Ron James RIP

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 Sean Kelly 01 Mar 2023
Thread moved from The Pub to Rocktalk

Sad news today with the passing of Ron James. I still have his classic guide "Rock Climbing in Wales"

He not only established Ogwen Cottage as an outdoor centre, but was also involved with the setting up the Ogwen MR. Also, a number of classic routes that bear his name. RIP Ron.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

I loved his guidebook, which I still have

In reply to John Stainforth:

I see that I still have mine too (a bit batterd - the crumpled, torn out pages covering Belle View Bastion to Munich Climb implies that i used them for doing those climbs.) There's no doubt that that it was well ahead of it's time, setting a whole new style of guidebook.

 Dave Garnett 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

One of my retirement projects is going to be to tick my remaining Ron James routes - although I'll need to get a move on if I'm going to manage some of the HVSs, like Rosy Crucifixion HVS+ (E3 6a), Red (Bloody) Slab HVS+ (E3 5b) and Connie's Crack HVS- A2 (E5 6b)!  One of the best guidebooks ever, and the grading, though harsh, was consistent.

My battered 1976 copy with its scribbled notes and mildew (my then girlfriend dropped it into a rockpool at Gogarth) has pride of place on my bookshelf (alongside the pristine copy she insisted on buying me to apologise.  Reader, I married her.)

OP Sean Kelly 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Not quite sure why he felt the need to rewrite the grading system. However technical & E grade appeared shortly afterwards, and been with us ever since.

 Postmanpat 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

  Sad to hear this. I have two copies of his guide (I mislaid the first one so bought another). It was a bible for many of us. The grading system was slightly odd but made sense in the absence of an open ended E grade format, and actually the ranking ie.grading of climbs relative to each other, holds up very well. 

  He also did a rather good instructional series on TV.

 jcw 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Ron not only taught me to climb but also to get out in all conditions. He revelled in doing routes in foul cold weather both at home (my initiation on Munich, Main Wall,  and first sorties on Cloggy all in winter). Likewise in his favourite stomping ground, the Dolomites, where I did many of the big climbs of the day (still are) behind him as a beginner, even when in snow.The experience was usually lightened by his fund of improper stories, recounted in his Brummy accent. Thanks Ron. I owe you a lot. 

 Moacs 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

My first trip to the Dollies was with his guidebook.

Loved Grey Arete and Meschach and probably more I didn't realise were his.

He set up Ogwen Cottage and key member of the rescue team there.

A life fully lived.

 rockcatch 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

OVMRO’s tribute to Ron, it’s founding member, can be read at https://ogwen-rescue.org.uk/about-us/tributes/

 Rob Parsons 02 Mar 2023
In reply to rockcatch:

> OVMRO’s tribute to Ron, it’s founding member, can be read at https://ogwen-rescue.org.uk/about-us/tributes/

"And Ron’s technique for extracting rock climbers who had their leg stuck in a crevice. He would climb up to them and ask them if they had eaten their sandwiches: if not, he used the buttered face to lubricate the stricken knee. He then attached a rope to the climber and climbed a few feet above him before placing a solid running belay. He then jumped off, and the taut rope would pluck the casualty from the crevice."

Bloody hell! I wonder how frequently that technique was employed. And if it occasionally went wrong.

Is it / was it common for people to get their knees stuck?

Post edited at 17:30
 rockcatch 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Rob Parsons:

> Is it / was it common for people to get their knees stuck?

Looking at our online database there are a few examples of stuck knees. There may be more that didn't come up with the keywords I used. It seems washing up liquid is the current lubricant of choice.

03/07/1994: Casualty suffered a jammed knee which was unstuck by passers by.  Mobile phone call to Dublin Rescue Service then Merseyside then NWP.  C Flight 22 Sqn collected casualty and companion

24/07/1995: Casualty's knee became jammed in a crack. Ably assisted by another party.  Unstuck and walked down.

01/05/2010: The lead climber of this pair put her foot in a crack and then could not remove it as it had become firmly wedged. The Team were just returning from the previous incident so diverted to this job. It took a lot of washing up liquid and manipulation to finally free the foot. She was then able to be lowered off the crag and walk to the road with very little assistance. A very unlucky event!

30/10/2017: A female climber seconding Slab Route on the Gribin Facet unfortunately managed to get her leg totally jammed in a crack in the rock. Her partner was unable to free it so called for help. An Oggie hill party was dispatched and back up was requested from Llanberis MRT who also deployed to the cas site. A joint effort with rope systems and washing up liquid finally freed the leg and she was lowered to the base of the crag and loaded on a stretcher ready for evacuation.

Post edited at 17:49
 FactorXXX 02 Mar 2023
In reply to rockcatch:

> Looking at our online database there are a few examples of stuck knees. There may be more that didn't come up with the keywords I used. It seems washing up liquid is the current lubricant of choice.

At least it means that the next climbers will have a clean ascent.

 Rob Parsons 02 Mar 2023
In reply to rockcatch:

> Looking at our online database there are a few examples of stuck knees. There may be more that didn't come up with the keywords I used. It seems washing up liquid is the current lubricant of choice.

Thanks!

 Jim Lancs 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

" . . . My battered 1976 copy with its scribbled notes . . ."

Just been to check my similar copy is still on the bookshelves. An absolutely integral part of getting established as a climber.

It reminded my that back then, the climbing world was full of references to these icons of the sport. You went shopping in Frank Davies', Harry Robinson's or Joe Brown's, you were guided by Paul Nunn, Ron James or Cram & Eilbeck, you put your Whillan's harness on over your Ron Hills, and carried all your stuff in your Haston Apiniste.

 barbeg 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Sad news... enjoy the climbing in the sky Ron.

I was at IMM with Ron 82-85.

Learnt much from him, especially some "tricks of the trade" that I still use today.

Barbeg 

 Rick Scott 02 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Sad news indeed. I met Ron in the Dolomites, camping at Sella Towers with Neil Willatt in summer 1974. It was our first trip away from blighty, we were very green and Ron was very encouraging. My copy of Rock climbing in Wales was "borrowed", but I have my old mate Giles Barker's copy with wonderful inscriptions made by him and dates of ascents, some of them done with me. It was an inspirational guide for us ........ great days! RIP Ron.

 Howard J 03 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Sad news. As others have said, his North Wales guide was indispensable and inspirational.

 Doug 03 Mar 2023
In reply to Howard J:

I think his Welsh guidebook was the first I owned, and for a long time was one of the only 3 I owned (the others were Paul Nunn's Peak guide & Geoff Cram & Ian Roper's Lakes book).

 Mick Ward 03 Mar 2023
In reply to Doug:

As far as I know, that Welsh guidebook was the first Selected Climbs. He was a man ahead of his time. 

Mick 

 rockcat 03 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Very sad - I still have a battered copy of his much used North Wales guidebook.

 Offwidth 04 Mar 2023
In reply to Mick Ward:

Agree with Ron being a man ahead of his times...RIP

As for UK selective guides I always thought Haskett Smith produced the first but there were also various early pamphlets.  I guess it depends on how you define a selective guide.

Just checked the Alan Moss opus and he has H-S....also just re skimed the history ...you should get yourself a copy of the book for that alone. Only a few sentences sniping at commercial guidebook producers and prices at the end disappoints (I think modern guides are cheap if you take inflation into account let alone the increase in effort required for much more info in a modern glossy layout ... but that discussion is not suitable for this thread).

Post edited at 10:06
 Marc C 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Ron's "Rock Climbs in Snowdonia" was our Bible when we first started out. His route descriptions were great fun to read..you really could enjoy reading and re-living the climbs at home. Sadly, I dropped my copy somewhere down the East Buttress of Tryfan. My friend Chris used to regularly borrow the only copy in Shrewsbury library, then add annotations (e g "peg now gone", "chimney a titanic struggle") till he took it out one time and someone had written "will the **** who keeps writing comments, please stop!".

 philipjardine 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

another famous alumnus of University of Birmingham MC (the "Stoats").

My green 2nd ed doesn't have "beg for aid".  Is that a myth?

Post edited at 20:45
 Camboje 06 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

I quote from an article I wrote with a reference to the early days at Ogwen Cottage   

"Ron James was the guru and he influenced us all – he was the master of rope technique and runner placement. He would climb with people of all abilities and always made sure that they enjoyed the climb and did it properly. As a guide he was unique in that he would take clients up routes that were near to his own top standard – there was nobody else guiding climbs like Cenotaph and White Slab in those days. Ron was one of the best climbers of his time and so much underrated. We also dated two sisters from Bangor for a while (Heather and Adrienne) and had some great times and parties at Ogwen".

RIP Ron - I have many fond memories

Boje 

 Frank Cannings 06 Mar 2023
In reply to philipjardine:

Not a myth , but not in Ron James "Rock Climbing in Wales". 

It's in the Climbers' Club Snowdon South guidebook by Trevor Jones 1970, page 38:

Aquila 200 feet Hard Very Severe (1955) -  description for pitch 3:

(3) 25 feet. From the right-hand end of the ledge, climb a short wall (beg for aid) to the foot of the shallow groove.....

 Mark Kemball 06 Mar 2023
In reply to philipjardine:

> My green 2nd ed doesn't have "beg for aid".  Is that a myth?

This is in Trevor Jones’ 1970 “Snowdon South” (p38), Aquila, pitch 3 of 5. I don’t know if it appears in Ron James first edition, but the second edition does not include that and describes Aquila in 4 pitches. 

 philipjardine 07 Mar 2023
In reply to Mark Kemball:

thank you Mark and Frank for correcting me!

 Greenbanks 07 Mar 2023
In reply to Jim Lancs:

Ah, Harry's in Lancaster....this takes me back. A gear shop run by a local and an enthusiast!

 uphillnow 07 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Sad news indeed. I was on the one year advanced diploma in outdoor education course at I M Marsh in 1984/5 which I think was Ron,s final year there. The course was delivered to a large degree on residentials  in N Wales and on weekends or days out in the Peak or Dales. As one of  eight course members we got to know him pretty well. A lot of what I gained from the course was as a result of him being there. 

 Greenbanks 07 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Rock climbing in Wales certainly was a brilliant collation - well ahead of its time. My second edition has been (mainly) well-preserved and it deserves its place in the 'Classics Corner' of my collection.


 Pedro50 07 Mar 2023
In reply to Greenbanks:

The original classic:


 Greenbanks 07 Mar 2023
In reply to Pedro50:

Yes, wonderfully evocative. My version went missing in the Cwm Silyn area...

 Gary Gibson 09 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:I was lucky enough to meet Ron at Stanage many years ago and for me and my brother his guidebook was a rock climbing essential as was Bau, Nunn’s guidebook to the beat in the seventies 

 mikej 21 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Ron was also the author in 1974 of Rock Face - Techniques of Rock Climbing, which was a BBC publication to compliment the TV series.

The front cover shows Ron and Barbara arriving at the east side of Cloggy…..RIP.


OP Sean Kelly 21 Mar 2023
In reply to mikej:

With a Whillans Sac on her back!

 jcw 21 Mar 2023
In reply to mikej:

That's my unacknowledged  photo posted on my gallery on UKC!

 FactorXXX 21 Mar 2023
In reply to jcw:

> That's my unacknowledged  photo posted on my gallery on UKC!

Isn't the book from fifty years ago?

 jcw 21 Mar 2023
In reply to FactorXXX:

Possibly, and I don't care. But it was published by BBC without ANY request for using my photo. it would have of course been given straight away.  But it is not the only time that Ron showed a casualness to the conventions. 

However, that does not mean that  I am any the less indebted to him for teaching me how to climb and how to get out in any conditions. 

 Mick Ward 22 Mar 2023
In reply to jcw:

Hi John,

I can understand you being pissed off. But the poster above wasn't to know it was your photo on the front cover. I'm sure he acted in completely good faith. Also UKC weren't to know. 

In any case, my understanding (which may be wrong!) is that showing the front cover of a book with a photo on it is quite different from simply showing the photo. And if so, this would make sense. Each time a photo is shown, there's a different 'use'. But each time the photo is shown as a front cover, surely it's the same use - showing the book. It would be incredibly unwieldy to have to ask for permission each time one showed a book/cover. For instance, you'd have to contact the estate of the photographer when the person was no longer with us. 

In my view, both Ron James and the BBC were at fault. He should have insisted on a proper photo credit and payment for you. But he probably didn't want to rock the boat. However they should certainly have done the right thing.

John Noakes said once that years after he left the BBC he discovered to his horror that he'd never been insured for personal injury while he worked there. And this is after going unroped up Nelson's Column, etc! This was a major programme for the BBC - our BBC - not two guys in a portakabin startup. Noakes also reckoned he was paid peanuts for what he did. 

So I'm not surprised. But I am disappointed. I accept that it was a more easy going world then, especially in climbing. But the BBC knew better. And they should have done better. 

Am sorry. It's a lovely photo. 

Mick 

 full stottie 22 Mar 2023
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Like others on here his Guidebook was one of my first. More recently I read Barbara James' book "Itching to climb". Fascinating insights into her days with Ron, the Ogwen MR, instructing with the MoD, and her own life's struggle with eczema. 

Dave


 jcw 22 Mar 2023
In reply to Mick Ward: no blame whatever for the post of the picture. On the contrary. What niggled me slightly was Factorxxx legalistic quibble, which missed the point.. I would never have asked for any rights, simply the courtesy of asking me to use it along with acknowledgment of its provenance. Drawing the attention of UKC to its use was simply so they might know that there had been a possible infringement of copyright  but no expectation of any action. Indeed, I wonder what their copyright clause actually amounts to.

Incidentally, I am just completing a copy of vol 1 of my full diary plentifully illustrated with photos. Would you like to see it?

 petemeads 22 Mar 2023
In reply to jcw:

Your posts have just reminded me that one of my UKC photos of Wall of Horrors was used on the Footless Crow site without any apparent contact for permission. But so what? I was happy to have a decent picture to adorn the article about Allan Austin - but no credit, and a description that the climber was John Syrett, not Chris Hunter, really annoyed me. I emailed with my corrections and got a response, but nothing changed, and now the site owner is no longer with us. Disappointing.

 Mick Ward 22 Mar 2023
In reply to jcw:

Hi John, I think they do their best on here. For me it's an oasis of (relative) sanity in an increasingly crazy world. 

Yes indeed, would love to see what you're working on. Will be coming back to the UK in a few weeks time. Could I contact you then? I'm always leery of stuff getting lost in the post unless I'm around. And obviously need to pay you for postage, etc. 

Mick 

 Mick Ward 22 Mar 2023
In reply to petemeads:

Re Footless Crow, John's heart was totally in the right place. It was a one man labour of love. He certainly made the odd mistake that I spotted but I never corrected him. It seemed churlish. But perhaps I should have? Sadly too late now.

I'm sure he meant to redress things but somehow forgot. He did care - very much indeed. I assure you of that. 

Great photos of Chris Hunter on Wall of Horrors!

Mick 

 petemeads 22 Mar 2023
In reply to Mick Ward:

Thanks Mick, I'm sure you're right, and it was a great article. 

Chris got to lead it as I had first dibs and wimped out of the crux move - still pretty scary seconding it - and the photos were the consolation prize I suppose..

Pete


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