Advice on bolting

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In the last few weeks I've been doing a lot of exploration of my immediate area, as I'm sure you all have been as well. The other day I found an exciting looking quarry which is hidden away, not well marked on maps and to all appearances hasnt been climbed in before. The rock seems to be solid (apart from some obvious loose blocks) with nothing in the way of natural protection. It might be possible to place a few pegs, but likely the only way to climb safely would be to bolt it. There's at least 5 or 6 worthwhile looking lines.

It'll need some cleaning (extreme gardening) as well as sessions hanging around bolting to make it possible. It's on access land. Does anyone have any advice re contacting landowners for permission? Should I just get on and do it? Or find the owner and ask/offer a bottle of wine? After lockdown finishes obviously.

1
 remus Global Crag Moderator 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

If you want to play it by the book then contact the BMC/your local access rep and see what they think. Otherwise just do it discreetly and be polite if approached.

1
 Tom Valentine 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

I would think its  geographical location and rock type are a couple of factors in deciding whether to bolt it or not. 

1
 gravy 06 May 2020
In reply to Tom Valentine:

And local bolting policy...

2
 The Pylon King 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Which area is it in?

 HeMa 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Not from the UK so can't help with the specifics.

But I would assume that the cleaning (loose rock, extreme gardening) you can do to an extent without contacting the landowner (correct me if I'm wrong). Still getting permission would be vise (even if not strictly required).

After cleaning test the lines to be sure they are worth the extra effort of bolting (if bolting is the only feasible available protection, cleaning efforts might actually reveal something). And only after you're sure you need to place bolts (taking into account local ethics), try to get the permission for bolting from the owner (I believe this is mandatory).

 OnlineClimber 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Leaving aside the ethics of bolting and large scale vegetation removal for a couple of routes....

> to all appearances hasnt been climbed in before. 

Consultant your local definitive guide carefully, they often list 'other venues' within the text. The quarry may well have been explored before (20+ years ago), nature takes hold quickly and stuff done with heavy gardening or soon after many of these quarrie were abandoned now looks unclimbed. Of course  if is of suspect quality it will have not attracted climbers since. Whilst I understand you want to keep the location secret and take the glory local activities/BMC reps should be considered if you are unsure.

> It'll need some cleaning (extreme gardening) as well as sessions hanging around bolting to make it possible.

Some vegetation is protected and it's removal could easily be noticed.   It may even be a site may be a SSSI (this doesn't always mean no climbing).

Post edited at 12:19
Removed User 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Suggest you clean the lines then climb them on a shunt or top rope before deciding whether it is worth bolting them.

 myrddinmuse 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Hey! I'm a BMC access Rep, and would emphasize the advice already given of making sure it's not a SSSI before cracking on with anything. In South Wales we have had some rather large trouble in this regard resulting in the (hopefully temporary) loss of access.

The question of owner liability is a complex one, and is sort of pot luck. Many landowners are laissez faire about this kind of thing, while others may take great offense and decide to chase you off and/or chop your bolts.

This is an informative thread on bolting liabilities, too:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rock_talk/bolting_and_the_equippers_legal... 

 It seems like you're doing your due diligence though, best of luck with it, hopefully you've found a gem.

 Rog Wilko 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Have you learned how to place bolts properly?

In reply to The Pylon King:

Mid Wales, near Machynlleth.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I've placed plenty of expansion bolts and glue ins for work and pull tested them, so I'm confident I can place then safely.

In reply to Removed User:

That's a very good suggestion.

 SteveSBlake 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

I wouldn't worry about how crap it is. The sad reality is that someone else will have bolted far worse....

 The Pylon King 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Ah right.

 The Pylon King 06 May 2020
In reply to SteveSBlake:

> I wouldn't worry about how crap it is. The sad reality is that someone else will have bolted far worse....


Yeah and will have the most logged ascents in the logbooks!

 Rog Wilko 06 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

> I've placed plenty of expansion bolts and glue ins for work and pull tested them, so I'm confident I can place then safely.

That's good to hear!

 scott titt 07 May 2020
In reply to pancakeandchips:

You need permission or you may face prosecution.

"Under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is unlawful to uproot any wild plant without permission from the landowner or occupier. To uproot (digging) a plant means to 'dig up or otherwise remove the plant from the land on which it is growing', whether or not it actually has roots."


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