That weird bloke you should avoid making eye-contact with because he's about to tell you were you're doing it wrong and what moves to make all the way up your route.

Grips: Something you have on the handlebars of your bike.

Rad: Short for radiator, as in "the rad f*cked in my car, we'll have to go in yours"

Sweet: something to tempt children with

5
cb294 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

You must have surely mistyped.

It is bunny.

Belay bunny.

And I like both the term and the concept!

CB

2
Removed User 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

How about 'multi-pitch'. Seems to be used a lot my newbies or SPA wannabies who consider climbing more than one pitch some kind of major transition in climbing style.

8
 jcw 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

and Font.

3
 Jon Read 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

To further foster curmudgeonlyness , I offer 'drop', as in: "I dropped the last move".

No, you didn't. You fell off. Argh!!!!

It's right up there with 'blocs' being used to refer to boulder problems.

2
 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Removed User:

> How about 'multi-pitch'. Seems to be used a lot my newbies or SPA wannabies who consider climbing more than one pitch some kind of major transition in climbing style.

Yes, the way it is made a big deal of is daft, but the term does have a perfectly good meaning. However, what really, really grates with me is its use a noun as in "I climbed my first multi-pitch".

9
 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Jon Read:

> It's right up there with 'blocs' being used to refer to boulder problems.

And I HATE the word "boulder" being used to mean "boulder problem" as in "I climbed a hard boulder" - well, you didn't unless you meant you climbed a lump of rock with no easy way up it.

Also can't stand the suffix "-fest".  Anyone who organises a "blocfest" should be shot.

 

5
 AlanLittle 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

I‘m afraid of pumpfests, but I think it’s a good term

 Ramblin dave 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> And I HATE the word "boulder" being used to mean "boulder problem" as in "I climbed a hard boulder" - well, you didn't unless you meant you climbed a lump of rock with no easy way up it.

> Also can't stand the suffix "-fest".  Anyone who organises a "blocfest" should be shot.

What about a Running Order Squabble Fest?

youtube.com/watch?v=cNUs1rWXpqw&

 Martin W 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I had assumed that "buddy" had made its way across from diving.  Perhaps, though, that was only because I was in to diving before I got in to climbing.  Whether its origin in the argot of the subaquatic pastime is North American, I couldn't say.  (Edit: Oxford Dictionaries seems pretty definite that the word is of North American origin, whatever its context.)

Post edited at 10:20
 charliesdad 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Apart from the sheer silliness of these phrases, there’s also the suspicion that they are being used as a form of oneupmanship...

 tmawer 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

'Great connies'.... Can feel my skin crawl as I type it! 

1
 ianstevens 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Yes, the way it is made a big deal of is daft, but the term does have a perfectly good meaning. However, what really, really grates with me is its use a noun as in "I climbed my first multi-pitch".

I'm not so sold on the hate for this one. Useful in some contexts  - e.g. "It's really cold today, I don't want to climb anything multi-pitch" (although note that "anything" is the noun in this use). 

 Rick Graham 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Get over it Misha, language and slang develops.

When I started climbing 50 years ago, rock over ,sprag, flag , and ring lock were unheard of, except perhaps in  darkest Yorkshire .

It took me a few years to discover the Yorkshire Rest

 Alyson 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I don't think 'rad', 'sweet', 'stoked' or 'buddy' qualify as annoying climbing terms - they are just general language terms! None of them are specific to the terminology of climbing, and if they hail from any particular subculture it's probably surfing (and then via snowboarding).

1
 John2 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin W:

Canadian skiers talk of a 'buddy system' where you regularly check your skiing partner's face for signs of incipient frostbite.

 springfall2008 23 Nov 2018

"I'm going to send that route"

and me

"where to, Spain?"

 

 

1
 ianstevens 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> And I HATE the word "boulder" being used to mean "boulder problem" as in "I climbed a hard boulder" - well, you didn't unless you meant you climbed a lump of rock with no easy way up it.

> Also can't stand the suffix "-fest".  Anyone who organises a "blocfest" should be shot.

Also precludes you from calling this thread a bitchfest/whingefest

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to ianstevens:

> I'm not so sold on the hate for this one. Useful in some contexts  - e.g. "It's really cold today, I don't want to climb anything multi-pitch" (although note that "anything" is the noun in this use). 


Yes, that's fine as an adjective!

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to ianstevens:

> Also precludes you from calling this thread a bitchfest/whingefest

That's fine. It's a festival of bitching/whinging.

 oldie 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I agree with the majority of dislikes already mentioned but, as you say, probably irrationally.
I suppose I just often dislike changes to the terms and styles of climbing from when I started out.
Multi-pitch and trad didn't "exist" as separate entities.
I don't like rap(pel) instead of abseil(I say ab)...although one is thought of as an Americanism both I think derive from different European languages, French and German. If I'd been born earlier I'd probably have preferred the british "roping down".
I use krab, but I don't think I used it at first...probably karabiner in full (I remember some using karabs). An earlier generation would have been aghast that I didn't use snaplinks. If we'd have been more francophile we might have used mouse?
But "send", ugh.

In reply to Robert Durran:

> Yes, the way it is made a big deal of is daft, but the term does have a perfectly good meaning. However, what really, really grates with me is its use a noun as in "I climbed my first multi-pitch".

Perhaps it falls under the laziness category but I'd have thought it is just abbreviation of 'multi-pitch route' which I find excusable and common in language.

 Steve Perry 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

The Buckle for Buachaille Etive Mor, pfft!!

1
 GarethSL 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

"the alpine"

Makes me cringe every time.

1
 kwoods 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Steve Perry:

> The Buckle for Buachaille Etive Mor, pfft!!

Could be worse, could be the Big Buckle.

And speaking of these oddities, 'the Coe' would really make me cringe, but the Fort, the Ben nor the Gorms would bother me.

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Seems like 'send' in particular has been getting more prevalent over the last couple of years. In particular, I don't think 'send' was used as much a couple of years ago. Now it's all over Instagram. Looking at the latest Summit magazine, there's a DMM ad featuring 'sending' on the back page (there was a different one in the last issue as well) and the Christmas offers feature a 'send pack' of bouldering stuff. 

 FactorXXX 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Not seen it used so much recently, but 'Poons' has to be about the most annoying.

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to AlanLittle:

That's a good point. A route can be freed only once but it can be free climbed many times. To be fair, the distinction is subtle so I wouldn't get worked up about it, in fact I probably wouldn't even notice that the wrong term is being used most of the time.

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

If you're soloing in the Alps and use a bit of French free, that's generally par for the course and no one really cares, unless it's a top end 'send'.

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Trangia:

> Biners and Rap stations

Yeah dude! With you, bud!

1
 Ramblin dave 23 Nov 2018
In reply to charliesdad:

> Apart from the sheer silliness of these phrases, there’s also the suspicion that they are being used as a form of oneupmanship...

Although to be fair, I get the same thing with people who complain loudly about them.

"You don't like people saying 'rap'? Yeah, well I'm such a hairy-arsed retrogrouch that I don't even like 'abseil'. What's wrong with 'roping down?'" etc...

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

> I often boulder with my son (28) and his mates, and actually find the shouts of ‘Allez’, ‘Send’ and ‘chapeaux’ (in that order) really motivating to get up stuff. 

La motivation est bien importante mais on peut se motiver sans parler en francais. Sinon, it vaut mieux parler en francais tous le temps!

2
OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Presley Whippet:

Ah, that's another one - crush. Brings to mind images of painful death by rockfall.

 john arran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

> ... the Christmas offers feature a 'send pack' of bouldering stuff. 

Does it come with free delivery?

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to cb294:

I think belay bunny is ok. No idea where it came from but doesn't have negative connotations of a belay slave. 

2
OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to tmawer:

Connies sounds like a British upper middle class, public school term. A bit like brekkie for breakfast.

 Bulls Crack 23 Nov 2018
In reply to tmawer:

> 'Great connies'.... Can feel my skin crawl as I type it! 

Agreed.  Just why?

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to kwoods:

> And speaking of these oddities, 'the Coe' would really make me cringe, but the Fort, the Ben nor the Gorms would bother me.

I think I find "the Coe" the least offensive of those! I'm only more offended by "The Gorms" because I have more affection for the Cairngorms than for Glencoe, so take it more personally. I actually think "The Fort" and "The Ben" are the worst because, as well as being lazy, they imply an awful cliqueiness since they assume we know which fort of ben is being referred to (though "The Ben" has become so universal that it has almost lost its horror - I even, to my shame, have occasionally caught myself using it ).

 

1
 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Yes, the way it is made a big deal of is daft, but the term does have a perfectly good meaning. However, what really, really grates with me is its use a noun as in "I climbed my first multi-pitch".

The fact that I got a load of "dislikes" for that just increases how much I utterly despise those who use it as a noun I'm afraid.

 

8
 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to tmawer:

> 'Great connies'.... Can feel my skin crawl as I type it! 

Yes arguably worse that "in nick". But "nick" as a noun trumps both. And if anyone ever asks, "Is there any nick in The Norries" then they deserve to be avalanched on the Goat Track.

4
 M_Robinson 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Beta, not the word so much, but the American pronunciation of BAY-ta

 Martin Bennett 23 Nov 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

 

> "Trad" for "climbing"

Double triple like from me.

In reply to Misha:

Connie is my mother in law's name. Good Connie's are warm and lovely,far from frosty and always hand me a large cooked breakfast. You don't get that in the Norries.

I recently congratulated myself for wishing my friend well on his climb with The phrase.

"You got the postage dude,send it"

 

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

Nothing wrong with The Ben. Clearly there are hundreds of other Bens, Beinns and so on but it's such a pre-eminent mountain for winter climbing in terms of quantity and popularity of routes as well as history that it seems reasonable to refer to it as THE Ben. True, beginners won't know this but it's not exactly a difficult thing to figure out and pick up.

 Martin Bennett 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Removed User:

> How about 'multi-pitch'. Seems to be used a lot my newbies or SPA wannabies who consider climbing more than one pitch some kind of major transition in climbing style.

Thanks. I'd begun to think it was just me. A conspiracy theorist might suspect the term was invented by the climbing instruction industry to keep 'em paying for more courses.

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to M_Robinson:

Same a route being pronounced ra-oot. I get that Americans pronounce things differently but it's a French word which is spelled and pronounced the same in English. Following normal rules of pronunciation (to the extent there is such a thing!), I can't see how route can be ra-oot. Perhaps it was due to confusion with rout, as in to rout an enemy in a battle.

 Martin Bennett 23 Nov 2018
In reply to jcw:

> and Font.

Yeah. It was "Bleau" to the locals in the 1960s, the only time I went there, and they were "Bleausards". When did that change? Why?

 GridNorth 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I hate "send" as in "sending a route".  I mean I really, really hate it. I hate it so much that I have to consciously  stop myself from hating the person who uses it and comfort myself by just mildly disliking them.  But if they use "dude" in the same sentence you may have to hold me back from imparting physical harm, especially if they are NOT American.  Americans can be forgiven but there is absolutely no excuse for Brits.  "Send it Dude" should be classed as hate speech. In all seriousness I don't think I could partner up with anyone who habitually "sends" routes.

Al

2
 Martin Bennett 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Nails for hard. Dreadful.

6
 Pedro50 23 Nov 2018
In reply to GridNorth:

If you hate "send it dude" you could try "one-time that mother"

 john arran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin Bennett:

> A conspiracy theorist might suspect the term was invented by the climbing instruction industry to keep 'em paying for more courses.

That one would be "bottom-roping"!

 Martin W 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Steve Perry:

> The Buckle for Buachaille Etive Mor, pfft!!

Quite right.,  It should be "The Bookle".

1
 GridNorth 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin Bennett:

It's all just a sign that we are getting old Martin

Al

 Martin Bennett 23 Nov 2018
In reply to GridNorth:

> I hate "send" as in "sending a route".  I mean I really, really hate it. I hate it so much that I have to consciously  stop myself from hating the person who uses it and comfort myself by just mildly disliking them.  But if they use "dude" in the same sentence you may have to hold me back from imparting physical harm, especially if they are NOT American.  Americans can be forgiven but there is absolutely no excuse for Brits.  "Send it Dude" should be classed as hate speech. In all seriousness I don't think I could partner up with anyone who habitually "sends" routes.

Well said Al. I think no self respecting mountaineer would think you've over-stated that in any way. It's abominable. I'd begun to delightedly think it was on the wane but there's a comment above that would seem to depressingly gainsay this view. As for the likes of DMM  using it in their marketing . . . . well . . .  I know it's all about profit but they should be ashamed of themselves.

Your fellow grumpy old man Mart.

ps I love this thread. It's quite cheering me up on a dull cold day when I'm a bit down having just returned  from a climbing trip. It's heartening to know there are so many others upon whom such parlance grates to a high degree.

 

 

1
 Doug 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin Bennett:

> Yeah. It was "Bleau" to the locals in the 1960s, the only time I went there, and they were "Bleausards". When did that change? Why?


Still is 'bleau to the locals

 Martin W 23 Nov 2018
In reply to John2:

> Canadian skiers talk of a 'buddy system' where you regularly check your skiing partner's face for signs of incipient frostbite.

Analogous to the buddy system in diving, where you keep an eye on your dive partner and help them out of trouble should it occur (see "buddy breathing" - though if you look it up on Wikipedia, the "Alternatives" section describes what's generally standard practice these days.).

 ianstevens 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Ok, I've got one:

Anyone using the word "adventure" for anything thoroughly non-adventurous. For example:

"I'm going on an adventure this weekend" means "I'm going on a short trip to North Wales/The Peak/The Lakes/Scotland and might do some easy* walking and climbing"

*I mean it always is right?

1
 GridNorth 23 Nov 2018
In reply to ianstevens:

On a similar theme there are those who go on "expeditions" to North Wales for a couple of days whilst we mere mortals just have weekend climbing.

Al

1
 Martin Bennett 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Doug:

> Still is 'bleau to the locals

I'm gratified to hear it. I've always thought "Font" sounded vaguely disrespectful of the area. It would seem it is. Why should foreign visitors make up their own terms when there's a time honoured local expression? Wouldn't have happened in Victorian times or they'd have invented another name for Sagarmatha. 

Post edited at 13:21
1
 Martin Bennett 23 Nov 2018
In reply to GridNorth:

> On a similar theme there are those who go on "expeditions" to North Wales for a couple of days whilst we mere mortals just have weekend climbing.

> Al

Or trekking up Helvellyn rather than a walk with the dog.

1
 stp 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I can sympathize with finding these annoying. But what's interesting when I've been climbing in the States I've quite enjoyed listening to the American banter. It can be creative, descriptive, funny and even useful. One of my faves was "Dirt Me" or just "Dirt" for short. This means lower me to the ground.

It's worse when certain terms are overused and seems worse when Brits use these expressions. Not sure why that is. Comes across as pretentious perhaps?

This video title (mentioned on another thread) was pretty bad by the two Brits doing Epic TV Climbing Daily vids:

"The Women Crushing The Sick Send Train"

I'd like to think that's a deliberate wind up. Sadly I doubt it was though.

 GridNorth 23 Nov 2018
In reply to stp:

There's another one, when people say something is "sick".  May even be up there with "send". I'm not even sure what it means apart from the obvious original.

"Look at that dude he really sent that route, it's sick man".   I would have to get myself out of earshot if I heard that.  Shakespeare and Shelley must be turning in their graves.

Al

Post edited at 13:30
2
In reply to Robert Durran:

Hence the weekly queries on peak limestone bouldering Facebook as to the connies in Conies Dale

In reply to GridNorth:

> On a similar theme there are those who go on "expeditions" to North Wales for a couple of days whilst we mere mortals just have weekend climbing.

> Al

But isn't the term being used ironically?

 Tim Sparrow 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

What are “poons”? Spiky things I imagine, but an abbreviation for harpoons or crampons?

1
In reply to Misha:

> Seems like 'send' in particular has been getting more prevalent over the last couple of years. In particular, I don't think 'send' was used as much a couple of years ago. Now it's all over Instagram. Looking at the latest Summit magazine, there's a DMM ad featuring 'sending' on the back page (there was a different one in the last issue as well) and the Christmas offers feature a 'send pack' of bouldering stuff. 

True. I seem to recall a tread specifically about 'send' and how horrible a term it was, a few months back. I guess DMM will have an eye on the American market and can you blame them.

 AlanLittle 23 Nov 2018
In reply to GridNorth:

> Shakespeare and Shelley must be turning in their graves.

Do you somehow, bizarrely, imagine Shakespeare used archaic language for his day and didn't coin new terms & usages by the dozen?

 GridNorth 23 Nov 2018
In reply to AlanLittle:

FFS it's just a joke!

 Oogachooga 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Je vous savoir, quel est "chapeaux" en l'anglais ? 

 

google says 'hats'. I dont get it? cheers

Post edited at 14:02
 petestack 23 Nov 2018
In reply to kwoods:

> And speaking of these oddities, 'the Coe' would really make me cringe, but the Fort, the Ben nor the Gorms would bother me.

The Fort is fine. That's what it is (An Gearasdan) and what locals call it. But 'Fort Bill' is a hellish abomination!

 

1
 Fredt 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

In no particular order, I abhor:

'Sport' -it lends legitimacy to cheating. 

any word ending in 'point'

"Send"

"Way to go!"

'Ground up' (what other f*cking way is there?)

 

Buddy is OK, used in diving, caving to remind you to watch out for each other.

 

8
 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to petestack:

> The Fort is fine. That's what it is (An Gearasdan) and what locals call it.

It might be fine for locals, but  someone living, say, on the shores of Loch Ness, might have no idea if Fort William or Fort Augustus or Fort George was meant. Let alone some poor benighted non climber from Surrey.....

But 'Fort Bill' is a hellish abomination!

We certainly agree there,

 

1
 Ramblin dave 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I think I find "the Coe" the least offensive of those!

But "the Coe" is the only one that doesn't have the excuse of saving you a syllable - it's an abbreviation that's just as long as the thing it's abbreviating!

2
 Andy Long 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Pedro50:

 

> Trad seems to be necessary it is a subset of the climbing spectrum. 

 

No it isn't. It's the parent activity from which all others are derived. I agree it needs to be distinguished from its babies but there must be better words that reflect its status.

3
In reply to Robert Durran:

Fort Bill is an amusing, affectionate nickname that's been around for aeons. 

2
 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Doug:

> Still is 'bleau to the locals.

I've heard awful cliquey bouldering types just talk about "The Forest".........

In reply to Ramblin dave:

> But "the Coe" is the only one that doesn't have the excuse of saving you a syllable - it's an abbreviation that's just as long as the thing it's abbreviating!

'The Coe' is actually a lot easier and faster to say.

2
 Ramblin dave 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Andy Long:

> No it isn't. It's the parent activity from which all others are derived. I agree it needs to be distinguished from its babies but there must be better words that reflect its status.

Pfft. It's all just training for the Greater Ranges.

In reply to GridNorth:

I thought you must be, myself, but this is the internet!

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> 'The Coe' is actually a lot easier and faster to say.

Just like it's sometimes a lot easier and faster to pull on the gear.........

In reply to Andy Long:

> No it isn't. It's the parent activity from which all others are derived. I agree it needs to be distinguished from its babies but there must be better words that reflect its status.

Classical?

 

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to GridNorth:

Dude, I’m with you on that. Sending is just not rad and doesn’t get me psyched.

1
OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Oogachooga:

As in hats off to you, well done dude. 

Post edited at 14:27
 Offwidth 23 Nov 2018
In reply to AlanLittle:

Agreed. Shakespeare was at the very human front of language change, with many new words and forms, slang and endless puns including enough sexual references to fill a book (see below) he was as far as you could be from a prissy hidebound language conservative.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shakespeares-Bawdy-Routledge-Classics-Partridge/dp...

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Offwidth:

Yeah but what did he ever send on grit?

 Neil Williams 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

With you on "send".  I'm not getting the drill out, taking all the holds off and shoving them in the post.

 ianstevens 23 Nov 2018
In reply to stp:

> I can sympathize with finding these annoying. But what's interesting when I've been climbing in the States I've quite enjoyed listening to the American banter. It can be creative, descriptive, funny and even useful. One of my faves was "Dirt Me" or just "Dirt" for short. This means lower me to the ground.

> It's worse when certain terms are overused and seems worse when Brits use these expressions. Not sure why that is. Comes across as pretentious perhaps?

> This video title (mentioned on another thread) was pretty bad by the two Brits doing Epic TV Climbing Daily vids:

> "The Women Crushing The Sick Send Train"

> I'd like to think that's a deliberate wind up. Sadly I doubt it was though.

These terms can start as a bit of a wind up/joke and then become ingrained sadly. I myself have recently been extolling the virtues of "great connies". Whoops.

 ianstevens 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Oogachooga:

> Je vous savoir, quel est "chapeaux" en l'anglais ? 

> google says 'hats'. I dont get it? cheers

Nicked from cycling, and short for "A tip of the hat to you" - i.e. a term of respect for doing something hard.

 

 cragtyke 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned "The Peaks" yet.

 

1
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Just like it's sometimes a lot easier and faster to pull on the gear.........

I wouldn't know, Robert, because I've never done that........

 Martin Bennett 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Andy Long:

> No it isn't. It's the parent activity from which all others are derived. I agree it needs to be distinguished from its babies but there must be better words that reflect its status.

Just "climbing". It's the other genres that need an adjective to identify their derivative sub-set status. as, for instance: sport climbing, indoor climbing, competition climbing

1
 elliott92 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

Dude. You're miserable. I'll never forget climbing my first multi pitch. It was a bigger tick than losing my V plates 

 FactorXXX 23 Nov 2018
In reply to ianstevens:

> Ok, I've got one:

> Anyone using the word "adventure" for anything thoroughly non-adventurous. For example:
> "I'm going on an adventure this weekend"

Isn't that what John Allen Chau said?

 

 kwoods 23 Nov 2018
In reply to petestack:

> The Fort is fine. That's what it is (An Gearasdan) and what locals call it. But 'Fort Bill' is a hellish abomination!

Since you mention it, I would much rather see An Gearasdan. And don't get me started on Cille Chumein. But the Fort will do. Suas leis a Ghàidhlig.

1
 Ciro 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin Bennett:

> Yeah. It was "Bleau" to the locals in the 1960s, the only time I went there, and they were "Bleausards". When did that change? Why?

It didn't.

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Of course the one that really, really irritates me is still "athlete".

1
In reply to Robert Durran:

I'll have to confess, Robert, that I really rather liked it when my peers called me a 'rock athlete' ... Actually, now that I think about it, in all honesty I don't think anybody ever did.

 McHeath 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Andy Long:

> No it isn't. It's the parent activity from which all others are derived. I agree it needs to be distinguished from its babies but there must be better words that reflect its status.

There are!:

RadTrad: everybody's first gritstone VS lead

SadTrad: a chipped Route

CadTrad: copyright @ John Redhead

PadTrad: the Etive Slabs

DadTrad: anything protected solely with hexes, moacs, and slings over spikes in between the heathery ledges

LadTrad: the Rugby Club's annual trip to North Wales

... and so on ...

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to elliott92:

>  It was a bigger tick than losing my V plates.

Is that some wanky bouldering term?

 

 tmawer 23 Nov 2018
In reply to ianstevens:

We have a local instructor who puts 'on expedition' on the sheet outside the wall when he's not free to teach the children's class in summer, and 'competition' in the winter. Seems slightly pretentious to me. 

 steveb2006 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Psyched, awesome etc etc

 tehmarks 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Send is annoying - but Nick Bullock puts it to great use in Tides. Possiby the single funniest paragraph I've ever read in a mountaineering book, and I don't think it'd quite by the same without that word.

 TobyA 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I sort of think everyone is being rather uptight and prissy about this, but then I do still find younger (and indeed not-so young) American climbers putting "super" in front of everything quite tiresome. Honnold does it for instance. So perhaps I'm not immune.

There are phrases that come up regularly on UKC that aren't really climbing phrase but annoy me when I see them and I consciously would never write myself. "Run hot" is one, as in "I'm looking for a really breathable soft shell because I run hot". Not sure why, but ughhhhh. And "pull the trigger", as in "I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on a pair of the new model of Nomics". Surely just "buying" is easier to say, type and just clearer in meaning? Let's leave pulling the trigger to highly trained firearms officers.

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to TobyA:

> There are phrases that come up regularly on UKC that aren't really climbing phrase but annoy me when I see them and I consciously would never write myself. "Run hot" is one, as in "I'm looking for a really breathable soft shell because I run hot". 

That one really annoys me too.

Another one I hate is when someone says "these shoes climb well". No they don't! Horrible stuff.

 

 

 john arran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

I bet you hate 'climbing shop' and 'walking poles' too.

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin Bennett:

> Just "climbing". It's the other genres that need an adjective to identify their derivative sub-set status. as, for instance: sport climbing, indoor climbing, competition climbing

The earliest type of climbing in the modern sense (as opposed to people climbing cliffs to collect bird eggs etc) was Alpine climbing, so strictly speaking what we know as trad climbing, i.e. leader protected rock climbing in a non-Alpine context, wasn't actually the parent activity. I also think it would be both confusing and demeaning to other forms of climbing to refer to trad as 'climbing'.

'Climbing' is a generic term which can refer to any type of climbing. Often the type of climbing being referred to will be obvious from the context but this isn't always the case.

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Of course the one that really, really irritates me is still "athlete".

May be that's Big Ron's fault... Yes, brands referring to people who to you and me are 'just' climbers as athletes is irritating. I can see why they do it for a whole host of reasons and I don't deny that top level climbers are athletes in many way but it goes against the amateur and somewhat anarchic nature of climbing (for the same reasons but to a lesser extent, I don't like referring to climbing as a sport - rather, it's an activity, hobby or passion, though sport is probably the most accurate and conventional term to use). 

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to McHeath:

Excellent!

BadTrad: when you fall off

GaadTrad: hard water ice route

MadTrad: Gogarth

QuadTrad: a route on a crag with a big walk in

WadTrad: high E grade route

not to be confused with:

'ArdTrad: Brown and Whillans route

and

LardTrad: a route to do when you can no longer do ArdTrad

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to tehmarks:

Could you remind me which chapter that's in? There are many hilarious sections!

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Just saw this photo caption on Facebook: [well known climber] bathing his forearms [in the sea] after sending some gnar!

That came over from skiing or boarding I think - shredding the gnar. Fair enough, ski and board dudes are rad like that. Seems to now be a term for hard climbing.

By the way, what's the female version or equivalent term for dude? Or is everyone a dude, in the same way that 'guys' is now used for mixed and even all female groups? A female friend of mine thinks that using 'dude' or 'guys' for women is egalitarian rather than reflecting underlying sexism. Discuss...

 tehmarks 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I can't remember which chapter exactly - the end of the one about the new second pitch to a route, climbing with some American climbing star at the BMC Winter Meet.

 allanscott 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin W:

Should it? Really? Doubt it

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to john arran:

> I bet you hate 'climbing shop' and 'walking poles' too.

No they are fine. Why shouldn't I like them?

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to tehmarks:

Ah yes, thanks. 

Bayard looked up. ‘Go on, send it, dude!’ But the only thing I was going to be sending, if I blew this, was for a helicopter. 

In reply to Misha:

Radtrad when you make a double sick send of the rowte and celebrate by whooping, fist bumps and high fives with your psymed buddies.

 john arran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

Well if it isn't the shoes that climb then neither is it the shop that climbs, nor indeed the poles that walk.

I can't believe I had to explain that one!

1
In reply to Misha:

Sweet Jesus,I just read another one in a post title.

Sleeping System.

 FreeHeelSki 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I've used the terms "The Coe", "The Ben", "Fort Bill" etc for years and had no idea that they got the goat of some many folk...so the those who've overheard me say such things and listened through gritted teeth, sincere apologies.  But I won't stop using them.  

"Belay Bunny" is an unusual one.  It sounds like a Category in an, er...adult site.  I've been told.

Don't worry fellow UKC-ers, being totally selfless, I'll take it on myself to do the appropriate research for all our sakes, and report back.  

Right, I'll open up another tab on my Safari and have a look.  I may be some time...

 

  

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> Sweet Jesus,I just read another one in a post title.

> Sleeping System.

I noticed that too. Horrific. Possibly worse than Hydration System.

 Robert Durran 23 Nov 2018
In reply to john arran:

> Well if it isn't the shoes that climb then neither is it the shop that climbs, nor indeed the poles that walk.

> I can't believe I had to explain that one!

"Climbs" is a verb in "these shoes climb well". "Climbing" is a noun in "Climbing shop".

I can't believe I had to explain that one.

OP Misha 23 Nov 2018
In reply to FreeHeelSki and Presley Whippet:

After my send my belay bunny got her sick new copulation system on the go, so rad!

 

 robw007 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

‘Dropping’ a problem,move or route.  As in ‘thought I’d got it wired but dropped the last move’

You fell off mate - get over it!

Wiley Coyote2 24 Nov 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

> "Rap" for "abseil" annoys me for some reason.

Why is a French word any worse than a German one?

 

 McHeath 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Yeah!

And then we've got

AdTrad: the latest E10 on the back cover of the climbing magazine

CladTrad: the opposite of naked sport climbing

and

JihadTrad: You don't send this, you get sent. Mainly found on crags in the vicinity of military camps in Afghanistan.

Post edited at 00:25
Wiley Coyote2 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

> I think belay bunny is ok. No idea where it came from but doesn't have negative connotations of a belay slave. 


Perhaps only in the negative to tell someone  they are hogging leads or picking routes to suit themselves, as in "Screw you. I'm doing this route now cos I'm not you f**king belay bunny, you know"

Blanche DuBois 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Wiley Coyote2:

> Why is a French word any worse than a German one?

Because UKC's (many) "Little Englanders" dislike the French even more than the Germans (admittedly not as much as they hate "yanks")? 

Wonder how many on here spouting the hate immerse themselves in the local culture and adopt the local parlance whilst on their climbing vacations abroad (hint the answer is "almost none").

Still, in my experience, Brits abroad get the piss taken out of them just as much as you lot seem to enjoy taking the piss out of "foreign sounding johnnies" - it's just that your language skills are so poor that you don't realize it.  So it's all good.

[Yes I know, I spelt "realise" with a "z" - the horror!]

 

In reply to Blanche DuBois:

As far as I’m aware, Oxford English uses -ize as the traditional English and -ise is a later derivation, not an Americanism as often assumed. 

 Robert Durran 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Wiley Coyote2:

> Why is a French word any worse than a German one?

Because Americans use it.

My late uncle refused to have anything to do with this foreign nonsense and stuck with "rope down" like Whymper.

Post edited at 08:02
 John2 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

'"Climbing" is a noun in "Climbing shop"'

To be boringly pedantic, "climbing" is a noun adjunct in "climbing shop"'.

 Robert Durran 24 Nov 2018
In reply to John2:

> '"Climbing" is a noun in "Climbing shop"'

> To be boringly pedantic, "climbing" is a noun adjunct in "climbing shop"'.

Thank you for explaining that one; I knew it was something like that really......

In reply to robw007:

I’m guilty of using this phrase, so will defend it: dropping a move is more specific in its description than ‘falling off’.

’Dropping’ to me describes going for a hard/ significant move where I felt a good chance it was going to happen but it didn’t due to poor accuracy/ timing rather than it being too hard/tricky

see also ‘fluffed the move’: could have done it, should have done it, fell off slightly pathetically 

see also ‘shut down on that move’: fell off repeatedly because i’m rubbish

 

 Jim Lancs 24 Nov 2018

Adding 'wild' to activities such as wild camping or wild swimming. They're just camping and swimming. 

Animals can be wild, so can parties and nights out. But the rest is just hype.

And talking of hype, putting 'Great North' in front of something doesn't make it worth a lot of money. A swim from the Low Wood Hotel in Windermere along side the road to Ambleside is not THE Great North Swim. It's not even a good north swim. At best it's mediocre, and the only thing that's great about it is as a money making scam.

1
 petestack 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

> Fort Bill is an amusing, affectionate nickname that's been around for aeons.

Fine if you want to commemorate either William of Orange or Butcher Cumberland with affection. I don't.

In reply to Jim Lancs:

See also wild camping, used by those with camper vans trying to avoid site fees.

You are not wild camping you are sleeping in a layby and leaving your crap, often literally in a hedge. If you had a certain accent the authorities would be straight round to move you on.

How about rebranding Appleby Horse Fair.

"The Great Wild Camp"

Post edited at 09:35
2
 tk 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I understand “send” to be a modern interpretation of ‘scend - a contraction of ascend. Seen from this perspective I find “send" to be an interesting use of a historical climbing term.

“Sent” however should be ‘scended - which is of course weird!

In reply to Misha: anyone describing a sought after summit  (usually Everest) as "real estate" arrrgh! 

 

In reply to petestack:

> Fine if you want to commemorate either William of Orange or Butcher Cumberland with affection. I don't.

Certainly not. It's a pity Fort William is stuck with its name. I've only ever heard climbers use the expression 'Fort Bill' as one of affectionate familiarity for the place. Perhaps it's even a way of minimising the connection with either of those Williams.

 

 Groundhog 24 Nov 2018
In reply to tk:

I'm glad someone has mentioned that. I've read the entire thread looking for an explanation.

On the wall recently I heard a leader shout "take" Unfortunately his mate didn't understand it and he ended up half way down the wall.

I don't see why you can't just say "take in" which is bloody obvious.

 Robert Durran 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> See also wild camping, used by those with camper vans trying to avoid site fees.

> You are not wild camping you are sleeping in a layby and leaving your crap, often literally in a hedge. If you had a certain accent the authorities would be straight round to move you on.

I disagree. I have always used term Wild Camping to differentiate roadside camping to avoid paying to share facilities I don't need with people I don't know from using campsites. Unfortunately the term has been hijacked by a cosseted generation to make something absolutely normal sound a bit rad. Carrying your tent and putting it up wherever is just plain Camping.

Likewise Wild Swimming. It's the "multipitch" generation.......

In reply to Robert Durran:

Care to sell me some pegs,or perhaps some lucky heather?????

1
 Martin Bennett 24 Nov 2018
In reply to tk:

> I understand “send” to be a modern interpretation of ‘scend - a contraction of ascend. Seen from this perspective I find “send" to be an interesting use of a historical climbing term.

I don't think so. I understand it to be synonymous with dispatch in that word's definition as "deal with efficiently" thus send it = dispatch it, which makes perfect sense.

I should point out that notwithstanding this justification of the term I still hate it.

 

 tk 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin Bennett:

> I don't think so. I understand it to be synonymous with dispatch in that word's definition as "deal with efficiently" thus send it = dispatch it, which makes perfect sense.

Language evolves; words can take on new meanings. “Send", which probably has its roots in ascend (via ‘scend), could mean “to dispatch" to the modern climber. 

 Alkis 24 Nov 2018

#tradisrad

 

 

 

<runs/>

 Martin Bennett 24 Nov 2018
In reply to tk:

> Language evolves; words can take on new meanings. “Send", which probably has its roots in ascend (via ‘scend), could mean “to dispatch" to the modern climber. 

I think you've got it back to front. Nothing whatsoever to do with ascend. I reckon when the word was first uttered in a climbing context the (probably American) speaker was cryptically confusing dispatch (deal with) with dispatch (deliver) and using the synonym send. Clever and amusing.

If only it hadn't caught on.

OP Misha 24 Nov 2018
In reply to McHeath:

CladTrad is surely the opposite of NadTrad. 

OP Misha 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

I think most people use wild camping to refer to camping in the wild, eg below a mountain crag. Organised camping in a campsite is just camping. Whereas putting a tent up by the road is dossing. 

 john arran 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin Bennett:

> I think you've got it back to front. Nothing whatsoever to do with ascend. I reckon when the word was first uttered in a climbing context the (probably American) speaker was cryptically confusing dispatch (deal with) with dispatch (deliver) and using the synonym send. Clever and amusing.

Spot on. News reports in climbing mags would often describe a hard ascent as having been 'dispatched' if it was done with relative ease. The introduction of 'sent' was a direct synonym brought in by Americans sometime I believe in the early 80s or thereabouts. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the word 'ascent', despite being a near homonym.

 

 McHeath 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Perfect.

Steve Bancroft describes somewhere how he soloed Quietus naked directly after his first lead of it, just to celebrate. I'd call that RadNadTrad! 

 Fakey Rocks 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Buddy...The BMC might be partly to blame with those posters encouraging us to do buddy checks before setting off.

Isnt't bud' quite often used in Wales in place of pal / mate etc.. ?

DMM even named one of their devices  the Buddy, for assisting with top-rope soloing / ascending type stuff.

Post edited at 14:10
 mark s 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

peaks instead of Peak

Bloc

send

allez

OP Misha 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

One from another thread just now. Sports climbing. Different to the others on this thread in that it’s not a neologism, it’s just plain wrong. 

 Robert Durran 24 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

> I think most people use wild camping to refer to camping in the wild, eg below a mountain crag.

I know. And I HATE it. Really HATE it.

> Organised camping in a campsite is just camping.

Yes the default for the word has been dumbed down by a generation of people for whom proper camping is some sort of wild adventure apparently.

> Whereas putting a tent up by the road is dossing. 

To me, dossing can't be in a tent.

 

1
In reply to Misha:

May I please add "bluebird" when used to describe the weather.That one really boils my piss.

It has taken the shine off a couple of perfect winter days, returning to base to hear some twit describe the day as bluebird.

And while I am on, I cannot type twit into my phone without it being auto corrected to Twitter.

Arghh.

1
Wiley Coyote2 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Presley Whippet:

 

> And while I am on, I cannot type twit into my phone without it being auto corrected to Twitter.

When I type 'bloody' into mine predictive text immediately offers 'autocorrect' as the next word

 

In reply to Wiley Coyote2:

I share your pain

 Martin Hore 25 Nov 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

> "Rap" for "abseil" annoys me for some reason.

That's interesting. Surely neither "rap" nor "abseil" are English or American?

Martin

 

removed user 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Presley Whippet:

> May I please add "bluebird" when used to describe the weather.That one really boils my piss.

> It has taken the shine off a couple of perfect winter days, returning to base to hear some twit describe the day as bluebird.

> And while I am on, I cannot type twit into my phone without it being auto corrected to Twitter.

> Arghh.

Are there other shorthands for a 100% cloudless day with perfect visability? 

 leland stamper 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Jim Lancs:

Adding 'wild' to activities such as wild camping or wild swimming. They're just camping and swimming. 

Given camping seems to include living in a mobile home for a few hours beside a communal swimming pool with restaurant, I'd suggest that living in a small tent whilst cooking on a wood fire without access to a toilet block is significantly different to warrant distinguishing the two.

Yours,

Wild Campsite owner

 

In reply to removed user:

Blue sky?

OP Misha 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Another one from a (pisstake) message from a friend just now. 

Man, totally got that rig sent!

Someone I know describes big icefalls as big rigs. For some reason, that seems ok even though it shouldn’t...

 TobyA 25 Nov 2018
In reply to leland stamper:

> Yours,

> Wild Campsite owner

Do you mean that as a freeborn Englishperson (other genders and home nations are available) that you feel you have the god given right to camp where you want? Or do you mean you own a campsite?

To me a "wild campsite owner" is a category error.

 

 Wayne S 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

I suspect the issue is mine, but the following irritate me a touch:

Pieces rather than gear.

Tradding....as in one is going Tradding, I heard this at a crag once and had to bite my tongue.

To “DO” something, as in....we are going to do Stanage, or we did Stanage this weekend.  Not sure what I don’t like about this .  Maybe it’s just seems like disrespectful trophy collecting?

Sick, rad, awsome, send and most of the many Americanisms already mentioned.

But perhaps my number one is the use of super in front of just about everything.

like ”I am super motivated by the super difficult line”.

 

 Robert Durran 25 Nov 2018
In reply to leland stamper:

> Given camping seems to include living in a mobile home for a few hours beside a communal swimming pool with restaurant.

That, or indeed any commercial campsite barely counts as "camping" really. I just call it "going to a campsite".

 

 

 Robert Durran 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Track.

When you make a set of footprints in the snow that others might follow, you are making a "trail", NOT a "track. A track is something you might drive a Landrover or whatever along. I presume the use of "track" is another creeping Americanism to differentiate from what they call a "trail" but is properly called a "path" in this country.

And while on this, I can't stand the proliferation of "Trails". If such hideous semi-commercial nonsense such as the "Cape Wrath Trail" or "The Skye Trail" (which I was recently horrified to find existed) really have to be promoted (which they don't), they should, in this country be called the traditional "Way".

2
 petestack 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> When you make a set of footprints in the snow that others might follow, you are making a "trail", NOT a "track.

You might be breaking the trail but leaving a track...

In reply to Wayne S:

> Pieces rather than gear.

Can be handy, e.g. 'that's a good piece there' (three syllables rather than one).

 

Post edited at 20:30
 Tom Last 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Sweet Rig

 

Aaaargh

 leland stamper 25 Nov 2018
In reply to TobyA:

Point taken. I'll leave it there otherwise it'll sound like advertising.

 Robert Durran 25 Nov 2018
In reply to petestack:

> You might be breaking the trail but leaving a track...

No, you are breaking the trail and then leaving it. Obviously.

 petestack 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

You've heard of animal tracks? We're ultimately just another species.

 Robert Durran 25 Nov 2018
In reply to petestack:

> You've heard of animal tracks? We're ultimately just another species.


Animal tracks refers to the actual footprints. A trail is the sum of the tracks. There is a subtle differerence.

1
 TobyA 25 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

I'm not convinced you're actually right on this one, but even if you are, does it really matter? What happens if a long distance path also includes sections of bridleway which are wider than a normal path? Surely just calling the over all thing a "trail" is simple and clear. I recently walked a bit in North Wales with a Belgium bloke called Pierre who was completely in love with Scotland and was a raving about the Cape Wrath Trail. It definitely seems to be bringing people into those rather remote villages, regardless of what it's called.

 Robert Durran 25 Nov 2018
In reply to TobyA:

As far as I can see, both the Cape Wrath Trail and The Skye Trail were invented by someone to sell a guidebook they wrote to them. It is this commercial raison d'etre which I dislike. I'm not, in principle, against encouraging visitors to these areas (although there very obvious problems on Skye, and I believe, issues with over exposure of bothies on the Cape Wrath route). I just wish people would spread themselves out on their own initiative rather than allow themselves to be herded like sheep by these guides and by trip advisor.

1
 kwoods 26 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> And while on this, I can't stand the proliferation of "Trails". If such hideous semi-commercial nonsense such as the "Cape Wrath Trail" or "The Skye Trail" (which I was recently horrified to find existed)

I'm really not that worked up about these things normally, but I recall the first time I saw the GORE-TEX® Scottish National Trail on a book, cringed and a little bit of me died inside.

Sort-of related, I think the NC500 is a bit of a shame, not for the concept itself, but that its success seems to mean it is driving folk up the wall up there.

Post edited at 00:57
Removed User 26 Nov 2018
In reply to leland stamper:

"Trailer" used by North Americans to mean a caravan - you can go "camping" in your "trailer" without a tent being involved. Hmm.

In reply to Misha:

> Seems like 'send' in particular has been getting more prevalent over the last couple of years. In particular, I don't think 'send' was used as much a couple of years ago. Now it's all over Instagram. Looking at the latest Summit magazine, there's a DMM ad featuring 'sending' on the back page (there was a different one in the last issue as well) and the Christmas offers feature a 'send pack' of bouldering stuff. 

Went to Reel Rock on Friday and it's fair to say it was a 'SendFest' !

 Robert Durran 26 Nov 2018
In reply to kwoods:

> I'm really not that worked up about these things normally, but I recall the first time I saw the GORE-TEX® Scottish National Trail on a book, cringed and a little bit of me died inside.

That really is horrific. A bit of me has just died too.

> Sort-of related, I think the NC500 is a bit of a shame, not for the concept itself, but that its success seems to mean it is driving folk up the wall up there.

It is difficult to argue against the economic benefits (the bloke in the petrol station at Kinlochewe this summer told me it was a lifeline which had doubled takings), but I absolutely HATE the concept of it and the fact that every passing place by day and every layby by night is now clogged up with hideous monstrosities of camper vans.

And don't get me started on the f*cking Fairy Pools..........

 

1
J1234 26 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

Approach Shoes.

 

3
In reply to J1234:

> Approach Shoes.

You need these because you are a climber and therefore above such mundane activities as walking. Climber's don't walk, they approach (and are daft enough to buy an additional pair of shoes to do so in).

2
 BrendanO 26 Nov 2018
In reply to J1234:

> Approach Shoes.

Yeah. I never wear them for the approach (use Magnums or DM Shack boots - described lsughingly by friends as my "summer boots" or German Paratroop boots from Army surplus which have incredible grip wet or dry).

 

I do wear approach shoes when working in climbing walls cos it's part of the theatre of looking like a climbing instructor. But they'll be secondhand, or heftily reduced. 

 

 

1
 TobyA 26 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> but I absolutely HATE the concept of it and the fact that every passing place by day and every layby by night is now clogged up with hideous monstrosities of camper vans.

Whilst your car taking you off walking or climbing (on your own sometimes?) doesn't have any social costs? Why do you have the right to travel around Scotland for your pleasure but other people don't?

2
 DWS gibraltar 26 Nov 2018
In reply to GridNorth:

I Always prefer cimbing people who Habitually send routes ????

 Robert Durran 26 Nov 2018
In reply to TobyA:

> Whilst your car taking you off walking or climbing (on your own sometimes?) doesn't have any social costs?

My car is small, green and filthy, not a big shiny white thing the size of a small bus
But yes, you have a point. The trouble is that more people are now having a devalued experience rather than fewer people having a better experience. I don't want to stop anyone going, but I'd rather not encourage them with things like the Cape Wrath Trail and the NC500.

> Why do you have the right to travel around Scotland for your pleasure but other people don't?

I have no more right than anyone else; I just wish fewer people chose to exercise that right.

 

 

1
 Robert Durran 26 Nov 2018
In reply to J1234:

> Approach Shoes.

I'll up you Trail Shoes

 Max factor 26 Nov 2018
In reply to J1234:

> Approach Shoes.

Yes. Why aren't they ever marketed as Retreat shoes?

 GrahamD 26 Nov 2018
In reply to Martin Hore:

> That's interesting. Surely neither "rap" nor "abseil" are English or American?

Its true, its not a rational dislike but rap just sounds as though someone is trying to be trendy.  To me its always an ab in or ab off.

Wiley Coyote2 26 Nov 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

> Its true, its not a rational dislike but rap just sounds as though someone is trying to be trendy.  To me its always an ab in or ab off.


That made me think. I always rap in on my ab rope (true!)

In reply to Misha:

Youth, as in Eh Up Youth! Thankfully this is heard less often these days. But there was a time when every self respecting Oxford educated public schoolboy from Buckinghamshire would announce their arrival at the crag with these words in a pathetic attempt to inject some working class Yorkshire street cred into their otherwise plummy tones. Puke!

 

1
 mike123 26 Nov 2018
In reply to colin struthers: and what, my good man , may I ask, is one to say to ones fellow chaps , if one grew up in the East Midlands , where to greet ones chums any another way would be seen as getting ideas above ones station ? 

<please take this in the good natured spirt that it is intended, but I called my brother yesterday and that's how he greeted me , because that's how people talk and if he greeted me any other way I would be very suprised , which makes me realise that most of the time people aren't using all of the above "piss boilers " for any other reason that that's how they talk and not to show off >

 

 

 leland stamper 26 Nov 2018
In reply to Removed User:

Not to sure what you mean, but I tend to think of camping as using a tent on the ground. Trailers, caravans, camper vans, mobile homes, land rovers with tents on top don't really count as camping as far as I am concerned.

 Wayne S 26 Nov 2018
In reply to petestack:

I can’t disagree, but why does it become so bloody annoying once made plural by yanks?  That piece is a bit dodgy(OK), opposed to gee man all my pieces were super sketchy?(Grrrrrrr!)  

 doz 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

With the greatest respect, sounds like an awful lot winds you up.....have you considered taking up a different hobby?

Knitting has nice gentle terminology....

Post edited at 08:22
In reply to mike123:

I used to climb with the Nottingham Climbing Club, and heading out to the Peak, pick up Terry Bolger. The greeting from Terry was always the same ‘now then youth, where are we going?’. The answer, just like in the guidebook was always ‘Stanage youth’.

 Robert Durran 27 Nov 2018
In reply to doz:

> With the greatest respect, sounds like an awful lot winds you up.....have you considered taking up a different hobby?

 Climbing is NOT a "hobby".  You make it sound like stamp collecting or whatever. Arguably worse than "sport". FFS.............

2
 AlanLittle 27 Nov 2018
In reply to mike123:

> if one grew up in the East Midlands ,

Despite growing up in Leicester I don’t think I‘ve ever actually addressed anybody as „me duck“

Perhaps I should start

Post edited at 09:08
 Grahame N 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

'Flash pump'. Excuse my ignorance but whats the difference between a flash pump and an ordinary pump?

'Send' is undoubtedly the most annoying climbing term.

2
 AlanLittle 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Grahame N:

„Flash pump“ is actually a useful & meaningful term, referring to a sudden & premature pump that comes from trying too hard too soon before you’re properly warmed up.

Can bugger up your whole evening at the climbing gym - oops, wall - if you’re not careful 

 doz 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

>  Climbing is NOT a "hobby".  You make it sound like stamp collecting or whatever. Arguably worse than "sport". FFS.............

Well I hate to be pedantic, but as defined by the OED a hobby is "an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure"

If you are a professional (instructor, egg collector, Spiderman....) please accept my apologies.

Otherwise this would imply you either climb out-with your leisure time in which case you should maybe examine your conscience/speak to your employer

or that you find no pleasure in the activity..hence the knitting suggestion

Happy to be of help!

 

 

Post edited at 09:30
1
 Robert Durran 27 Nov 2018
In reply to doz:

> Well I hate to be pedantic, but as defined by the OED a hobby is "an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure"

Yes, so climbing is much more than a hobby.

 

 John2 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

What exactly is it, o enlightened one?

 yoshi.h 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

lmao this thread is so lame

1
 Robert Durran 27 Nov 2018
In reply to John2:

> What exactly is it, o enlightened one?

That is a genuinely interesting question. I'm not sure one word suffices for what climbing is, at least to me (and, I am sure, others). To say it is a "way of life" just sounds clichéd and trite, but if a hobby is just "an activity done in leisure time, I think that simply doesn't do justice to the way it has pervaded my life. I'll have a think about it.........

 John2 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

Surely it's different things to different people? When I was working, a large part of its appeal was as a way of blotting out the appalling events of the week at the weekend. I have to say, there are those for whom from my point of view it's an obsession.

 john arran 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

The word you're looking for may be 'obsession'.

 doz 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> it has pervaded my life.

Most folk who like their hobbies would say the same

Still a hobby though

Post edited at 11:45
OP Misha 27 Nov 2018
In reply to yoshi.h:

> lmao this thread is so lame

Yeah it’s just not rad. 

2
 yoshi.h 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Misha:

No. No it's just lame.

 GridNorth 27 Nov 2018
In reply to doz:

I've been climbing in all it's forms regularly and consistently for 55 years.  I think that is a fair claim to obsession rather than hobby. I have also, more recently, taken up air rifle target shooting.  I'm keen, I want to get better but it is in no way the same as climbing for me, it's most definitely just a hobby in comparison.

Al

 GrahamD 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Yes, so climbing is much more than a hobby.

Heaven forbid, not a "lifestyle" ?

 Andy Moles 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I'm not sure one word suffices for what climbing is...I'll have a think about it.........

Perhaps it's best regarded as a form of microgapping?

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/gye7qj/introducing-microgapping-the-best...

 

 John2 27 Nov 2018
In reply to Andy Moles:

If forced to use one word, I'd go for 'interest'.

 mike123 27 Nov 2018
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:  despite not having lived in the midlands for over 30 years and very rarely saying "ay up" unless talking to family , I  still say " now then " most days .until 5 mins ago I'd never really pondered the fact that it's essentially meaningless .

edit : as a way of greeting somebody 

Post edited at 17:35
 mike123 27 Nov 2018
In reply to AlanLittle: again , I d very very suprised to go back to my home town or talk to close family and  not be addressed as " me duck " or hailed " ay up me duck " 

 

 Robert Durran 27 Nov 2018
In reply to John2:

> If forced to use one word, I'd go for 'interest'.


I'm struggling to come up with a single word. I'm certainly more than "interested".....

 Robert Durran 08 Dec 2018
In reply to Misha:

Just remembered one that I find really annoying for some reason. "Catch" a fall. What was wrong with "holding" a fall which it seems to have replaced with no good reason in the last few years?

 john arran 08 Dec 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Just remembered one that I find really annoying for some reason. "Catch" a fall. What was wrong with "holding" a fall which it seems to have replaced with no good reason in the last few years?

I note the change but I suspect your aversion may be based on little more than resistance to change. Seems to me that 'hold' is great for 'hold me here'-type static lock-offs, but 'catch' is far more expressive for dynamic fall arrest.

 McHeath 08 Dec 2018
In reply to john arran:

"Hold the fall" seems more logical, since you're neutralizing the fall energy, which isn't something you can physically grasp, with your own strength. I'd use "catch" if referring to the climber himself: "I caught him before he hit the deck".

 john arran 08 Dec 2018
In reply to McHeath:

I see where you're coming from but I disagree. 'Hold' is a static concept and not one that is usually associated with doing any work, in a physical sense, as would be implied in neutralising fall energy.

 Robert Durran 08 Dec 2018
In reply to john arran:

> I note the change but I suspect your aversion may be based on little more than resistance to change.

Absolutely! If something isn't broken.........

> Seems to me that 'hold' is great for 'hold me here'-type static lock-offs.

But we already had "Take" for that.

 

 Robert Durran 08 Dec 2018
In reply to McHeath:

>  I'd use "catch" if referring to the climber himself: "I caught him before he hit the deck".

Yes, I'd have thought "catch" would be better suited to spotting someone. What do boulderers say when they actually stop someone hitting the ground hard?

When I saw the thread title on here "Best catches on film" my immediate reaction was to wonder why someone had posted it on a climbing rather than a cricket forum.

Post edited at 17:08
 Root1 08 Dec 2018
In reply to GrahamD:

> "Trad" for "climbing"

Yep its CLIMBING! not bloody trad grrrr!

 

1
 McHeath 08 Dec 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

Having second thoughts here ... I've thankfully never had to hold a big whipper onto dodgy RP's, but I can imagine that the high levels of eye-hand coordination, skill and often athleticism required actually do make "catch" more appropriate in such cases.

Edit: if it's just closing my hand when someone drops a few feet onto a bomber hex though, I think I'd stick with "hold".

Post edited at 17:54
 Robert Durran 08 Dec 2018
In reply to McHeath:

> Having second thoughts here ... I've thankfully never had to hold a big whipper onto dodgy RP's, but I can imagine that the high levels of eye-hand coordination, skill and often athleticism required actually do make "catch" more appropriate in such cases.

I don't see why that makes "catch" more appropriate. Maybe "field" a fall?

 McHeath 08 Dec 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> What do boulderers say when they actually stop someone hitting the ground hard?

Probably not postable without asterisks.

 McHeath 08 Dec 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I don't see why that makes "catch" more appropriate. Maybe "field" a fall?

Because "catch" is dynamic, "hold" sounds static. "Field" is fitting, but sounds to my ears a bit like something from a 30s CC journal.


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