A Plea if you need to Poo or Pee!

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 Emmie 09 Apr 2021

A plea to all climbers and campers

Travel restrictions have only been lifted for just over a week and there is already a noticeable increase in the amount of loo roll littering our popular crags.

Now we all get caught short, particularly after a more "exciting climb" and when you've gotta go you've gotta go. So if you were organised enough to bring bog roll with you I would think perhaps you could also pack a plastic bag and take your arse and fanny wipings away?  Let's face it no one wants to see the bushes around the crag littered with bits of tissue covered in faecal matter.

While we're on the subject of turd if you find yourself touching cloth at some point during your visit and really have to deposit that log, please, make like a cat and bury that shit!

A bouldering trip on Portland has left me somewhat scarred after discovering a shit the size of a small country proudly positioned on top of a boulder within falling distance of quite a few problems.  

Image for attention only this is not the turd in question.....

Thanks all

🤗🤗


In reply to Emmie:

Thanks Emmie, it's a timely reminder.

Funnily enough I've just referenced your post on the following thread, which follows on from the BMC's current awareness campaign.

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/ukc/respect_the_wild_-_tips_for_responsib...

Post edited at 17:25
 Boomer Doomer 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Emmie:

Well and graphically stated Emmie... not sure we needed the photographic evidence... is UKC technically now a scat site? 😆

BTW... I have heard you can use pebbles as effective substitute for bog roll... not sure I'd recommend the one in the photo... though admittedly the dumper does deserves it!

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 Neil Williams 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Boomer Doomer:

If we're getting into this kind of "detailed" discussion perhaps even follow the usual Eastern practice and wash rather than wiping (using a dedicated water bottle), no paper at all then.  Hand sanitiser probably important if you do, though.  Half the world doesn't use bog roll.

Post edited at 17:53
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 Boomer Doomer 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

Perhaps an old Fairy Liquid bottle would suffice?... An improvised bidet!

 Fat Bumbly2 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams: Never underestimate the anti clagnut superpower of sphagnum

Post edited at 18:27
 Rob Exile Ward 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Emmie:

Is there really any excuse for needing a cr*p in the day? Make sure you go to the loo before you go out, ten surely most adults can last 12 hours before needing to go again. Can't they?

91
 Trangia 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> Is there really any excuse for needing a cr*p in the day? Make sure you go to the loo before you go out, ten surely most adults can last 12 hours before needing to go again. Can't they?

 Trangia 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> Is there really any excuse for needing a cr*p in the day? Make sure you go to the loo before you go out, ten surely most adults can last 12 hours before needing to go again. Can't they?

The answer to your final question is no. Come down off your judgmental self centred high horse. Not everyone is the same. You are lucky, there are many many people with bowl problems who are not so lucky, and need to go several times a day.

Having said that there is no excuse for crapping in the vicinity of a climb, and not going to the trouble of doing it well away from places where others will come to. It's usually possible to bury it or as a last resort to remove it and take it home for disposal in a plastic bag as per dog poo bag.

To the OP, your photo looks like a fox or badger deposit.

5
 Boomer Doomer 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Through extensive personally experience I've noticed I can spend an hour straining before heading out resulting in... nada. However, as soon as the last piece gets clipped to my harness the unstoppable movement begins.

How apt! Talking sh1t on UKC... at least it's not just metaphorical this time.

Post edited at 18:52
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 Albert Tatlock 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Not everyone can shit to order unfortunately 

1
 Alkis 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Without wanting to excuse going in the bush, I dunno about your gut, but mine moves at least twice a day.

As any climbing partner of mine will report, hearing me complain that I need a shit and holding it in for literally the entire day is a part of climbing with me. 😆

Post edited at 19:07
 tehmarks 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I'm not sure there are many people in the world who like having a shit outdoors; I suspect that, for most balanced people, it's an act of desperation rather than convenience.

Not that that excuses bad practice, of course.

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 jonzza 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Emmie:

If you're really caught short, as a last resort a nut key works surprsingly well for digging a hole.

Don't ask me how I came to know this

 Boomer Doomer 09 Apr 2021
In reply to tehmarks:

There's nothing as satisfying as a well executed jungle-dump! The point is... don't be an arse! 🤔

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 Neil Williams 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Trangia:

> The answer to your final question is no. Come down off your judgmental self centred high horse. Not everyone is the same. You are lucky, there are many many people with bowl problems who are not so lucky, and need to go several times a day.

Indeed...if you've got Crohn's you're still entitled to climb!

 Rob Exile Ward 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

OK it takes all sorts. What about a soldiers breakfast: ''a shit and a cigarette.' Set up for the day then 

 The Pylon King 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Emmie:

It's shit.

 Robert Durran 09 Apr 2021
In reply to tehmarks:

> I'm not sure there are many people in the world who like having a shit outdoors; I suspect that, for most balanced people, it's an act of desperation rather than convenient.

As long as one is not taken short and can find a suitable location for a dump with appropriate vegetation for wiping, it can be one of the highlights of a day in the hills. One of life's great pleasures. Certainly easily beats most public toilets.

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 Andrew Lodge 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Trangia:

> The answer to your final question is no. Come down off your judgmental self centred high horse. Not everyone is the same. You are lucky, there are many many people with bowl problems who are not so lucky, and need to go several times a day.

> Having said that there is no excuse for crapping in the vicinity of a climb, and not going to the trouble of doing it well away from places where others will come to. It's usually possible to bury it or as a last resort to remove it and take it home for disposal in a plastic bag as per dog poo bag.

> To the OP, your photo looks like a fox or badger deposit.

Surely most people know enough about their toilet habits to be able to predict this fairly well, if you are a several times a day person so be it  but wouldn't it make sense to pack a trowel and a spare plastic bag to take the paper out with you.

It's leaving it in the open that in inexcusable.

 Tom Last 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Emmie:

What the hell have they been eating do you suppose, molasses? 

 Ciro 09 Apr 2021
In reply to tehmarks:

> I'm not sure there are many people in the world who like having a shit outdoors; I suspect that, for most balanced people, it's an act of desperation rather than convenience.

> Not that that excuses bad practice, of course.

Unless it's raining cats and dogs, I'd far rather have my morning dump surrounded by the sounds and smells of nature with a nice view, than staring at an indoor toilet door. 

Also, squatting to dump over a suitable hole is far kinder to your insides than sitting on porcelain, and old school French toilets are hard to find here.

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 dan gibson 09 Apr 2021
In reply to Emmie:

In my observations I’d say about 99% of the toilet paper I see littering the countryside is not from people who have taken a shit.

Disgusting as the above photo is, this kind of thing isn’t that common,where does all the toilet paper that isn’t next to a pile of turd come from.

 Boomer Doomer 10 Apr 2021
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Certainly easily beats most public toilets.

The view is usually better, although I did once use a roofless toilet in the Ardèche Gorge with particularly magnificent views of the cliffs... now that was a moment to ponder life and the universe!

OP Emmie 10 Apr 2021
In reply to Trangia:

As I said in the post this was not the turd in question just a Google image. I don't go around taking photos of human excrement for entertainment 😂

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OP Emmie 10 Apr 2021
In reply to dan gibson:

I agree, that's why I said take your fanny wipings home too. And as per the post the picture is not the turd in question it was purely for illustrative purposes

OP Emmie 10 Apr 2021
In reply to Tom Last:

Photo just for illustrative purposes. The actual turd encountered was far bigger and very well formed. Strangely I didn't feel I wanted to hang around to take photos of it 😂

 tehmarks 10 Apr 2021
In reply to Ciro et al:

I stand corrected.

 deepsoup 10 Apr 2021
In reply to Emmie:

> Photo just for illustrative purposes.

Funnily enough, I was wondering recently if it's really worth having the "Auto hide message photos" box ticked under 'User Options' up ^there, because I always seem to click the "Show Photos" button anyway.  Well not this time! 

 deepsoup 10 Apr 2021
In reply to Boomer Doomer:

> The view is usually better, although I did once use a roofless toilet in the Ardèche Gorge with particularly magnificent views of the cliffs... now that was a moment to ponder life and the universe!

"I just happened to glance at the night sky and I marvelled at the millions of stars glistening like pieces of quicksilver thrown carelessly onto black velvet. In awe I watched the waxing moon ride across the zenith of the heavens like an amber chariot towards the void of infinite space wherein the tethered bolts of Jupiter and Mars hang forever in their orbital majesty; and as I looked at all this, I thought, 'I must put a roof on this lavatory."
Les Dawson

Post edited at 13:08
 Sean Kelly 10 Apr 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

> "I just happened to glance at the night sky and I marvelled at the millions of stars glistening like pieces of quicksilver thrown carelessly onto black velvet. In awe I watched the waxing moon ride across the zenith of the heavens like an amber chariot towards the void of infinite space wherein the tethered bolts of Jupiter and Mars hang forever in their orbital majesty; and as I looked at all this, I thought, 'I must put a roof on this lavatory."

> Les Dawson

"...and I thought what's happened to the tent?"

 Rob Parsons 10 Apr 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> Also, squatting to dump over a suitable hole is far kinder to your insides than sitting on porcelain, and old school French toilets are hard to find here.

There's nothing stopping you installing one in your house, or its equivalent in your van.

The salient question is: what happens to your shit after you've left it somewhere?

Post edited at 23:08
 deepsoup 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> There's nothing stopping you installing one in your house

Alternatively..
youtube.com/watch?v=YbYWhdLO43Q&
(It's a genuine advert.)

 Ciro 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> The salient question is: what happens to your shit after you've left it somewhere?

Microbes in the soil will break it down into plant food in 2-3 months (buried six inches deep). 

 mike123 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Emmie: Am I the only one who feels incredibly patronisised by your high and mighty post ? Do you really think anybody reading this on UKC would do that and by posting a stock image of faeces and making reference to Fannys,  you are doing anything other than polishing your own turd ?  Discussion of how to educate people is useful , telling people off who know already and wouldn’t dream of doing something is not . I don’t meant this sarcastically  but literally :People on  here do nt leave bbqs after they’ve used them , Chuck fast food wrappers out of car windows , leave litter in nice places ( or anywhere I’d guess ) and do t leave steaming piles of crap on the top of boulders . Please don’t talk to “me” and the other users of this site line they do . It’s offensive,  not as offensive as your picture but offensive non the less . Do you have any ideas on how to stop this happening other than preaching to the fairhfull

Post edited at 10:49
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 Robert Durran 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> Microbes in the soil will break it down into plant food in 2-3 months (buried six inches deep). 

Do you know how long it takes if it is not buried (like other animal poo). How much of the problem of not burying is visual? 

 Robert Durran 11 Apr 2021
In reply to mike123:

> ........making reference to Fannys.

Well I didn't know that fanny wiping was something anybody did, so I've at least learnt something from this.

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 Michael Hood 11 Apr 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

Thank you for that - absolutely brilliant - the other advert for the spray is equally funny too.

 Boomer Doomer 11 Apr 2021
In reply to deepsoup:

LMAO... that's superb! Literally next level shit! 😂

 Ciro 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Do you know how long it takes if it is not buried (like other animal poo). How much of the problem of not burying is visual? 

Aesthetics are not the reason for burying human waste - it's not the same as other animal faeces as it carries human pathogens. Burying it prevents them being carried into waterways by the rain (the soil acts as a filter), and also prevents other people coming into contact with it (either through their own misadventures or through their pets rolling around in it or eating it).

If you can't bury it because there's no suitable soil around, and you can't pack it out, the next best thing is actually not very nice visually at all... Spread it thinly on a rock so it can be dessicated by the wind.

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 Cobra_Head 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> Also, squatting to dump over a suitable hole is far kinder to your insides than sitting on porcelain................

I don't seem to have any trouble, what damage to my insides am I doing sitting on the bog?

 Ciro 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Cobra_Head:

See deepsoup's link above

 Cobra_Head 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> See deepsoup's link above


It's got unicorns in it!!

 Martin Wood 11 Apr 2021
In reply to mike123:

>  Do you have any ideas on how to stop this happening other than preaching to the fairhfull

Not you Mike, but other people on here certainly do leave fag ends, banana skins, gel wrappers, finger tape and assorted wipes after they’ve used them. 

 mike123 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Martin Wood: the thing is Martin , I really don’t think they do so on purpose . Can you honestly say you might not have dropped any off those things by accident and not spotted it ?  . There are some people on here whose opinions on various things  I really don’t like and some of their postings I find obnoxious and because of that I d go so far as saying I don’t like “them” . But hand on heart do I think any of them would take a crap on top of Boulder ? No . The crap on top of the Boulder wasn’t done By a climber ( or Boulder er if one must  make a distinction ) . It just wasn’t . To post on here wagging the  finger is just rude . “Me and my gang are on  to you so watch out “ . Of course it’s disgusting but it just wasn’t anybody on here . Let’s all stand in our big gang and wag our fingers at ......? Well who ? It’s rather like the primary teacher keeping the whole  class in at break when somebody from another class snook in and farted . 

Post edited at 18:26
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 Tom Valentine 11 Apr 2021
In reply to mike123:

You seem to be implying that climbers don't ever fall foul of crag etiquette with regard to taking a crap. Either that or you think that UKC climbers are a different breed with higher standards than the rest of the climbing world.

I've read several accounts of people finding turds on belay ledges, You can't pass that off as local chavs up to their usual tricks.

 Mick Ward 11 Apr 2021
In reply to mike123:

> The crap on top of the Boulder wasn’t done By a climber ( or Boulder er if one must  make a distinction ) . It just wasn’t . To post on here wagging the  finger is just rude . “Me and my gang are on  to you so watch out “ . Of course it’s disgusting but it just wasn’t anybody on here .

I wish I could share your confidence - but I can't. And I live on Portland, almost certainly less than two miles from the poo in question.

The Weston scrotes' modus operandi is chucking stuff off the crag (e.g. sofas), not poos. I don't think I've ever seen a poo on the west side. And I've been there thousands of times.

On the East side, the walkers/visitors are pretty well behaved. The scrotes don't go there - too far to walk. I've seen dozens of poos on the East side. Most of them have been near Cheyne Weares car park, which (pre-Covid) was infested with climbers' vans. Some have been in the Bower (almost certainly climbers). If this one was in the boulder field, it was almost certainly climbers.

A lot of climbers on Portland have minimal exposure to climbing history/culture/ethics. Many have come straight off London climbing walls. Most are well behaved. Some aren't.

I've always been as discreet as I can be about pooing outside. It sounds as though the person in question was exhibiting display behaviour. I'd guess late teens, early twenties, macho male. And a 'climber' of sorts. Whether they go on UKC, I wouldn't like to hazard a guess. But they might, so surely Emmie's post was worth it. Also it may influence others to think twice before they drop their pants and do another poo on Portland.

Mick

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 Dax H 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> Is there really any excuse for needing a cr*p in the day? Make sure you go to the loo before you go out, ten surely most adults can last 12 hours before needing to go again. Can't they?

If only life were so simple. I work in remote locations with no facilities, I would say 2 or 3 times a year I need to use the bucket in the back of my van. Fortunately its easy for me to dispose of it, I'm normally on a sewage works anyway so I drop it in to the inlet to the site. Once upon a time you would just hang your arse over the inlet channel but that's not allowed anymore.

Now I'm 1 person and aware of the situation I'm careful with what I eat. Times that be who knows how many people visit a popular crag on a weekend. 

 Rob Parsons 11 Apr 2021
In reply to mike123:

> the thing is Martin , I really don’t think they do so on purpose .

If you think that all people who go climbing are paragons of virtue and good taste, then I think you live in a self-defined and self-regarding fantasy land.

The people who leave turds below Stanage, for example, are almost certainly people who go climbing there.

 Cobra_Head 11 Apr 2021
In reply to mike123:

> the thing is Martin , I really don’t think they do so on purpose . Can you honestly say you might not have dropped any off those things by accident and not spotted it ? 

There's dropped and forgotten and then there's dumped, I'm always bringing other people's shite away from the crag with me. If you're suggesting most of this is forgotten or accidentally dropped I'd have to disagree, either that or people can't pack, or have serious memory issues.

 Misha 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Mick Ward:

Indeed, I know ‘proper’ climbers who wouldn’t hesitate to do a poo in the Cheyne Weares car park area, when all you need to do is drive over to use the loo in Tesco or perhaps have a cuppa in one of the cafes.

 Misha 11 Apr 2021
In reply to Dax H:

So we have a solution - a sewage treatment works below Stanage!

OP Emmie 12 Apr 2021
In reply to Mick Ward:

Said it much better than I ever could Mick. The toilet paper and the excrement is largely in places that no one other than climbers ever venture.

I apologise if the word 'fanny' offended anyone. Front bottom perhaps would have been more appropriate

 Rob Naylor 12 Apr 2021
In reply to mike123:

> Am I the only one who feels incredibly patronisised by your high and mighty post ? Do you really think anybody reading this on UKC would do that and by posting a stock image of faeces and making reference to Fannys,  you are doing anything other than polishing your own turd ?  

SOME climbers definitely do. I've encountered a great pile of poo at the top of pitch 2 on Rowan Route on the Milestone Buttress, and on a ledge on South Face Direct on Chair Ladder. Hardly places that non-climbers would e likely to frequent!

 Dave Garnett 12 Apr 2021
In reply to mike123:

> Am I the only one who feels incredibly patronisised by your high and mighty post ? 

No, apparently at least three other people are equally pompous/ squeamish.  

 tallsteve 12 Apr 2021
In reply to Emmie:

"Front bottom"  yeuch, my least favourite euphemism.

There was a time when you could buy unbleached bog roll.  Being wood chipped based it was brown and didn't really catch on, but it did decompose in the environment nicely.  There's no excuse for white bog roll. Dock leaves are great and there's numerous large soft leaved plants around if you look.  Sphagnum as already mentioned gives you a wash, wipe and brush up all in one go.  Neat.  Pebbless can be good too.

Van Lifers need a trowel, especially in popular areas.  I have a van and avoid them due to the amount of shiiite around the place.

Shite is natural, loo roll isn't.  Bury it or cover it (stones, logs, plants), use leaves.  Gone in a few weeks.  The only caveat is areas where rare plants exist due to poor soils.  Enriching the environment may not be ideal.

 Rob Parsons 12 Apr 2021
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> I've read several accounts of people finding turds on belay ledges, You can't pass that off as local chavs up to their usual tricks.

A long time ago in the Alps, we were just gearing up under a rock route, having made the approach across a glacier - when I realized that, in my mountain boots, I was standing in an enormous human turd. The dirty bastard (obviously, a climber) who had left that behind couldn't have picked a worse spot: it was right where you needed to gear up.

The worst of it for me was that, since we were going up and over rather than than, say abseiling down, I had to pack my mountain boots in my rucksack for the climb.

That was something like 35 years ago, and I am still annoyed about it.

 Baron Weasel 12 Apr 2021
In reply to tehmarks:

> I'm not sure there are many people in the world who like having a shit outdoors; I suspect that, for most balanced people, it's an act of desperation rather than convenience.

> Not that that excuses bad practice, of course.

Nowt better than a poo with a view!(appropriately dealt with afterwards of course).

 Cobra_Head 13 Apr 2021
In reply to Ciro:

> See deepsoup's link above


Well, always one to give a new thing a go, I gave it a try.

Half way though, i pissed on the floor, because feet up alters the angle of your equipment, this caused me to "nip" mid-evacuation, and broke what might have been a more complete log, needing an extra push to clear the pipe as it were.

So thanks for the advice, but I'm going back to what I know and what's work for the past 50+ years.

Post edited at 02:02
 Emily_pipes 13 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Parsons:

Indeed. Climbers are not paragons of virtue. Found a giant, sloppy shite at the bottom of an abseil on Skye a few years ago -- King's Chimney off the West Ridge of Sgurr nan Gillean. I was lucky that my rope didn't land in it when I threw it down the cliff. The perp was most likely a climber, given the location.

Made for some interesting abseil calls with my partner, who abbed down first.

"There's a big shit down here!"

"Is the rope in the shit?!"

"No!"

 Ian_Cognito 14 Apr 2021
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

> Is there really any excuse for needing a cr*p in the day? Make sure you go to the loo before you go out, then surely most adults can last 12 hours before needing to go again. Can't they?

I had major bowel surgery as a baby. Unfortunately, that rather destroyed a lot of the nerves and I don't get the usual sensations of needing to go for a dump, let alone being able to properly do so when I do and I can be there for a while.

I can control it to some extent with medication (which requires a degree of pre-planning and isn't always effective) and avoid certain foods that are known to upset me, but it's not perfect all the time and I get caught out sometimes. One of the items that always lives in my rucksack is a small pack containing loo roll, spare undies, Imodium and, more recently, biodegradable wipes.

I try and do what I need to as discretely as possible and away from paths and so on - apologies to all if I've not quite achieved that on occasion.


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