/ The great outdoors versus a bouldering wall

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neilh 16 Aug 2019

Last night I want to the Hangar, Liverpool as a change. Nice sunny evening, the consensus being although it had been wet all day it was better going to a bouldering wall.Still not sure it was the right decison, but there you go.

Anyway. My god was it busy ( despite the Uni's being on their summer break). Every concievable space occupied.

Usually I see people I know etc as I have been climbing a long time..This time apart from the team I was with there was 1 person.

Whats happened to the great outdoors with the millenials etc. Is it all now hot sweaty bouledring walls no matter the weather? This was Liverpool , hardly London with no local crags etc.

A reflection of modern climbing? There were some impressively flexible people.

By the way I still prefer the Depot

25
deacondeacon 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

"WHY IS EVERYONE CLIMBING INDOORS ON A LOVELY EVENING!!"

(while climbing indoors on a lovely evening)

Lol

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neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to deacondeacon:

I know. Although I did highlight why we were not outside And there were mutterings about having made the wrong decision.

Post edited at 10:58
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mrphilipoldham 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Yes it was the wrong decision, plenty of dry rock around Lancs and the Peak yesterday afternoon and it was a beautiful evening. 

neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

I find it fascinating the way climbing has evolved into those who get outside and those who go indoors only.

It was such a stark difference. Usually just passes me by, but  this time the gap was mindboggling.

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mrphilipoldham 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Yes a partner of mine took his two kids indoor the other week for the first time in a long time.. he was quite surprised at the 'attitude' of a lot of the climbers. Not necessarily unpleasant, but certainly different. 

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neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Did not notice that.There again I was not with children.

steveriley 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

I had a look at Pex on Tuesday night. Despite the best efforts of the Friends of Pex group, the old lady is looking a touch neglected. Pisa Wall chalked, elsewhere you could have been new routing. It's just different  - a good proportion of indoor folk are a. newish, b. indoor only and c. far too strong! That's all fine of course, it is what it is.

C Witter 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Has it been busy indoors? It's been lovely and quiet outside...

Christheclimber 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

> Last night I want to the Hangar, Liverpool as a change. Nice sunny evening, the consensus being although it had been wet all day it was better going to a bouldering wall.Still not sure it was the right decison, but there you go.

Think it was the wrong decision Neil; I was out bouldering on the grit in Yorkshire yesterday and although it was raining first thing it soon dried out. 

There is definitely a new breed of climbers who only climb indoors and it always surprises me that they aren’t interested in climbing on the real thing!

Si Witcher 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Best not to climb on merseyside sandstone just after rain, the rock is softer and more fragile. If you discount the local sandstone then you'd have to drive a lot further than the Hangar from Liverpool to get to NE Wales limestone, or Lancs grit.

Weather aside, indoor and outdoors are different disciplines. Some do both, some don't. If you don't understand then you may be too old...

4
galpinos 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Manc Depot was rammed too. I didn't get there till 8pm (hence indoors, not out) but i think the combo of Tinder night plus new blues and blacks (covering V1 to V4 in "Depot Grades") broadcasted on social media were factors.

Ramblin dave 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Christheclimber:

> There is definitely a new breed of climbers who only climb indoors and it always surprises me that they aren’t interested in climbing on the real thing!

But this has always been a thing. I know slightly older climbers who are still baffled by a generation who are happy to climb on grit or in North Wales but don't have any particular interest in going to the Alps. And presumably the generation before them thought they were weird for not having ambitions in the Greater Ranges. The history of climbing is full of things that started as "good practice when you can't get on The Real Thing" and then turned out to be quite fun and become popular as ends in themselves...

neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Si Witcher:

I am more than aware of the difference .

It was just such a stunning example. There seemed to be barely any one over the age of 30( who were probably all outdoors).

neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Ramblin dave:

I agree with that, although alot of the attraction was of course being outdoors in the fresh air.Seen as a great escape form office, warehouse, factory etc.

neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to galpinos:

Depot does seem to be able to absorb larger numbers.

Lemony 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

My experience is that people are far more aware of the issues around damp rock than they were a few years ago and far more willing to call off trips out that might be damaging to the rock. No idea what the weather in Merseyside has been like but if it’s been at all like here there’s no way I’d be climbing on anything i know of in the immediate area.

whenever I hear that someone got out between rain and amazingly found dry rock, my assumption would be that the rock was only superficially dry.

Will Hunt 16 Aug 2019
In reply to galpinos:

> Manc Depot was rammed too. I didn't get there till 8pm (hence indoors, not out) but i think the combo of Tinder night plus new blues and blacks (covering V1 to V4 in "Depot Grades") broadcasted on social media were factors.

What's Tinder night?!

Lemony 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Also, we’re talking about the peak from Liverpool, that must be getting on for 3 hours drivIng there and back. I can totally understand why people would think that’s unreasonable.

Coel Hellier 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Lemony:

> Also, we’re talking about the peak from Liverpool, that must be getting on for 3 hours drivIng there and back. I can totally understand why people would think that’s unreasonable.

Yes, it's noticeable that travelling a lot to climb is still considered macho in the climbing world, even though we are also all fans of Greta Thunberg. 

I'm guilty myself, though I have long tried to ensure that travelling time is much less than at-the-crag time. 

wbo2 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh: A lot of people are going to be thinking that it's a better use of time to train indoors and actually get some climbing done than spending most of the evening driving around to do a couple of routes. 

neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to wbo2:

Saw very few people training, just enjoying themselves.Not sure you can train when a place is so packed.

1
teh_mark 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Christheclimber:

> There is definitely a new breed of climbers who only climb indoors and it always surprises me that they aren’t interested in climbing on the real thing!

Up in grit country, that may well be because they'll go from cruising V8 and 7b indoors to being schooled on V0 and v. diff on their local crags...

;)

1
Hat Dude 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

The new Warwick Uni wall is doing it's bit to get people climbing outdoors ;-)

AMorris 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

> Whats happened to the great outdoors with the millenials etc.

> There seemed to be barely any one over the age of 30( who were probably all outdoors).

I can't remember the last time I last saw a group of boomers digging out the mats and heading off to the cave, or up to sheep pens. I do however recall a number of occasions where I have seen them janging their way up to Dinas mot, laden with hexes, to shuffle up Direct Route for the 20th time. Should I start a thread asking what happened to boomers trying hard?

Perhaps this has more to do with a generational gap in how you choose to enjoy your climbing rather than simply "millenials dont like going outdoors like us real rock climbers" as the implication was in your post ;)

It's also worth noting that, as I remember it, the indoor training mindset was invented by your generation, not ours.

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neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Hat Dude:

I will tell that to my daughter who is going to have to wait until the winter/term months for me to visit

neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to AMorris:

Please, give me credit for not using hexes ( I do not have them on my rack) and having on sight soloed the Direct.

No implication on generational gap, just fascinated by fresh air v  indoor.

Post edited at 14:04
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ChrisBrooke 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Now that I live in Sheffield and get out on the grit at least a couple of times a week, year round, I've stopped going to walls at all for the first time in about 20 years. I guess it means I'm not as strong as I could be if I 'trained' indoors, but I'm either recovering from a grit session, or saving myself for the next one so would rather not. All depends where you live I suppose. I did love going to the Works to climb, and I think indoor bouldering is a lot of fun, and a great workout, but I just can't fit it in anymore. 

steveriley 16 Aug 2019
In reply to teh_mark:

> Up in grit country, that may well be because they'll go from cruising V8 and 7b indoors to being schooled on V0 and v. diff on their local crags...

Equally true on sandstone - I write as a recently and regularly schooled. Also that guide is not known for generous grades ;-)

teh_mark 16 Aug 2019
In reply to steveriley:

I was at Plantation a few months ago (having finally bought a bouldering mat after ten years of stubborn refusal). We met a couple of guys on the path up who were without a guideobok, and lent them ours. We got talking and it transpired it was their first time bouldering on real rock.

'Yeah, this problem looks nice to warm up on. It's only V4' was followed very quickly by 'man this is really hard! It doesn't feel like V4 at all! V4 is a non-grade for me usually'.

Gave me a good chuckle as I consistently fell off a V2 around the corner.

ChrisBrooke 16 Aug 2019
In reply to teh_mark:

Ha! I could point them at a few good 'non-grade' 6Bs in the Peak

Lemony 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Coel Hellier:

Yup, I regularly annoy partners by refusing to drive from Newcastle to the Dales or south Lakes for a day's climbing. I just can't justify 4-5 hours of driving to myself for a day's entertainment.

teh_mark 16 Aug 2019
In reply to ChrisBrooke:

Kudos to them for wanting to get out in all fairness - I hope that dit doesn't come across as elitist-sounding. It was great seeing people venturing outside for the first time and actually rock climbing. I don't think indoor walls do anyone any favours with their abuse of bouldering grades either. I can consistently flash a grade at all of my local walls that I can barely get off the ground on at the crag.

Post edited at 14:26
ChrisBrooke 16 Aug 2019
In reply to teh_mark:

Not elitist, it's just quite funny I think it's good to be humbled out of real rock. I certainly am most times I go out!

derryclimbs 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

As the two piece band Slaves sang at a recent festival I went to - "you're not stuck in traffic, you ARE traffic" 

seems pertinent.

Chris H 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

The outdoors is cold, wet, no café, no lycra @rses, routes are hardly ever re-set,  time consuming to get to, increases global warming, litter and erosion. I'm surprised anyone ever goes outside TBH.

Will Hunt 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Please can we focus on what's really important here? What is Tinder night at the Manc wall? It sounds fascinating.

Qwerty2019 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Had a good read of this thread and always feel on the defensive when people start judging others for having a preference.  Does one way have to be measured against the other?

Anyhow, defensive feelings aside I haven't seen one of the MAIN reasons mentioned on here yet for why my daughter doesn't go outdoors climbing.  It's all just too much faff.  The drive, the prep, the setup, the talk, the climb, the wait, the weather, the midges, the dog shit, the bushes, the trees etc etc etc. In the time it takes some climbers to register a 20m climb my daughter can easily rack up 200m in a session.

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neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to derryclimbs:

Rather be climbing then stuck in another festival crowd dropping litter everywhere, but I like the sentiment.

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neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Qwerty2019:

As I said before, just fascinated in the outdoors v indoor sceario, There is no need to get defensive, as clearly everyone enjoys themselves either way.

neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Will Hunt:

I htink most Walls have  a tinder nights these day...get with it......

jpicksley 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

What's wrong with hexes? I really like them. Especially the red one.

steveriley 16 Aug 2019
In reply to jpicksley:

I have recently gotten my hexes out of the loft and have found them almost as exciting as the new Camalot I'd managed to place on every route I lead until recently. 

steveriley 16 Aug 2019
In reply to teh_mark:

> 'Yeah, this problem looks nice to warm up on. It's only V4' was followed very quickly by 'man this is really hard! It doesn't feel like V4 at all!

Said every new boulderer ever! Actually there's a keen bunch at my local wall I see outside now. Damn, they're getting the hang of things quickly and pushing the grades. Brilliant to see a new generation getting the bug for outside ...as I shamble along on my plateau with occasional flukey spikes

neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to jpicksley:

Personal choice, anywaythat is the subject of another post.lol.

jpicksley 16 Aug 2019
In reply to steveriley:

I find that I never feel quite as relaxed on a climb as when I've just placed a really solid hex. They just look right. They are a thing of beauty and long may they be sold in shops and on the internet. I've recently tried a friends hexes on wires but I think I prefer my hexes on slings. I like the colour coordination as well. Hope you're well, Steve.

Post edited at 16:01
jpicksley 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Ahhh, I'm glad it's a choice thing. I thought for a minute I'd committed some hideous climbing faux-pas and should give up and move on.

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Robertostallioni 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Will Hunt:

First rule of Tinder night...

Michael Hood 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

> I am more than aware of the difference .

> It was just such a stunning example. There seemed to be barely any one over the age of 30( who were probably all outdoors).


I was at Rock Over in Manchester last night and I'm definitely over 30 try x2.

<10 mins drive from home so overall time (there, climbing, back) much less, and wasn't sure that anywhere I might want to go would be dry after the previous rain.

When I was 30 (long time ago ), I would have still got on the grit in those conditions and many was the time that I'd chance it on a showery summer evening even with a 1+ hour journey each way.

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steveriley 16 Aug 2019
In reply to jpicksley:

My own hexes date from a time when you were trusted to buy them loose, buy a separate piece of rope and not tie a death knot. There's probably a reason they were retired to be fair. All good thanks James and hope the new accent is coming along nicely.

neilh 16 Aug 2019
In reply to Michael Hood:

Like me then. But Warrington is my local wall.

Flinticus 16 Aug 2019
In reply to neilh:

Be glad. Do you want to queue to get on your outdoor routes? Hunt for parking? Have access denied because of incidents? (More) rubbish?

I don't climb outside but I camp and walk and if I don't meet anyone else I count that a blessing!


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