Women climbers wanted for online research project

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 ledarville 27 Nov 2022

What? As part of my performance psychology MSc at Bangor University, I am researching the relationship between basic psychological needs and identity in everyday (i.e. non-professional) women climbers, and am looking for participants to fill in a short online survey.

Why? Having a well-developed sense of identity in physical activity has been tied to a range of positive outcomes. This is of particular interest in women as they tend to get less physical activity than men at every stage of life after around age 8. Understanding the factors that help women build a strong sense of identity in climbing can help inform initiatives aiming to increase and maintain participation.

Who? If you are 18+ years old, identify as a woman, have been climbing (any style) for at least a year, (in a non-professional context), you are eligible to take part in this study.

How? Further information and the survey can be found at: https://bangorhumanscience.fra1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_737DxF1rCsfG406 

Any questions, let me know! Thanks in advance

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 BusyLizzie 27 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Done.

Interesting. I wonder if you would get different answers (overall) from men.

 olddirtydoggy 27 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Had a look on here to see if my wife would be interested in helping you but she isn't. I'm just curious about the part where you make clear that you are accepting persons identifying as women. Would I be right in saying that somebody born as a biological man could be accepted on the study? I'm also curious to know if their contribution would be included in the numbers of biological women or if they would be collected in their own category and studied separately to see if there are any differences?

I'm aware that my question could set off a fire storm but my question is just simple curiosity as to how you are collecting the data and if you are looking at any differences between women who are born so biologically from birth compared to men who switch? All the best with your study, it's an interesting topic.

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In reply to ledarville:

Do you want people who identify as women, or genetically female humans? They surely should  be the same, but your choice of words implies otherwise?

Fluctuating hormones both over the course of a month and a woman’s lifetime can significantly impact upon motivation. I’d go as far as to say it should be a key aspect of your research. With the greatest of respect for people who have questioned their gender identity, I think there needs to be clarity on who is being asked to partake for this to be meaningful.

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 Luke90 28 Nov 2022
In reply to WanderingGinger:

I don't really understand why people are jumping to talking about trans women. Apart from a now fairly common piece of language asking for people who "identify as a woman", I don't see any indication that it's relevant.

There are no real figures, only estimates, but reasonable ones seem to put trans people at somewhere around 1% of the population. It doesn't seem likely trans women are going to make up a significant proportion of respondents to the survey.

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 climbingpixie 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Done. Have you been in touch with anyone from the Pinnacle Club to drum up participants? If not, they would be an excellent group to approach.

 Tigerlili 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Done, but I felt that a lot of these questions were very leading and very negative..

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 stubbed 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Bit unusual this. Why would I be climbing with people who I didn't like / trust? It seems to come from the point of view of club climbing, not just climbing with a bunch of mates & like minded people. My climbing friends were some of my closest friends and still are (men or women). There was no option to represent this.

 olddirtydoggy 28 Nov 2022
In reply to Luke90:

Both myself and the other poster have made clear our questions come from a place of curiosity. I agree that we are talking about a very small section of people when we bring in the identity stuff but I'm aware of 2 bio males who identify as women at my local wall. Lets say the study gets 30 hits and 2 of them are part of this smaller group, it could have an effect on the results if there are significant differences.

One point of these studies are to see if there are patterns and differences between respective groups. This is a good study.

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 liss 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Done, cheers.

 Clazza94 28 Nov 2022
In reply to Tigerlili:

I would go so far as to say most of the questions were negative leading statements and therefore haven’t done it. 

 AtLargesse 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

That was fun. I found the questions to be very recognizable and I smiled a bit because they are very much reflective of how it feels to be a woman in climbing. For me at least. I feel warmly towards people I climb with, but also like they don’t like me 😂😂😂. 

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Done. Really interesting questions, thank you, and something I've been thinking about a lot - I also related to a lot of this. 

I think the question about climbing with people you feel uncomfortable with was a good one, actually - it can definitely be a recurring experience if you don't have a regular partner so often have to climb with new people (even just when travelling), or because you have climbing friends who don't make you feel comfortable in your climbing, for whatever reason (which could be about the friends, or just your own insecurity, mismatched goals, etc - not necessarily anyone doing anything wrong as such). I've definitely had both of these experiences. 

I'd be interested to know what feedback you get on this - does whether you feel in control of your climbing (eg that you have options, get to decide who you climb with, what you do, etc) impact on your climbing? 

Would also be interested to see whether this varies between people who are mostly leaders and mostly seconds (I suspect so - surely feeling you don't have any control and should just be grateful is a common thing for seconds?). Also how much this is affected by whether you mostly climb with one type of person - clubs, friends, romantic partners, Internet randoms... - and whether you're generally the stronger or weaker climber (for want of a better adjective).

Post edited at 18:17
OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to climbingpixie:

Thank you so much! I will do that - have a list to work through as trying to get as many participants as possible. 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to AtLargesse:

Thank you so much! It has been so fascinating to do all the initially research into this to arrive at the research questions I have - although it's a relatively understudied area. 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to liss:

Thank you! 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to Queen of the Traverse:

Oh yes - you raise some really interesting questions there. A continuation of this would definitely be looking at categorising people by leaders and seconders, and who someone climbs with etc. I have some of those demographic Qs for exactly this reason but it will all depend on getting a high number of responses as to whether I will have enough data to analyse results on those factors. 

Thank you for completing the survey and happy climbing! 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to stubbed:

Thanks for the feedback - the questions are from a pre-existing and well tested measure in psychology that has been adapted for many domains (as I have done for climbing) so there wasn't scope to change it much from the original. I can see what you mean that it may sound like an odd question but there are sometimes people who arguable may not climb from an intrinsically motivated place (doing it because a significant other does, or because they feel they 'should', or as someone else pointed out in the comments, meeting random people online to climb with so there may be trust/like issues there). 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to Clazza94:

Interesting - thank you for the feedback both. I didn't come up with the questions (apart from the demographic ones) - they are adapted from pre-existing and tested measures in psych research so I had to stick as closely to them as possible while changing them for the climbing domain. Will pass your comments on to my uni supervisor as that's useful to know. 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to olddirtydoggy:

Hi, thanks for having a look at this and you raise some interesting questions. 

I am not (at this point) looking at any differences between cis and trans women - my aim is to look at 'women's' experiences as a whole and I want to make the survey as inclusive as possible in that regard. I do definitely accept the possibility that someone who was socialised as a boy/man (and who climbed during this time) then transitioned later in life may have come to build their climber identity in a different way from those of us who were born and brought up as/identifying as girls/women, however the estimate of transpeople in the gen pop is so low (between 0.3 and 0.6%) that it is unlikely to affect the data in the way I will be analysing it (latent profile analysis if anyone happens to be an expert and wants to help me out!). So yes a trans woman would be accepted if they felt they wanted to participate and fit the other eligibility! Thanks again. 

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 olddirtydoggy 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Thanks for taking time out to reply, my casual curiosity is all good so best of luck with your work. Thanks.

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to WanderingGinger:

Hi, thanks for your reply. I answered in more detail to another post asking about this but yes, trans women are welcome to participate if they fit the other criteria. You are right that many factors can affect motivation, such as biological differences, and it is a limitation of designing research in general that I can't control for or measure everything (hormones will fluctuate over the lifetime of cis women as well for example). While acknowledging there can be interaction between the two, I am looking at some specific social psychological factors rather than physiological/biological ones, so arguably biology may have less influence than social environment and socialisation experiences etc. 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to BusyLizzie:

Thank you for completing it! Yes, I am hoping that if this survey design works well in this study we can easily replicate it with men for a future follow up. As a women who climbs, I wanted to do this initially from anecdotal evidence and personal experiences at the wall/crag! 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to olddirtydoggy:

Cheers! 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to Luke90:

Thanks

 Bulls Crack 28 Nov 2022
In reply to olddirtydoggy:

You could identify as a woman for the duration of the survey?   Too scared to put a winky emoji.....

Post edited at 20:00
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 climbingpixie 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

If you'd like me to post a link to the Climbers Club FB group I'm happy to do so. I'm also in another couple of women's climbing groups on FB so happy to post there too. Could probably put you in touch with some Pinnies if you don't have any contacts within the club. Another option might be to email the Women's Climbing Symposium or Women's Trad Festival organisers to see if they'll promote it?

It sounds really interesting and I'd be keen to read your results. I'm a passionate advocate for the positive impact of sport on women's wellbeing and happiness - taking up climbing was a real life-changing event for me, much more so than other sports I've done - and anything that helps to promote/encourage women to participate as full independent climbers is great.

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to Bulls Crack:

Hi, I guess (hope) you are joking but I have put a lot of time and effort into this degree so far (while working pretty much full time) so I am hoping people won't deliberately try and skew my results when I am trying to contribute to a community and sport that means so much to me. Thanks. 

 olddirtydoggy 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Just out of curiosity, have you been down to your local climbing wall with your study?

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to climbingpixie:

I would be massively grateful if you can share the link in any and all women's climbing groups you are part of! Feel free to forward the survey link or the link to this page, or I can message you in a day or so with a graphic you could share instead (still need to create it!). 

I have a contact associated with the WTF and was planning to email the WCS but I don't have any contacts in the Pinnacle Club so if you do know anyone I could speak to about promoting this that'd be great! 

Yes climbing has been a really interesting and therapeutic/mindful activity for me too (especially as I have a pretty intense fear of heights!). I've heard plenty of people, especially women, describe it as positively life-changing as well and giving them appreciation of what their body can do rather than how it looks. 

OP ledarville 28 Nov 2022
In reply to olddirtydoggy:

I will be putting posters up yes, and maybe taking paper copies depending on how my respondent numbers are looking. 

You could try posting in Womenclimb if they'll allow it?

 climbingpixie 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

No probs, I know loads of Pinnies so I'll pass on the info. If you're planning to do a graphic I'll wait for that as it'll look better on a FB page. Feel free to email me through here.

>  giving them appreciation of what their body can do rather than how it looks.

This was a huge thing for me, firstly with martial arts and then with climbing. I never realised what a negative relationship I had with my body until I started seriously engaging in sport and perceiving it as this amazing creation that could fight people, run fast, ride 100 miles and get me up mountains instead of a collection of parts, valuable only for how closely they conformed to someone's aesthetic of beauty. 

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 Bulls Crack 28 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Wouldn't dream of it personally  but you may run the risk of data being skewed anyway by potentially  different answers from women (at birth) and people who've identified as women subsequently - which in itself might be interesting but won't be picked up. 

Post edited at 23:49
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OP ledarville 29 Nov 2022
In reply to climbingpixie:

No way! I did martial arts too (aikido mostly but also karate and thai boxing) from the age of 21 (before I started climbing) and found that so beneficial after teenage years spent being self-conscious. I am now much more able to focus on and appreciate what I can do, not what I look like and only compare myself to myself (mostly!). 

Thanks again, will send you a graphic to post in the next few days! 

OP ledarville 29 Nov 2022
In reply to Bulls Crack:

Thanks - as I said in other posts I have looked into and considered this already. 

 Sazzles 29 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Completed the study

I think people are jumping too much on the OP using the term “identify as a women”. It’s a lose-lose situation for OP. If they didn’t have that I have no doubt someone would have piped up and asked why they are only focusing on biological women. The study is clearly focusing on psychosocial impact of being female.

I guess, ideally, the study would have asked the participant to indicate their gender. 
 

Interesting study OP. Hope your studies go well. Be willing to defend why you didn’t include males in your sample though as you cannot really draw any conclusions about the role of gender from your current sample (if that was your intention). 

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 olddirtydoggy 30 Nov 2022
In reply to Sazzles:

Hi, just to clarify again, the idea that myself and another poster were "Jumping" on the OP is a bit of a misrepresentation, certainly of what I asked and I'm sure is the same for our other friend above. Reading posts on a forum can often pose a challenge as we can read them in a very negative context, rather than the way they might have been intended. My enquiry was born out of friendly curiosity which I'm glad the OP took in context which lead to a productive exchange where I wished her the best of luck. Hopefully my reply will have helped. All the best.

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OP ledarville 30 Nov 2022
In reply to Sazzles:

Thanks for completing it! Yes, the decision to focus on women wasn't taken lightly and have discussed it a lot with my uni supervisor - had to do a whole load of literature reviewing and building a justification to even get to this point.

Thanks again!

 Jon Read 30 Nov 2022
In reply to ledarville:

Really nice to see how much you're engaging with your study population: a welcome change to some research request threads. Good luck with the study. Will you post your findings here in due course?

 cathsullivan 30 Nov 2022
In reply to Sazzles:

 

> Interesting study OP. Hope your studies go well. Be willing to defend why you didn’t include males in your sample though as you cannot really draw any conclusions about the role of gender from your current sample (if that was your intention). 

There are many meaningful ways of studying gender that don't involve comparing groups of men and women.

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OP ledarville 30 Nov 2022
In reply to Jon Read:

Hi Jon, yes I have a contact at UKC so hoping I can post summary of findings here next year (and maybe do some talks at climbing walls/clubs, (the project is due late summer 2023).

 Sazzles 01 Dec 2022
In reply to cathsullivan:

100% agreed, but in this study collecting only quantitative data of one population (climbers identifying as female)- you will struggle to draw any inferences about the role of gender (and they are clearly interested in those identifying as female, if they've specific enough to request it) without either a. collecting data that allows you to make such inferences or b. having other existing data to support the inferences you want to make about gender. Given that OP said they adapted the measure for this study, suggests to me maybe they don't have another dataset?

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