Why is Belgium such a climbing powerhouse?

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 CaelanB 02 Aug 2022

Aloha,

A question that's always perplexed me is how a country as small and as flat as Belgium comes to have a disproportionately large number of total monster climbers. Names that come to mind are Sean Villanueva O'Driscoll, Siebe Vanhee, Nico Favresse, and Sébastien Berthe. Intrestingly, these guys all seem to have a strong trad emphasis despite the fact that all the crags in Belgium appear to be sport crags.

So, how come Belgium has so many amazing climbers and how come they tend to lean in trad directions? Alternatively, you may disagree with the premise of this question that Belgium does have a disproportionately large number of strong climbers. I'd be interested to hear why you think this too!

 Iamgregp 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

That's a very fair question that.  Small. Flat. More than its fair share of world class climbers.

But then Belgium is also #2 in the FIFA rankings, and they have more than their fare share of top footballers (De Bruyne, Hazard, Courtois, Lukaku to name just a few!).  

Maybe Belgium is just a country that overperforms in all types of sports?   And if that's the case, why!?  Are they just very active?  Is it a cultural thing?  Do they fund sports in schools?  Good summer programmes?  There must be a reason, or a number of them!

1
 Carless 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

Because they all grew up climbing at Freyr which makes the rest of the world seem easy

 jimtitt 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

Because decades ago they were building huge climbing walls in seemingly the grottiest little town.

In reply to CaelanB:

Boring Belgians? au contraire, we are drawn to the high places.

1
In reply to CaelanB:

I asked Seb about this in an interview a while back: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/sebastien_berthe_on_his_summer...

Key sections below:

Belgium isn't really known for its rock climbing, but it's nonetheless produced some very accomplished rock climbers over the years : Chloé Graftiaux, Anak Verhoeven, Nico Favresse, Sean Villanueva O'Driscoll and you, amongst others. What makes Belgian climbers so good, despite the lack of rock? Are they more willing to travel, do you have a good indoor training set-up, etc.?

Well, actually we do have some good rocks. We have a wonderful massif called Freyr. It's not very famous to foreigners but it's the best school to learn how to rock climb! It's a perfect, compact, grey technical limestone; it's very old-school, hard for fingers, demanding for the feet and with tough grades. When you have climbed there, almost every crag feels comfortable and soft. I have spent many hours there and Nico, Sean, Siebe Vanhee, or more ancient heroes such as Claudio Barbier and Arnould Kint have done the same. It was and still is our playground, the place where we set up for bigger goals. Freyr really helps Belgians to face the most technical, hard and long climbs around the world.

Belgium also has a pretty amazing climbing culture and was the first country in Europe (maybe in the world) to have a proper climbing gym (Terre Neuve, born in 1987 in the center of Brussels). I think strong climbers such as Muriel Sarkany were really healthy role models and encouraged young climbers like Chloé, Anak and others to believe they could be among the best climbers in world, despite the fact that they are not living in the most mountainous country.

Chloé Graftiaux's death in 2010 must have had a profound impact on Belgian youth climbers at the time. What is her lasting legacy in Belgium, and for you personally?

I remember very well the day I learned about Chloé's death. It had a huge impact on me as she was really representing what I eventually wanted to become as a climber: an all-rounder. It's crazy to remember how motivated she was for climbing, whatever the discipline. I think her motivation and the way she was approaching climbing have already inspired a few generations of young Belgian climbers and will continue to do so for quite a while.

1
 chris_r 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

It's the diet.

Try a month on chips and mayo, washed down with 12% trappist beer and you too will be climbing 9a.

1
 flaneur 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

A rock-climbing king, Albert the first, nudged Belgian society towards being more supportive of climbing than you might expect in a non-Alpine country.

Interviews with the younger Belgian climbers cite Nico Favresse as inspirational.

 yodadave 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

Hey Caelan, hope you're well!

I think often those from less dramatic geographical/geological places are the most drawn to seek them out.

conversely...

Tommy Caldwell lives very close to where he grew up because he grew up in RMNP

Also, small nations have a great underdog mentality, i saw it lots growing up in Northern Ireland.

 AlanLittle 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

I recall Freyr being the first place where Brits discovered bolt clipping abroad in the late 70s/early 80s, before Buoux then became The Place a few years later

 bouldery bits 02 Aug 2022
In reply to chris_r:

> It's the diet.

> Try a month on chips and mayo, washed down with 12% trappist beer and you too will be climbing 9a.

Don't forget the chocolate!

OP CaelanB 02 Aug 2022
In reply to Natalie Berry - UKC:

That's interesting from Seb. I wasn't aware of the existence of Freyr. Nonetheless, on its own it seems insufficient to explain the abundance of incredible Belgian climbers. Consider, for example, Greece. It has an abundance of world class crags and yet, as far as my knowledge stretches, it doesn't have a proportional abundance of world class climbers. If anything, Greece has a disproportionate lack of monster climbers. This may simply reflect my ignorance, but it seems to me that one amazing crag does not amazing climbers make.

I guess though in Seb's response he also talks about the quality of the Belgian climbing scene as another probable cause for the disproportionately large number of world class Belgian climbers. I expect the combination of good crags like Freyr and the world class community probably accounts for the numbers of good climbers. Though this just shifts the question as far as I'm concerned. Why is it that Belgium has such an amazing climbing scene? 

Taking a punt at answering the question, it seems plausible to me that it's simply sheer force of personality. Guys like Nico and Sean are hardly your run of the mill climbers. They're real personalities, filled with an incredibly infectious psyche and enthusiasm. When you've got guys like that about, maybe it just fires everyone else up? Maybe what's happened in Belgium could have happened in, say, Andorra if similar such characters had happened to have been born there? Just a thought...

 Michael Hood 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

I'm not sure he was describing Freyr as a quality crag, more that its qualities help make you a better climber. IIRC, from reading about the place in the 80s, it was polished even back then to the extent of making Avon sea walls feel like the home of friction 😁 (my memory may be faulty, surely there's somebody on UKC who's actually been there)

 jimtitt 02 Aug 2022
In reply to Michael Hood:

It's ok, just need a bit of technique (I learnt to climb in the Avon Gorge)

 GrahamD 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

It's a bit of a myth that Belgium is flat.

 Stoney Boy 02 Aug 2022
In reply to AlanLittle:

Met one of the Freyr lads in Sardinia a few years ago (may have wrote the guide for Ulassai) Reeled off a few routes we did that had seemed totally desperate at the time....thankfully he confirmed that they were indeed desperate and usually undergraded. 

Also remember Namur being a pretty interesting rown with good beer and a lot of history (The Panther Tank at the crossroads being pretty cool) just up the road.

 remus Global Crag Moderator 02 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

Just to add to the list of Belgian wads, Simon Lorenzi is belgian and made the first ascent of Soudain Seul (8C+/9A) in font, plus lots of other hard boulders to his name.

 Mick Ward 03 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

> That's interesting from Seb. I wasn't aware of the existence of Freyr. Nonetheless, on its own it seems insufficient to explain the abundance of incredible Belgian climbers.

I suspect that Jim Titt gave the answer above:

'Because decades ago they were building huge climbing walls in seemingly the grottiest little town.'

You get a grassroots of strong climbers (however limited). But some go after bigger horizons  - such as Honnold and Caldwell in the US. 

> Taking a punt at answering the question, it seems plausible to me that it's simply sheer force of personality. Guys like Nico and Sean are hardly your run of the mill climbers. They're real personalities, filled with an incredibly infectious psyche and enthusiasm. When you've got guys like that about, maybe it just fires everyone else up? 

Agree, they do seem to be lively personalities. But Irish climbing, for instance, also had real personalities (though perhaps not as inspiring?) Nevertheless standards lagged until walls arrived. And then they shot up. 

Mick 

In reply to chris_r:

> It's the diet.

> Try a month on chips and mayo, washed down with 12% trappist beer and you too will be climbing 9a.

That's a training schedule I can get behind. I'll let you all know how it works out.

In reply to jimtitt:

Which country did Paul and Jerry (and Jim?) visit when they were researching setting up the Foundry? Belgium of course.

 mondite 03 Aug 2022
In reply to Mick Ward:

> 'Because decades ago they were building huge climbing walls in seemingly the grottiest little town.'

Doesnt that just move the question back a bit? Since to be building those walls there has to have been a demand for them.

 jimtitt 03 Aug 2022
In reply to mondite:

The first climbing wall in the world was built in Belgium by King Leopold 111 in 1937, it still exists.

 Mick Ward 03 Aug 2022
In reply to mondite:

But the demand/intention(??) might just have been for recreation, not climbing per se?

Graeme and I had a mate called Ian Vincent, now sadly deceased. In the early '90s, he did a comp in Holland. Despite being a superb climber (once came joint 5th - along with Edlinger, now always sadly gone from us - in a world championship final) he was having an off-day. So he quickly got kicked out. 

He told me that he'd gone to four other climbing walls in the same area, all of which he claimed were as good as, if not better than The Foundry, which was then far and away the best in the UK. He said there were lots of people at them. I asked what kind of people. He said it seemed to be mostly teenage girls, climbing with their mates (presumably no kind of mountaineering/climbing background?) 

Now obviously this is just one tiny example from long ago. But (different times, I accept) it's kind of what's happening now with bouldering walls - another type of gym??

So maybe general recreational facilities beget more climbing walls, beget lots of strong indoor climbers, beget some good outdoor climbers, beget a few world-class hard-core trad climbers? And sure, comps will publicise things. 

All speculative, I know. But what I do know is that without the power you don't ever get to be world-class. And power tends to start inside. 

Mick

1
In reply to jimtitt:

The one in the DAV library in Munich might be older.

 Holdtickler 03 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

Some awesome Belgian comp climbers too, Chloe Caulier for example. As others have pointed out Belgium isn't all flat, the Ardenne has some fun bits. I guess Font isn't all that far down the road too.

 C Witter 03 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

It's not entirely sufficient in itself as an explanation, but mountaineering - the valorisation of "conquering" mountains; the act of mapping and exploring; nationalist competition - was intrinsically bound up with colonialism. Britain, France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Japan and the US all valued mountaineering throughout the 20th century as an expression of imperial power, nationalist strength, ingenuity, right to conquest, etc. They continue to be nations with relatively high GDP, holiday time, surplus wealth,  valorisation of travel, "adventures" and a vision of nature as something simultaneously precious and as a worthy opponent. This is just a very brief outline of a cultural ideology that has shaped both our attitude to the outdoors and the coded racial politics of these activities.

 jimtitt 03 Aug 2022
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> The one in the DAV library in Munich might be older.

The building was completely destroyed in the war and took until 1996 to be rebuilt and opened so probably not.

In reply to jimtitt:

A quick google says that the rebuild started in 1993 and the wooden climbing wall is definately older than that so it must have been moved from somewhere else. I will ask  my DAV friends if they know the history.

 Carless 03 Aug 2022

Having been in Belgium almost 30 years, I can address some of the points raised

I’d be the first to admit that some of Freyr is very polished but search a bit more and you will find. I could point you at a great 5b not polished at all. Having said that, it’s best from 6a up.

I’ve been saying since 2005 that I’ll lead Freyr 7a again – one of these days…  In the intervening period I’ve onsighted 7a+ in Kaly  

Belclimb.be lists over 200 crags though lots small and/or banned. But there’s loads of good crags apart from Freyr http://en.belclimb.be/home_rock_climbing.asp , https://www.comfort-zone.be/

Eg. I did some great routes at Dave yesterday evening followed by chips and beer in Namur

I think Simon Lorenzi did Belgium’s first 9a last year at a crag I’ve never been to as the warmup is min (Belgian) 7b

All Belgian climbers I’ve met have been very approachable and great fun. Eg. Nico & Sean are willing to chat to anyone and it was very interesting discussing her hatred of speed climbing with Anak

20+ years ago I was having a beer with Arnould t’Kint in Le Chamonix (unfortunately burnt down – greatly missed) and he said he hardly climbs anymore but could probably still onsight 8a

Good luck with the beer & chips training schedule. I’ll be very interested to hear how it goes

 jimtitt 03 Aug 2022
In reply to Carless:

Dave was probably my favorite crag there, spent a lot of time there but we visited endless small crags as well just for the fun of it. The chip shop in Namur was my regular stop, small but the prettiest girls! Okay that was 20 years ago but when you live in Boom they were the first you met going south that weren't kinda chunky

And the best motocross track in the world with Belgian chips and beer!!!

The beer (a lot) and chips (plenty) diet made no difference, I went there from the Frankenjura. I even thought the grading at places like Beez (sp?) was soft.

Post edited at 16:21
3
 ChrisBrooke 03 Aug 2022
In reply to CaelanB:

I climbed a bit in Freyr years ago when I lived in the Netherlands (2008/9). Also Dave, Mozet, and some others that escape me now. In the low grades I was climbing then it was definitely a polished nightmare, so I can imagine it producing strong and technical climbers.


In relation to the OP, I'd have thought it was just a function of how popular the sport is in the country. 'Top climbers' are genetic outliers. Assuming genetic outliers are evenly distributed across national populations (I'm 100% sure they're not, and that there will be environmental influences and genetic inheritances that might incline some populations (in the Darwinian sense) towards climbing proficiency more than others, but that's getting a bit deep...) what you need is the confluence of 'genetic outlier' and 'sport participation'. The more sport participation there is the more chance there is of a genetic outlier being discovered/discovering their proficiency in climbing.

We expect that in a country like the USA: the chance that genetic outliers will stumble across climbing to produce a cohort of high-performers is greater when the population is 330m (or whatever), even with low % participation levels. Presumably Belgium has a high participation level to be able to produce this high proportion of high-performers, from a population of ~12m. 

Here endeth the pointing out of the bleedin' obvious.

Post edited at 16:19
 Carless 04 Aug 2022
In reply to jimtitt:

Yep, I always seem to have a hard time in the Frankenjura

I remember one time at the roadside crag with names like Dampfhammer. We were struggling on something about f6b and this old guy arrived with 2 young women in tow and proceeds to diagonally walk up the massively overhanging bit and then nonchalantly downclimb it

Apparently he was a local known for it


New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...