UKH

Hey folks,

Im organising a stag do in N Wales.. a day of scrambling and a day with a paid activity that isn't as weather dependent such as coasteering or gorge scrambling..

On the scrambling day, plan to head up Tryfan N Ridge, and scramble down the east face which I'd like to include a 50m abseil. Plan is to take two half ropes and get the lads on it. I'll give them a fireman's belay from the bottom.

Just wondering which gully do the UKC hive think would be best? 

Cheers

FYI, I'm an experienced rock climber and confident in setting up abs etc. May also take a single in which someone can top belay if required.

We did the underground via ferrata at that place that has the big zip wires a few years back.  I was a bit dismissive at first but we had a fantastic time all while it was pouring with rain outside.

good luck

Toby

I abseiled down one of the gullies in the dark in retreat once. Might have been the one near Munich Climb, not sure. 

Went over a small overhang and pulled a block off above me. Thought I'd severed the rope but instead just gashed my leg. 

I don't recommend that gully. 

I used the descent route of N Gully followed by Little Gully last summer - singularly not impressed, really needs to be totally dry to be an ok experience as a descent. No idea what it'd be like as an abseil.

Tryfan stag do for people who aren't experienced already, sounds like a well meant plan doomed to fail. Go below is reopening, perfect for a stag, get a booking in quick before they get booked up https://www.go-below.co.uk/video_load.asp?src=11

Edit: a better link here https://www.go-below.co.uk/Ultimate-Xtreme.asp

OK, I was just wondering, have "the lads" abseiled or climbed before?

How about doing an abseil on one of the smaller crags lower down when you get down. 

You might be an experienced climber but I wouldn't fancy the idea of leading a bunch of inexperienced, excitable blokes down the east face of tryfan unless I had scoped out a good route in advance.

In fact I wouldn't fancy it even then.

Have you been up this ridge before? I wouldn't take an inexperienced party up there as you describe. it's potentially hazardous. I hope you are okay. 

I had my stag do around Capel Curig (a few years back). My friends ranged from solid E4 leaders to those who get worried climbing stairs without a handrail. I considered a day's scrambling but decided it would be too much for some of them.With hindsight this was the right choice.  Some of them also didn't own decent boots or waterproof gear.

Instead I arranged a day out with:

 http://www.go-below.co.uk/

It was excellent, the level of challenge was set perfectly and he made sure that I was the victim of all the intimidating sections, so the others got a good laugh at my expense without being so far out of their comfort zones that they didn't have fun. 

I won't provide advice on which café to visit for breakfast the next day. For some reason I couldn't keep my full English down.

This is what I was talking about.  Great fun!

Cheers

Toby

Are you planning to down climb after the group ab? Or leaving tat insitu? Having done a few routes on the East Face it doesn't feel steep enough for a single clean ab, also not sure how well the ropes would pull or how easy it would be to locate desired spot from the top.  Keep it simple with a scramble if still keen but scrap the ab

Its probably been said above (too lazy to scroll) but even with a firemans brake from below, can you guarantee every one of your party is going to thread their abseil/belay device correctly? If you had another experienced person at the top, this of course would make a world of difference.

edit: FWIW I've nothing against the rest of your plan. Sounds like what I'd do on my stag, if covid ever lets me have one!

Give Rachel and George a call at: https://www.snowdoniaadventureactivities.co.uk/index.html

and get on a canyon trip, you'll all have a blast and no logistics etc for you to worry about.

My advice is take the lads somewhere else away from the outdoors and ideally don't bother the rest of us with your stag do.

Ab on Tryfan Bach (little tryfan, if you have supervision both top and bottom like already said) and only if you are there early enough to keep out of the way of others and walk/scramble the North ridge.

Don't forget to do everything really early because parking isn't going to be how you might remember it from the past!

I went on a stag do with novices which included Tryfan N ridge once and it went really well, but we just walked off. 

I'd concur with whoever recommended scouting or an appropriate ab line which is simple for you. 

Just to add to what others have said, the scramble itself should be fine, both mountaineering clubs I was a member of would take complete novices up it typically as their first outing. It was in fact my second ever scramble (first being Crib Goch the day before). An abseil from up there however has every ingredient in the recipe for an epic, unless you get multiple competent people to help you out. You being at the bottom and novices being at the top would be problematic in terms of safety.

My views are similar to those above.

The scramble up the north ridge should be fine in good conditions (maybe take a short confidence rope in case someone gets nervous or the weather turns unexpectedly). There is no way I would be abseiling in those loose east face gullies: part of the crux of the main gully descent is avoiding knocking off loose rock.... doing that on multiple steps where the rope tension is difficult to maintain is a recipe for a disaster (from ankle breaking drops due to any slack or rocks knocked down on those below). 

If Tryfan Fach is used for the abseil, do it between the lines of the rock climbs, as it's super popular.

You really don't want the hassle of trying to keep them alive on steep ground. It will dent any enjoyment for you. If you don't know the routes intimately and aren't accustomed to leading novices on steep ground on a regular basis, it'll take all the fun out of it and potentially be dangerous.

Plan the day, use an outside agency to take you somewhere fun, underground, abseiling, coasteering etc.. but be the choreographer not the one responsible for safety. Making sure everyone leaves the cafe on time to comfortably get to the venue on time, etc... folk have the right clothes, food, water..  help them get harnesses on... you can guarantee some will be like a fish out of water and need some guidance to enjoy the weekend overall. 

I would also recommend against your descent plan. Getting down the east face is quite complex even for an experienced party and there'd be a lot of potential for things to go horribly wrong. There are about a million better places for an group abseil experience. Trying to manage a group of novice abseilers may be more involved than you think, judging by your plan to give them a fireman's 'belay'.

I'd agree with what others have said and spring for an MIA who has experience of leading novices on this kind of ground.  If you split the cost between you all it won't be much, it's a small cost for the added safety, and you'll be able to enjoy yourself more on the day as it won't all be on your head.

I arranged a stag for my mates a while back and am very glad I got some professionals to sort everything for us.  Of course when they found out I fancied myself as a climber they put the pressure on for me to be the one who completed the things that others couldn't but it was all good friendly fun!

Another vote for Go Below for your paid activity. We had great fun and learned some interesting history along the way. We were a mixed group from hard (in our own heads) climbers to complete novices.

I don't know what you're planning for the evening but we had a good night out on the beer in Bangor. If you find yourself starting off in the Spoons, don't expect to be the only party waving inflatable penises - or, in our case, featuring the groom dressed as a life-size one.

Good advice. But (to OP) don't be surprised if you can't find an MIA who's willing to take a stag group down the east face of Tryfan. I wouldn't. 

Jeez but you're a miserable b@stard!  Hats - off though, I'll use you as a personal inspiration

Taking a large group of novices abseiling on a random Tryfan gully sounds like a good plan if you need to reduce numbers at the wedding.  Assuming you want to keep everyone alive I'd just scrap the abseil and stick to the North ridge scramble.  If you really want to abseil you could go to one of the smaller roadside crags (Tryfan Fach or Caseg Fraith) after you've done the North ridge.

Aye, to be honest I was thinking the MIA would have a better suggestion.  A local one have exactly the best scramble and abseil in mind that they've used dozens of times before for other stag groups

yes, thinking back to a strange play on the BBC many years ago, I was just thinking that going to the Lakes to do a World War 2 battle reanactment with live ammunition might be a similar format for a stag do ...

I'd say this depends heavily on the size of your group. Could work for a very small group - not for a large group.

What are you going to do if one of the party gets stuck/panics 1/2 way down? You'd really need to be setting up a proper, releasable abseil with safety rope and need at least one other competent person to help, I'd say. You're also going to need a lot of harnesses and descenders, unless you're pulling them up again.

There are better options suggested on here for that part, at least.

I once saw an instructor set up an abseil somewhere up Pen-y-Pass - all students pre-attached to rope with Fig-8s and him at the bottom. As each one finished, the release of tension in the rope allowed the next one to start. You do need a lot of kit and a friendly edge to make this work, though. I also remember I didn't like the look of the single wire it was all apparently attached to!

As best man I’ve take a stag group up the north ridge before. If everyone is reasonably fit it makes a good morning activity, we went go karting in the afternoon in Caernarfon for example.
 

The scramble and abseil idea sounds good in theory, but there aren’t that many spots where it would be easy to do it with a group safely. It would be useful to know how many people you are expecting so we can think about the options more. 
 

If do you decide you might like an instructor or have any logistical questions shoot me a message (I’m an MIA/MCI).

Thank you for your opinion gravy. The outdoors is for us all. So if you see a group of 'lads' in the middle of Sept then please by all means give us a wave! 

Haha this is actually what my fiancee is doing, the canyon trip! I didn't want to copy.

Think I'll give the go-below a call. Cheers for the recommendation.

Thank you for all the advice guys. Think I'll stick to a N Ridge scramble and an activity on the second day (Coasteering or go-below).

PS. Yes, I've been up the N Ridge half a dozen times,the horseshoe a couple of times, and descended it more after topping out the E face routes. The group of 'lads' are pretty fit so lets see, an additional 4o f the 12 are experienced multipitch climbers so I had planned to have a couple up top and a couple below.

Rightly said though, choreographing the ab may take away from the day. I'll get a scramble and a paid activity such as the ones were suggested.

Cheers UKC hive! 

Have fun! Should be a good day out, can always nip up bristly ridge and down y gribin too if you’re all still have fun too! 

Yes, I'm sure N ridge scramble is not a bad idea in reasonable weather for a stag do (I've taken my own kids up the N ridge without bypassing the route when they were quite young, in good weather)- it's the idea of making it rather less safe in descent than it need be.

Most of the activity providers who do canyoning also will run an abseil for you. The canyons round here also have some lowers/abseils in them, plus only take a couple of hours, so you could easily tag an afternoon abseil onto the day if you wanted. 

I personally wouldn't take a booking for a stag group wanting to descend the East face, far too much hazard there as everyone else has said. 

Snakes ladders tunnels and chains. Fun for all the family. Not bad enough to need ropes, except the chain and you can skip that. Couple of abseils. Plus Wales best beer point at the end. If you're bell ringing make sure to stack the abseils of you're taking newbies because you can't sorry thier issues from the bottom. 

JohnBson is a genius, ideal combo, Go Below for "indoors" and "Snakes, ladders and Tunnels" https://davetalbot.net/snakes-and-ladders for an all weather capable outdoors

On the "snake" (Chain) if you have a 60m rope it's just long enough to go from a climber at bottom - through a microtraxion at top (or similar) - back down in a loop with a pulley to clip to "climber" and you can haul them up with a 3:1 pulley if there is someone who physically can't climb, I've done that for someone myself      Just be careful to look after non climbers stepping round the fallen block at the end of the tunnel (Hades) on route to the snake