Soft touch HVS in North Wales

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I want to crack into HVS, has anyone got any recommendations of good routes that are either low in the grade or pretty safe?

 C Witter 26 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

A brilliant climb: Superdirect (HVS 5a)

Very well protected 1st pitch, with enjoyable 4c crack climbing. Second pitch has one awkward move off a ledge, but is otherwise straightforward. Third pitch is a gloriously exposed 5a romp - and not as tricky as it seems.

pasbury 26 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Brant Direct is a good one.

My first.

Post edited at 23:51
6
 Pay Attention 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

girdle traverse carreg hyll drem

 Misha 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

A Dream of White Horses

Merlin Direct

Scratch Arête 

3
 deacondeacon 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

What are your strengths? Long, sustained sporty routes? Harder, bouldery moves? Easy moves in scary positions?

Get on a couple that suit your strengths first. 

In reply to deacondeacon:

I'm better on steeper sustained ground. Eg I really enjoyed Lavaredo (VS 5a) the other week and found it a bit easier than 5a.

 GrahamD 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Lavaredo is not easy !  Not sure what Oxine goes at but might fit the bill. As suggested above, Brandt direct is good solid well protected HVS work.

1
 climbingpixie 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Britomartis seemed pretty easy. Bagsy the steep pitch and give your mate the delicate one if you're better on the burly stuff. 

1
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Scratch Arete (HVS 5a) and Merlin Direct (HVS 5a)

Post edited at 08:09
 oldie 27 Jun 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

Shows how different people have different experiences. Did Lavarado decades ago with initial trepidation but found it straightforward pulling up a short steep crux on good small holds, didn't seem anything like 5a. 

1
pasbury 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pasbury:

Anyone care to explain their dislikes of my recommendation? Brant Direct may be somewhat strenuous and sustained but it's well protected and not cruxy, a good starter I think, though Scratch Arete and Merlin Direct are, admittedly, easier

4
 Dave Garnett 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

I liked these two:

Canol (HVS 5a)

Llech (HVS 5b)

Canol's the easier one but both are a bit burly but well protected and safe as I recall.  It's a brilliant little crag -  walkable from our hut and yet I didn't notice it for decades. Even then I originally went for the bouldering!

Oh, you might want to avoid Recess Right (HS 4b) unless you find the HVSs too easy...

 Dave Garnett 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pasbury:

> Anyone care to explain their dislikes of my recommendation? Brant Direct may be somewhat strenuous and sustained but it's well protected and not cruxy, a good starter I think, though Scratch Arete and Merlin Direct are, admittedly, easier

Not my dislikes, but I did it on a boiling hot day and it felt like hard work making progress before my hand jams slid out.  Everyone seems to agree it's pretty straightforward under normal conditions!

 profitofdoom 27 Jun 2019
In reply to climbingpixie:

> Britomartis seemed pretty easy. Bagsy the steep pitch and give your mate the delicate one if you're better on the burly stuff. 

Thanks, but this shows how personal such recommendations are - I led Britomartis (HVS 4c) many years ago, when I was leading E1 normally, and found it a right gripper - even though I'd done loads at Gogarth before

 Baron Weasel 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Seamstress is pretty steady at HVS if you like slate slabs. Then there's Seems the same next to it that felt the same grade but gets E2.

Post edited at 10:28
8
 ianstevens 27 Jun 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

> Lavaredo is not easy !  Not sure what Oxine goes at but might fit the bill. As suggested above, Brandt direct is good solid well protected HVS work.

Oxine is VS, so not really the one.

If you can stand up, Looning the Tube in the quarries is pretty soft at HVS IMO. 

Y Broga at TDog, bit of slither then easy.

Lots of good options already mentioned.

1
 ianstevens 27 Jun 2019
In reply to Baron Weasel:

> Seamstress is pretty steady at HVS if you like slate slabs. Then there's Seems the same next to it that to felt the same grade but gets E2.

Errmmmm..... Seamstress is (soft) VS, and Seems the Same is (soft) E1 in the modern guides.

Post edited at 10:28
 ianstevens 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pasbury:

> Anyone care to explain their dislikes of my recommendation? Brant Direct may be somewhat strenuous and sustained but it's well protected and not cruxy, a good starter I think, though Scratch Arete and Merlin Direct are, admittedly, easier

I'd guess the strenous thing, there are easier HVSs about for sure! Style dependent of course.

 Pefa 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Promontory Direct, single pitch mild HVS 5A Auchinstarry quarry. My first HVS lead. 

 ianstevens 27 Jun 2019
In reply to Pefa:

Didn't realise we'd succesfully invaded Scotland (the OP asked for North Wales)

 mrphilipoldham 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Herford's Crack (HVS 5a).. if you can jam!

 Baron Weasel 27 Jun 2019
In reply to ianstevens:

Probably a more accurate grade than the guide I used for seamstress. Seems the same should probably be a 'hard' VS then.

 PaulJepson 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Do you have any partners that climb harder than you? I had a brief look at your log and it doesn't appear you're seconding anything harder than you're leading, but this would be a massive help in getting you to break into the next grade. 

One of the things I find really useful for breaking into the next grade is to do multi-pitches of that grade and lead the easier pitches (e.g. climb a multi-pitch HVS 5a with a strong partner and lead the 4c pitch/s). This will help with any psychological barrier, and will really help bridge the gap between VS and HVS. Obviously it won't help as much if you pick routes that have the pitches you're leading graded less than 4c. If you're doing this, I'd recommend checking the UKC comments to make sure the easier pitches aren't horrifically run out.

 Pefa 27 Jun 2019
In reply to ianstevens:

Oop! Didn't notice that bit. 

 HannahC 27 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Another vote for Merlin Direct. Proving opinion is always mixed I found Scratch Arete harder than expected, I'm sticking with trickier for the short as a bad excuse.

The Bruvers on Holyhead Mountain is a great route - if you enjoy that you'll enjoy Britomatis which is a little more sustained.

I did Wen before I did Dream which helped the intimidation factor! But Dream really is all there  

Not HVS but any of the VSs at Tremadog are great experience before stepping up to HVS e.g. Striptease - VS 5a. Noahs Warning - VS 5a is another great top end VS on the Cromlech.   

 Offwidth 27 Jun 2019
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Herfords would be mid VS in Yorkshire by jamming or layback (I've done it both ways and both methods felt the same grade to me). It's the softest I know adjectivally. In technical terms Dream is the easiest I've done but its tricky to protect and wow what positions.

2
 mrphilipoldham 27 Jun 2019
In reply to Offwidth:

Yes it very much felt VS, probably only HS in Yorkshire mind   

1
In reply to PaulJepson:

> Do you have any partners that climb harder than you?

A couple but they've both got young kids so don't come out to play very often. Usually I'm out with people climbing at the same grade as me or below.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions, thats a really good list to get on with.

 Euan Todd 28 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Can't believe nobody has mentioned Fan Fare (HVS 4c).  Steep, but on ginormous holds, about as soft as HVS gets!

Bruvers (HVS 5a) is quite physical, but very short and very safe (miles easier than King Bee crack too!)

 Pekkie 28 Jun 2019
In reply to Baron Weasel: Seamstress is easy VS and Seams the Same is goey E1/E2! Just my humble opinion!

2
 Pekkie 28 Jun 2019
In reply to C Witter: Superdirect used to be E1 5b with a tough top pitch. Not a soft touch HVS at all!

2
 afshapes 28 Jun 2019
In reply to Pekkie:

Completely agree,  not a soft touch at all.  First pitch , you literally moon walk up it , it's that polished.  Yes well protected but shit me it's shiny.  Second pitch is poorly protected and the third pitch,  although fantastic , is not one for the aspiring HVS leader ! 

1
 afshapes 28 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

King bee crack,  holy head mountain.  Very well protected,  not that hard but a stamina fest.  

12
 GrahamD 28 Jun 2019
In reply to oldie:

> Shows how different people have different experiences.

Indeed it does, last time i did Lavaredo it was a bit cold and damp and i almost certainly made the mistake of climbing it with an "its only VS mindset". Still not the softest VS out there.

 GrahamD 28 Jun 2019
In reply to afshapes:

> King bee crack,  holy head mountain.  Very well protected,  not that hard but a stamina fest.  

Not very hard for HVS ? Plenty would disagree !

 GrahamD 28 Jun 2019
In reply to pasbury:

Id agree with Brandt direct as a good candidate. Well protected with plentt of bridging rests. Honest middle grade HVS fodder. Scratch Arete fore the soft touch option. 

1
In reply to afshapes:

> King bee crack,  holy head mountain.  Very well protected,  not that hard but a stamina fest.  

Never done a soft touch climb at Holyhead Mountain.

 Dave Garnett 28 Jun 2019
In reply to C Witter:

> A brilliant climb: Superdirect (HVS 5a)

I have to say I agree with the other comments.  I'd somehow thought you meant Superdirect on the Mot had been downgraded, which in itself would be a bold suggestion for easy HVS, but I honestly think Superdirect on Milestone is harder!

The first pitch is only well-protected once you have the gear in - I've seen someone pretty competent take a ground fall from the start of the crack it while trying to place it.  The top pitch is pretty intimidating for mid-E leaders, let alone someone breaking into HVS.  

 C Witter 28 Jun 2019
In reply to Pekkie:

Are you sure you're not confusing the Superdirect (HVS 5a) on Milestone Buttress with the Super Direct on Dinas Mot (E1 5b)?

Most people have voted for middle of the road HVS, high 5a. The first pitch is a pleasant but polished 4c; the second gets 4c, but felt 5a to me at the crux; the third is pretty steady on the traverse (low 5a) with a crack at the end that felt 5a to me, but is probably only worth 4b in Yorkshire. Protection is good everywhere except at the crux of pitch 2, where you've good protection by your feet on a ledge (a sling around a spike, IIRC), but you have to move up two metres from the ledge before more pro arrives. It must be a bastard of section if you're short, but if you're lanky it's all over fairly quickly, and you can wham in some gear before pootling up the enjoyable slab above to the funky 'bivalve' and the belay. Protection on the traverse is fiddly but is there.

Added bonus for an aspiring HVS leader is that, before/after each pitch you've the option of bailing on to a VDiff if you don't fancy it anymore.

Post edited at 10:34
 C Witter 28 Jun 2019
In reply to Dave Garnett:

Ha! Well, my experience on Welsh HVS rock is pretty thin, so I won't disagree with another person. But, I see myself as aspiring to become a steady HVS/E1 leader and I thought it was just really enjoyable and brilliant - hence the recommendation.

 Paul Sagar 28 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Icarus (HVS 5a) - very easy so long as you can jam in the final move or think 3d enough to get out of needing to

NOT easy HVS and to be avoided until later

Diagonal (HVS 5a): - the final crack pitch is brutal (if well protected) and the one before is run out and head-spacey

King Bee Crack (HVS 5a) - thought it would make a good first HVS lead after having led about 8 trad routes. WRONG. Nearly killed myself.

VS graded but is actually HVS and is also amazing:

Noah's Warning (VS 5a) - if you can lead this you can lead 90% of HVS.

 afshapes 28 Jun 2019
In reply to GrahamD:

I'm suprised , it's steep so you get tired but it's a jug fest and eats gear. Maybe I was having a good day ! 

 afshapes 28 Jun 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

To be honest I've always found HVS a tricky grade,  it's not e1 but much harder than vs , skip it,  get on the e numbers ! 

 Dave Garnett 28 Jun 2019
In reply to C Witter:

> Ha! Well, my experience on Welsh HVS rock is pretty thin, so I won't disagree with another person. But, I see myself as aspiring to become a steady HVS/E1 leader and I thought it was just really enjoyable and brilliant - hence the recommendation.

Maybe the start has got a lot more polished recently - I admit that I didn't find it hard the first time I did it 30 years ago! 

As for that top pitch, the start <i>is</i> very intimidating and awkward, getting off the huge ledge and getting established on the traverse.  I seem to remember an eminent BMC group gathered on the ledge sending Neil Foster to sort it out for them (the same day as the unfortunate slip from the bottom, but a different party).

I think it has a very high failure rate, largely because the easy alternative is so convenient!

 Pekkie 28 Jun 2019
In reply to C Witter:

Yep, sorry. Assumed the post was referring to Superdirect on Dinas Mot rather than the one on Milestone.

 wilkesley 29 Jun 2019
In reply to climbingpixie:

ISTR the crux is the first 15 feet or so. After that, it's glorious jug hauling in a fantastic position.

 wilkesley 29 Jun 2019
In reply to HannahC:

Scratch Arete is definitely easier if you are tall with long arms. You can reach the good hold above the overhang much more easily. I can't understand why the peg was used on the first ascent. It's in completely the wrong place if you wanted to use it for aid.

Post edited at 10:23
 Trangia 29 Jun 2019
In reply to pasbury:

> Anyone care to explain their dislikes of my recommendation? Brant Direct may be somewhat strenuous and sustained but it's well protected and not cruxy, a good starter I think, though Scratch Arete and Merlin Direct are, admittedly, easier

Not my dislikes either, but I found Brant Direct both strenuous and sustained as you say yourself. Surely not a great recipe for a first time HVS lead when you are probably going to be apprehensive, not very relaxed and on edge? 

In reply to Trangia:

Brant Direct’s a very traditional suggestion. It’s basically piss for the grade and well protected.

jcm

1
 Doug 29 Jun 2019
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Was the first route I led that was HVS in the guidebook of the day & it seemed pretty straightforward & no harder than some VSs I'd led before (some of which have since been upgraded). At the time (1976) it was a popular choice for first HVS

Neither Bruvers nor King Bee can be fairly described as a soft touch.

 Michael Hood 30 Jun 2019
In reply to Doug:

Ivy Sepulchre was my second or third HVS-, thanks to Ron James It didn't seem too bad.

(Brant Direct was my third or second)

Sometimes we all worry too much about the accuracy of grades rather than just giving likely looking routes a try.

 earlsdonwhu 30 Jun 2019
In reply to Michael Hood:

I agree. A couple of years ago, my first route of the season and one of my few HVS routes was King Bee Crack  as mentioned further up the thread. I had had an eye on it for a while and just gave it a go despite less than ideal conditions. It went well and back at the bottom, I was amazed to hear another leader point the route out to his mate and say it was one of the hardest N Wales routes of its grade. Had I been told this an hour earlier, I probably would have given it a miss!

 GridNorth 30 Jun 2019
In reply to Michael Hood:

I had been climbing well in the Peak for several months ticking off various HVS and Extreme climbs, This was pre E1, E2, E3 etc.  At that time, and believe it or not, Brant Direct got an Extreme grade in the then current guide book.  I climbed it with relative ease and so moved onto what was then one of the most sought after extremes in the country, Cenotaph Corner, thinking I was ready.  It did not end well which just goes to prove how fickle grading can be.

Al

 Postmanpat 30 Jun 2019
In reply to GridNorth:

  Ron James gave Brant Direct HVS- and Cenotaph HVS+ (with the peg) which was about right since RJ's HVS+ usually translates to E1.

  I last did Brant Direct about 10 years ago and it felt very polished and quite hard work.

  I'd recommend Scratch Arete (which RJ gave HVS-). Well protected and only one hardish bit.

 jimtitt 30 Jun 2019
In reply to GridNorth:

Brant Direct was my first Extreme tick (coming from Swanage climbing I wrote that carefully) in big boots with three nuts, a year later Cenotaph corner without the peg was mid-HVS in rockboots and five nuts.

 Rob Davies 01 Jul 2019
In reply to Postmanpat:

Ron James gave Scratch Arete HVS- with a peg for aid!

But I think it probably is low-end HVS without the piton, though it's a good few years since I did it.

 PaulTanton 01 Jul 2019
In reply to pasbury:

Brant direct? Very polished these days. 

In reply to Rob Davies:

I’d have thought Scratch Arête would be at least E1 if you were actually obliged to use the peg for aid. I’ve never been able to understand how on earth you were supposed to do that. Maybe it was in a different place back in the day.

Bit like Left Wall. I think I’d sooner flat-out solo that than attempt it in what one gathers was the traditional style of taking a few pebbles up in your pocket and doing the crux in slings attached to those.

jcm

 Rob Exile Ward 01 Jul 2019
In reply to Postmanpat:

Scratch Arete was on my list of possible top of the range solos - but I was always stopped (even from attempting it, I have to admit,) by the cracks on the first pitch. I could bumble up them with gear but solo … nah.

 Mick Ward 01 Jul 2019
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

> Bit like Left Wall. I think I’d sooner flat-out solo that than attempt it in what one gathers was the traditional style of taking a few pebbles up in your pocket and doing the crux in slings attached to those.

In the '60s, Rowland Edwards did the latter, then the former.

Mick

 Ratfeeder 02 Jul 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Cemetery Gates. (Easier than Brant Direct anyway.)

1
 adam06 02 Jul 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

tremadog - Kestrel Cracks, scratch arete, merlin direct, stromboli, grotto direct

slate - looning the tube, solstice 

holyhead mountain - Bruvers

 Skyfall 02 Jul 2019
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Merlin Direct (HVS 5a)

Scratch Arete (HVS 5a)

I really do think Merlin Direct and Scratch Arête are great intro's to HVS, both at Trem.  

Whoever suggested Y'Broga (which I perversely enjoyed but seconds always hated) is really having a laugh.  An esoteric slippery slab which most seem to hate in my experience.  

In reply to Skyfall:

> I really do think Merlin Direct and Scratch Arête are great intro's to HVS, both at Trem.  

> Whoever suggested Y'Broga (which I perversely enjoyed but seconds always hated) is really having a laugh.  An esoteric slippery slab which most seem to hate in my experience.  

Absolutely right, I think, your comments about all three. Merlin Direct in particular is an absolutely delectable, tame, friendly bottom-end HVS pitch on superlative rock. 

 Postmanpat 02 Jul 2019
In reply to Ratfeeder:

> Cemetery Gates. (Easier than Brant Direct anyway.)

>

   Arguably Cemetery Gates is HVS rather than E1 but it’s certainly not soft touch HVS.

In reply to Postmanpat:

Agreed. It's right at the cusp, but not quite E1, really. What's certainly wrong is the technical grade of '5b'. There isn't a 5b move on it.

 Siderunner 03 Jul 2019

I remember Spectre on the Grochan as being quite doable and reasonably protected. Was one of my first HVS, both Brant Direct and King Bee Crack felt harder.

Spectre (HVS 5a)

You could also look at Gauntlet on Gogarth upper tier too. Perhaps a more serious proposition but I vaguely recall decent pro where it’s hard.


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