UKH

Has anyone got recent experience with taking quickdraws on eurostar? I'm an expat who resides in France, but I've been stuck in the UK since seeing my family for Christmas. I've managed to book trains to get me back to my home in france as i could not find any appropriate flights due to covid.

Problem is I've just noticed that the euro star website mentions ' ice axes and other climbing and mountaineering equipment,' in it's list of banned luggage. I'm hoping this really only relates to sharp  stuff, ice axes, crampons, ice screws ect. I'm traveling with 30 quickdraws and a few locking carabiners. I really don't want to have to leave it in the UK as i've just checked the postage rules and id have to pay import tax to post it to france due to brexit. Despite the fact i already on it.

Has anyone brought quickdraws or a rope, general sport climbing stuff on the eurostar and it been fine?

This thread might be useful

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/expedition+alpine/ice_climbing_by_eurosta...

Thanks, I've checked the previous threads, but its mostly talk about ice axes / other pointy mountaineering equipment. I'm wondering about carabiners / quickdraws

My experience (though a few years ago as a regular Eurostar traveller) is that Karibiners are not possible on Eurostar.

However...,  the France side seems very hot on checking but the UK side is very relaxed. 

so you might be ok going the UK to France If you have someone dropping you off at euro star you can see if they will wait and take your climbing gear back in the worst case that you dont get it on the train.

The official answer, however, is no! 

I took q/d's on a flight to France once in hand luggage (to keep weight out of my main bag) - no problem on the way out but security thought I might use them as knuckle dusters on the way back

How about posting your gear home? No risk of loss then. 

It isn't that recent (about 2014 I think), but yes I have (a full set of climbing gear) and it was fine.  Eurostar care about pointy stuff and bombs.  It's probably best described as "like airport security was before 9/11".

Having said that maybe I was lucky:

https://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/travel-info/travel-planning/luggage/sports-a...

"If you’re travelling with any of these items, you’ll need to contact Eurodespatch, our registered luggage service: ice axes and other climbing and mountaineering equipment, javelins, spears and spear guns, crossbows, crossbow bolts, longbows, longbow arrows and starting pistols, swords or starting pistols. Keep in mind that these are all subject to approval and security checks."

The risk is rather different between aircraft and trains - you're hardly going to be able to hijack a Eurostar using a couple of krabs and fly it to Syria, or whatever the classic used to be.  (Hello security services, I trust you are finding this thread adequately boring).

However, E* seem to be a law unto themselves, changing the rules every 5 minutes.  This means I'd choose to fly instead if possible as you can check a bag and avoid the problems.

As always, the answer is here is profile.  Be the nicest, most mild-mannered person on the planet, but if you're getting nowhere ask to see their supervisor, again as Mr Reasonable.

The wording is clear under "Dangerous sports equipment"

"If you’re travelling with any of these items, you’ll need to contact Eurodespatch, our registered luggage service: ice axes and other climbing and mountaineering equipment, javelins, spears and spear guns, crossbows, crossbow bolts, longbows, longbow arrows and starting pistols, swords or starting pistols. Keep in mind that these are all subject to approval and security checks."

In no way is a krab sharp, pointed or capable of firing a projectile or inherently dangerous, with 'dangerous' being the operative word.  It has nothing in common with the other articles listed.  It bears a passing resemblance to a knuckle duster - but those are a) illegal and b) referred to only in a pictogram.  It also bears no resemblance to DIY tools, hammers etc.  The more climbing clatch you have, the weaker the argument that it is 'intended' as a weapon. If you want the latter, a laptop battery is a fine device, or a good 'ole boys belt buckle.

I'd pack them well, at the bottom of your luggage.  

I've never understood what makes the Eurostar so vulnerable compared to any other non-stop service.  So what if it's in a tunnel for some of the time.  You spend longer in a tunnel on the Tube to get to the wretched thing

It dates back to the IRA and it being a high profile target.  But would *you* sign off removing the security?

FWIW, the Delhi Metro has airport style security.  Wouldn't be practical on the Tube as things stand, which is probably the only reason it doesn't.  When tech gets to the point you can do it as people walk past the ticket barriers I'm sure it will.

Oh...talking of import tax, I don't think that would differ between posting it and taking it yourself on the train, would it?

I've done this with climbing gear a few times, although again, not for a couple of years, and not had a problem. I once had the junior x-ray operator in Brussels stop me so he could ask his supervisor what the "little metal sticks" in my luggage were and whether he should be worried about them, and she got me to unpack them and show them to him so he'd see what they were and that they weren't a risk.

On the other hand, it sounds like I might have got lucky...

" ... ice axes and other climbing and mountaineering equipment"

That would be a clear indication to me that I would risk having to hand them over. I would just post them to your address in France, and relax. If they don't show up you can always use it as an excuse to upgrade them  

Or sell them here, now, and buy new ones in France (when they are likely cheaper anyway?)/

liable for import duties, which with about 800gbp of gear comes to a fair whack. I may be able to get them import exempt but the info isn't really available online so I'm waiting to call French import authorities tomorrow morning before my train. 

Either that or leave them with my family in the UK and hope to be able to fly home to see them in the summer. But it's a long time to be without my gear.

weirdly it does, or at least from my googling this evening i seems that way. if the goods arrive separately to you then import rules apply. 

We have been on Eurostar to France with a full trad rack and ropes several times in the last few years and had no issues at all - they never batted an eyelid either way through the security checks. Obviously can’t guarantee they are like that every time but for us it always has been fine.  Only caveat is the last time was just before lockdown number one so don’t know if Covid has changed things.

Not sure thats correct as the restriction on ice axes, etc wasn't there when the Eurostar started in the late 90s - its a fairly recent restriction which I've never understood

I mean it is pretty understandable though isn't it? Albeit annoying for legitimate users.

It might be to do with the knife attacks on Thalys of about 10 years ago.

Security in some form (to catch anyone trying to take a bomb on) has been there since it opened, though.

You travelled from France to the U.K. at Christmas to see your family?

Lucky you - I’ve not seen mine for 12 months and we all live in the U.K..... 

With his climbing gear, no less. Fetch the flaming torches and pitchforks!

I hadn't considered import duties, I was of the impression it was old gear from your home in France that you had brought with you. Would the duty nor apply to the second hand value, which would likely be much lower? 

Might be best to write the gear off, leave it with your family as a UK rack and buy a new French rack on return. No need to worry about transporting gear from France to UK then. Less hassle on aircraft, euros tar etc

You could take the risk of arguing that quickdraws are not solely "mountaineering equipment", Maybe separate the dogbones/extenders and just have a load of snapgate carbiners for quick connection of all sorts of things. Hammocks etc. I use them a fair bit in freediving, which is not a mountaineering sport. 

This runs the risk of making you look like a pedantic troublemaker at security though.