10 year old climbs 8c

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 kevin stephens 16 Jun 2020

https://rockandice.com/climbing-news/10-year-old-theo-blass-climbs-5-14b-in...

This doesn’t seem right to me, not sure why , maybe because I’m an old  fuddy duddy 

12
 jezb1 16 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

What don’t you like?

In reply to jezb1:

I didn’t say dislike, but a disconcerting paradigm shift of what I’ve felt climbing to be about and represent, a subjective rather than objective opinion 

7
 plyometrics 16 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Certainly a very impressive feat. 

Perhaps if Theo had been quoted in the article saying something like “I’m stoked to climb 8c, it was an amazing day climbing with my Dad and one I won’t forget any time soon...” it might have helped soften an article that makes it sound like his old man may be far more excited about this than he is. I do hope I’m wrong though.  

 Toerag 16 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Would you be as shocked to read a headline "10 year old is really good at gymnastics"? Because that's all that sportclimbing is really.  Every tiny hold for an adult is big for a 10yr old.

20
 wbo2 16 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Different strokes for different folks.... but its still climbing 

 henwardian 16 Jun 2020
In reply to Toerag:

> Every tiny hold for an adult is big for a 10yr old.


Please don't leave posts unfinished. When downplaying children's sends in a fit of jealousy you mustn't forget to say that their muscles don't get pumped because they work a different way to adult's muscles and that they only have a tiny bodyweight to carry up the wall.

(also, for bonus points you can lambast "pushy" parents (though someone already beat you to that) and suggest that their parents will for ever break their bodies' normal development by subjecting body tissues to such extreme stresses before they are fully grown).

15
 Robert Durran 16 Jun 2020
In reply to Toerag:

>   Every tiny hold for an adult is big for a 10yr old.

I've wondered about this. I've never watched a small child climbing outdoors, but indoors it can be obvious that some routes can effectively be of a very different style for a small child - much bigger moves between relatively much better holds. A shallow two finger pocket becomes a good three finger pocket and so on. Picking the right route might be a much easier proposition for a child (while obviously other routes will be much harder). 

 dan gibson 16 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Theo is a fantastic climber, the naysayers can only dream of climbing at his level. 

You'll be hearing a lot more about him in the future. 

 wbo2 17 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

> I didn’t say dislike, but a disconcerting paradigm shift of what I’ve felt climbing to be about and represent, a subjective rather than objective opinion 

Skidding around on wet gritstone is banned now   .  In the good old days that's what taking the kids climbing meant, now ledge shuffling is out and overhanging limestone is in 

Post edited at 07:50
 Richard Horn 17 Jun 2020
In reply to dan gibson:

> You'll be hearing a lot more about him in the future. 

Unless in a few years time, he discovers he likes booze and chasing girls (or men... lets be PC) more...

Monsieur Blass does sound a bit like a pushy parent, but Blass the younger may discover (like Ondra) he loves it, or he may decide he loves something else entirely, I hope Blass the elder is happy either way. My parents loved kayaking and took me when I was young, too young it scared the life out of me and I have never done it since!

 DaveHK 17 Jun 2020
In reply to plyometrics: 

> makes it sound like his old man may be far more excited about this than he is. I do hope I’m wrong though. 

I knew a very good junior competition climber whose dad got all sorts of flak for being a pushy parent. Since that's what everyone was saying I just assumed it was the truth. Then I had a coffee with him one day and he told me that he'd never pushed his child into anything and that all the drive came from her and he was just doing his best to support her.

Since then I've been a bit wary of the idea of pushy parents. I'm sure they exist but kids have their own drives and desires and can be pretty pushy themselves.

 Coel Hellier 17 Jun 2020
In reply to DaveHK:

> I'm sure they exist but kids have their own drives and desires and can be pretty pushy themselves.

I'm pretty sure that a 10-yr-old (or anyone else for that matter) cannot get up an 8c without a heck of a lot of internal drive. 

 Andy Hardy 17 Jun 2020
In reply to henwardian:

I know of one kid who got fractured growth plates from over doing the climbing - not, I hasten to add through "pushy parents" but from being too bloody keen. Sometimes parents have to apply the brakes instead of the accelerator!

 plyometrics 17 Jun 2020
In reply to DaveHK:

I agree and whilst it could be misconstrued I was intimating his father was “being pushy” I didn’t actually say that. 

The point I was trying to make really was in response to Kevin’s assumption it didn’t “seem quite right“ to him.

My post was based around the fact there was no reference to how Theo feels about his great achievement; a theme you’ll find in most reports of climbing at a high standard. 

cb294 17 Jun 2020
In reply to Andy Hardy:

Much more likely in gym work than actual climbing (due to the both repetitive and high intensity loads you are likely to generate in the gym)!

I would wait with campus boards, same as I would as a Judo coach not recommend weight training before, say, 13yo (depending on the individual child), and then only well designed routines that are not putting the growth plates at risk.

CB

 DaveHK 17 Jun 2020
In reply to plyometrics:

Yes, I wasn't being critical of your post, just commenting on the idea of pushy parents in general. 

 cwarby 17 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Fair play to the lad, high expectations now!

I keep looking at the piccie though. There seems to be a long tail from the knot that appears frayed?? 

6
 Stairclimber 17 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Interesting comment about the difficulty of giving a dynamic belay to a lightweight child. Parents taking kids on via ferattas take note.

1
Le Sapeur 17 Jun 2020
In reply to cwarby:

> Fair play to the lad, high expectations now!

> I keep looking at the piccie though. There seems to be a long tail from the knot that appears frayed?? 

The rope has been cut and not taped up. What's the problem?

2
 Danbow73 17 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

An impressive send and well done to the kid but, do we remember Tito Traversa.

The difference between gymnastics and hard climbing is if you get gymnastics wrong you dont generally die. Most parents would hesitate to let a child that age cross a busy road by themselves but somehow they're mature enough to make the fine judgements involved in climbing?

Also that knot in the picture is an awful example of climbing practice, I'm a bit alarmed that someone was allowed to climb on it let alone allow it to be distributed to the media

19
 cwarby 17 Jun 2020
In reply to Le Sapeur:

Quite possibly and the rope may well be good. I just like to look after my gear and it seems lax. If the length of the tail is because of the fraying, why not tie it out the way. Maybe I too am a bit fuddy duddy.

2
 MeMeMe 17 Jun 2020
In reply to plyometrics:

> My post was based around the fact there was no reference to how Theo feels about his great achievement; a theme you’ll find in most reports of climbing at a high standard. 

It maybe that they are happy for Theo to push his climbing but don't really want him to be involved in talking to the media (whether directly or even indirectly), hence nothing from Theo and his dad seemingly talking for him.

I know if he was my son I'd be very wary about interaction with the media at such a young age.

 Luke01 17 Jun 2020
In reply to Danbow73:

Maybe the kid had been taught how to asses the safety of his knot and knows that, while its not pretty, its completely safe and doesn't need retying just in case he sends and the picture someone took ends up on climbing media sites with 'fuddy-duddys' criticising him for it?

Sport ropes generally need the end 2 or 3m cutting off quite regularly, and it's not uncommon to do this at the crag with your cheese knife. 

1
 Robert Durran 17 Jun 2020
In reply to cwarby:

> Quite possibly and the rope may well be good. I just like to look after my gear and it seems lax. If the length of the tail is because of the fraying, why not tie it out the way. Maybe I too am a bit fuddy duddy.

I am much more worried about his T-shirt being untucked and flapping around with his chalk bag underneath. The obstruction to dipping could quite easily make the difference between sending and not sending. I blame his dad.

 Danbow73 17 Jun 2020
In reply to Luke01:

Of course it will hold a fall, until he accidentally clips the tail, which is surprisingly easy to do when the tail is that long and you're under pressure. 

8
 Robert Durran 17 Jun 2020
In reply to Danbow73:

> The difference between gymnastics and hard climbing is if you get gymnastics wrong you dont generally die.

The high bar and the assymmetrical bars look a lot more dangerous to me than sport climbing.

 Wil Treasure 17 Jun 2020
In reply to Danbow73:

It's hardly fair to hold Tito up as an example of why we shouldn't let kids lead. His accident was horribly avoidable, but it wasn't that someone had left him to deal with the nuances of complex risk-based decision making. By your logic we shouldn't let kids travel in cars, because they might not put their seatbelt on - a risk that can be managed by an adult, the same as checking safety equipment should be. 

1
 Martin Haworth 17 Jun 2020
In reply to cwarby:

I’m with you on this one, I’m fuddy duddy when it comes to tying in. Can’t stand sloppy knots or a tail that is too short or too long.

Regards the original post, what a fantastic achievement, let’s hope the enthusiasm and ability stays with him as he grows.

 neilh 17 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

He is French and it can be part of their school ciriculum.

There again Luce Doudy's parent might currently have a view.

Not an easy one, there are plenty of young prodigy's, our own John Allen being a fine historical  example.

7
 Purple 17 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

What's Theo ever done on grit?

7
 Ramon Marin 17 Jun 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

I know both parents, Vlad and Aurelie, they are both mega psyched and sound and loving parents. They kid has grown into the climbing thing and I just don't see what's bad about it. If you have beef with this then you have been with all the thousands of kids growing into what their parents do and hence push the boundaries, Max Verstappen comes to mind for example

In reply to Ramon Marin:

Hi Ramon, if you read my second post (third on this thread) you will see I haven’t any beef at all with the climber or his family. But I accept it’s a UKC tradition to get the pitch forks out before reading the whole picture. I wish him and his family well, but it’s  another sign (if we needed one) that climbing is very different now to what it was when I first got hooked. As said above, I recognise that this is a purely subjective rather than an objective view.

Post edited at 16:59
6
Blanche DuBois 18 Jun 2020
In reply to Toerag:

> Would you be as shocked to read a headline "10 year old is really good at gymnastics"? Because that's all that sportclimbing is really.  Every tiny hold for an adult is big for a 10yr old.

Still, at least you aren't bitter.

Blanche DuBois 18 Jun 2020
In reply to Purple:

> What's Theo ever done on grit?

Man is that a tediously predicable "joke". It's gone beyond the "funny because it's so unfunny" ironic stage. Even birdynumnum would probably balk at using it.  Maybe.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I do wonder about some of the kids I see training at my gym. They could only be 12 years old or so, with 1/3rd of their weight attached to their belt, hangboarding on tiny edges.. 

I just wonder how their joints are going to be at 30, with another 60 years left to live. 

They absolutely crush, don't get me wrong. But I do worry about long term health.

In reply to Robert Durran:

> >   Every tiny hold for an adult is big for a 10yr old.

> I've wondered about this. I've never watched a small child climbing outdoors, but indoors it can be obvious that some routes can effectively be of a very different style for a small child - much bigger moves between relatively much better holds. A shallow two finger pocket becomes a good three finger pocket and so on. Picking the right route might be a much easier proposition for a child (while obviously other routes will be much harder). 

This is obviously true, you just need to try climbing some of the competition routes set for strong Youth E climbers as an adult.

Where an experienced coach/parent selects an outdoor route to play to the strengths of a child climber they will be able to find one where the adult grade does not really correspond well to the difficulty experienced by a small child.

It is definitely a great achievement but it isn't that useful to bang on about the 8c grade as a measure of the difficulty involved because it would be even easier to find routes with grades much lower than 8c that a small child would have no chance on - you just need to find an unavoidable move which involves a long reach.

Post edited at 14:11
Removed User 23 Jun 2020

I fully sympathise with all the (constructive but) critical comments expressed in this thread. I even recognise some of my own thoughts and feelings when, a few years ago, a young climber sent a very hard sport route and made headlines. It felt wrong. I felt betrayed. I had been climbing (or at least trying hard) for years and years, trained hard at one point (even though in my youth I was convinced that training was cheating), I considered myself a strong climber until this kid came and crushed a route at a grade I could only dream about. My feeling of injustice had to come out, and it did, I believe it was on a Monday. It was easy, easier than climbing - making a few sound assumptions and jumping to a few obvious conclusions along the way, from the comfort of my desk at work I did it - I posted a well-intended comment on an online forum. It was critical about the parents (I did not know them). It was patronizing towards the kid (I've never met him). It felt good - I had discharged my duty.

A few years later my young kid tried climbing a rock. Initially it was a disaster - he was more interested in the insects he would encounter on the way ("they are better climbers than us" he would say). He did not enjoy it and we left it at that. As he was spending most weekends at the crag with his parents, a few months later he wanted to try again. It was a bit better - he even found a little 4c project and we were terribly proud when he top roped it after a few sessions. He then lost motivation - the 5a he wanted to try was too hard. He spent the next few months building stone arches at weekends. We did not mind - as long as he was not seeking our attention we could climb and we were very happy with that state of affairs. Another couple of years later when he knew by name every stone at our local crag (there were no other kids around to play with that day) he tried to climb again and this time it was different. He could feel and understand the rock. He could find his own way up a seemingly very difficult and reachy sections. Soon he started projecting harder routes and could spend months working on them (like the grown ups around) without losing patience. We tried to teach him that grades are not important, especially for kids, that he should be having fun...but at the same time grades was all adults around him were talking about, so the message did not really get across. He started climbing outdoors more than us, started bouldering indoors in a club with a bunch of other kids - we were obviously happy about this (we would not need to argue about our next holiday destination) but at the same time frustrated that we could not have our dose of climbing on weekends. He started cruising through the grades and sometimes we had to put the brakes on and impose some rules: no more than 2 days of climbing in a row, no more than 2 days of indoor climbing per week, no campusing (even if the young lads campusing at the local gym looked soo cool), no climbing if you provoke your little sister or if you don't do your homework... on top of the regular rules: early bedtime, at least 3 balanced meals a day, forced 2 week break, a bit of stretching to get into a good habit. He wanted to try way too many routes, some of which were not appropriate (way too exposed (and impossible to work on a top rope) or reachy) and we had to select the few where he could push his limits safely. Naturally, when he would find a gem - a hard but doable route that he dreamt about sending, we would do everything we could to help him fulfil his dream (put top ropes, long slings, look for beta, talk about it, encourage, advise, coach, consol, manage frustration and negative emotions...). You probably guessed it by now - his name is Theo. His motivation and drive are limitless, he loves climbing, insects, chess, Harry Potter, judo, the Castle climbing wall (he found the Arch a bit crowded), cats, football, running, table tennis, jumping with his mountainbike (much more dangerous than climbing) he loves a good challenge. And by the way his rope is absolutely fine (as is his knot). Only trouble is that he has the annoying habit of wearing the same orange T-shirt everytime he sends a hard route and occasionally he puts his knee pad on the wrong knee. He knows that around the age of 11 he will have to stop climbing on some types of holds because of growth plate injury risk. He knows that he will grow heavier (but at the same time his muscles will grow much stronger and more explosive). He does not know about girls and alcohol yet. And he hates wearing a helmet (we tried a few times). He loves playing. He is good at many games, but climbing is his favourite - maybe because adults are so serious about it (we don't do Fortnite). Theo is not talking to the media, has no social media accounts, is not allowed to access the internet without an adult sitting next to him (just imagine how he could feel about himself and his pushy parents if he reads this thread), and you can safely put the blame for all the attention seeking to his parents. And I am sure he would love to do something on grit one day)    

1

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...