Recommend me some quality safe E1s in the peak

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I'm moving to Sheffield soon and haven't climbed much on grit. Can you recommend me some good safe E1s to have a go at?

 Dave Garnett 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

> I'm moving to Sheffield soon and haven't climbed much on grit. 

Get over to some nice limestone then - Staden has loads of safe E1ish pitches; Swan Song, Bicycle Repair Man, Charas, The Nails, Liquid Courage.

15
 deepsoup 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Living locally puts shorter visits to crags that you probably wouldn't drive for hours to get to on the menu.  So I'll go with Pollux (E1 5b).  There's some loose rock at Agden.  It's been a while but I remember this as a good solid route though, with plenty of decent gear.  A relatively safe E1, but not a soft one.

3
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Carl:

> Surely too many to list! Have a go at:

That's just cruel

Chris

1
 Carl 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Chris Craggs:

Maybe it should be at the bottom of the list instead!

 Myfyr Tomos 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Moving to Sheffield? 😲

 David Riley 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Long Tall Sally.

10
 planetmarshall 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

The Left Unconquerable (E1 5b) would be the obvious choice.

Plus any one of the Peak's crack climbs at that grade are usually safe unless they have a low crux.

 deacondeacon 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Just go along the crag and have a wander. Cracks tend to be safe, slabs tend to be bold. Anything with a star or more will be good.

I'm very, very envious of you having so many great routes to get stuck into 🙂

1
 TobyA 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> Get over to some nice limestone then - Staden has loads of safe E1ish pitches; Swan Song, Bicycle Repair Man, 

Earlier this summer I saw someone hit the ground falling off I think it was Bicycle Repair Man from a decent way up it. Fortunately the lad seemed shook up and a bit scratched up and bruised but not worse, but 'safe' is relative to your skills placing gear I guess.

One of those "oh god no" moments watching.

1
 Lankyman 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Strapiombante (E1 5b) is very safe but some people I've known have made a meal of it.

 Shani 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

> I'm moving to Sheffield soon and haven't climbed much on grit. Can you recommend me some good safe E1s to have a go at?

Three Pebble Slab

Recommended on condition that once ticked, you return to UKC and share your opinion on the grade!

Oh, and The Toy is arguably E0 6a.

15
 Offwidth 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Shani:

Twaddle. The Toy is, if anything different grade wise, probably bog standard bottom end E2 5c. The easiest sequence at the crux (easish 5c) is hard to spot, so most E1 onsighters fail or struggle trying a harder method. 

Our Smile list from the Froggatt guide (p.89) was Laimbrain, Non- Secateur, Nesh, Afterbirth, All the President's Men, Vaguely Great, Up the Establishment, and Whillan's Blind Variant (in reverse order of difficulty). The Toy was also in the Smile list: as the last and toughest safe E1 test to confirm the climber is ready to try some easier safe E2s.

Someone should really upload the Smile list to the UKC tick lists if it hasn't been done already.

I should add that my view on 3 Pebble has never changed having witnessed many genuine onsights of the true line from HVS and E1 leaders... it's a serious E1 (low in the grade) 4c on the top friction padding, where you really need to stay cool and collected; that's if UK adjectival grades mean anything for seriousness. Scooting off left above the technical crux is almost an independent line at HVS. I've never seen a route receive so much bs retrospective grading (as low as HS).

Post edited at 14:06
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 TobyA 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Offwidth:

> Twaddle. The Toy is, if anything different grade wise, probably bog standard bottom end E2 5c. The easiest sequence at the crux (easy 5c) is hard to spot, so most E1 onsighters fail or struggle trying a harder method. 

Did you onsight it on your first ascent of the route then? Are you saying E2 because it includes the difficulty of reading the moves correctly? I've become pretty resistant to the idea of categorical grades I suppose, just watching partners do moves very differently to me because we are different heights, or shapes or favour different hold types.

I've only seconded the Toy but was really happy to get up it cleanly (I'd say onsight, but how much is anything onsight when you've just belayed you mate up something!). It definitely felt brick hard to me!

In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

> Moving to Sheffield? 😲

Yes, sadly, although it'll have it's consolations

 Offwidth 23 Sep 2021
In reply to TobyA:

I did it the 'easy way', left-hand finish first time (I was told about the 'true' right-hand  line months later). I did the 'true line' right-hand finish a year or so later as a partial onsight and despite being an pretty good bold slab climber at the time I found it made me climb 'E1 carefully'. As an example of not being a soft slab grader I was recommending a downgrade of Eastby's slab E2, The Padder, to E1 having done it around the same time.

More importantly as a co-editor helping grade a famous route with a controversial grade, I tried to subsume how I found it and looked for information from as many people as possible. As well as watching tens of genuine onsights from HVS/E1 leaders, I talked to people and read UKC comments from people I trust and looked at UKC grade votes (which don't disaggregate the easier left-hand variation). Everything pointed to low E1 and honesty is important on bold routes. I was disappointed the Rockfax HVS grading overwrote the then majority E1 UKC grade vote. Even now UKC grade votes favour E1 (with still no disaggregation of the easier left hand finish)

Edit...just realised you meant The Toy, not 3PS, doh! ..seconded with falls, several times, before spotting an easier sequence. I've never got round to leading it (partly as I like to leave a gap on retro leads, and a few people nagged me into seconding their onsight attempt over the years)... it may be too hard for me to do now unless I get some form back. Again as for 3PS relied on other grade views and watched people...it stayed at E1 partly as policy not to upgrade safe borderline classics, as a counter to grade creep... not unreasonable... and it's the very top of the Froggatt E1 graded list.

Post edited at 14:52
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 nickcanute 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Unprintable and The Vice at Stanage both well protectable E1s

Medusa at Stoney is HVS but a good challenge for the E1 leader, as is Dead Banana Crack, which has a low crux with bomber gear.

1
 Shani 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Offwidth:

> Twaddle. The Toy is, if anything different grade wise, probably bog standard bottom end E2 5c. The easiest sequence at the crux (easish 5c) is hard to spot, so most E1 onsighters fail or struggle trying a harder method. 

Hmmm. It felt only slightly harder than Easy Pickings to me (which is also E0 6a, but top-end).

5
In reply to pancakeandchips:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rock_talk/need_help_in_breaking_into_e1_o...

Lamebrain, as offwidth says, is a good shout. Strapiombante, left unconq, L'horla, The Link, Moyer's, safety net, white out. The Toy is hard but safe (E1 5c is spot on). TPS is easy climbing but I've seen someone in a pile at the bottom more than once.

 olddirtydoggy 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Great buttress arete over at Wharncliffe crags is a nice start to E1. My first E1 lead with some great gear. Some micro cams do help on one of the horizontal cracks.

 David Riley 23 Sep 2021
In reply to David Riley:

Why 8 dislikes for Long Tall Sally ?  I found it easier than Left Unconquerable.

 GrahamD 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Not grit, but George is really good, as is Debauchery.

I think Trident and Blue Lines Crack are given E1 these days and should provide an honest struggle.

 Offwidth 23 Sep 2021
In reply to David Riley:

LTS is pretty reach dependant and LU is fitness dependant. Both good first E1 routes.

In reply to olddirtydoggy

GBA is another good call but don't forget the whole top block rocks (I nearly crushed my own hand jam...plus cams won't work in the top 'break' under that block)

In reply to Shani

Everyone seems to have EP at 6b these days. I thought it was 6a but that's from over a decade back.

Post edited at 18:03
 George Frisby 23 Sep 2021
In reply to David Riley:

Cos not the first route that pops to mind when someone is specifically asking for safe. Fiddly small gear, with some slightly runout sections? Just not exactly straight forward safe compared to lots of other grit E1s with plentiful more straightford gear all the way thru the route. No doubt nice climb tho. 

In reply to David Riley:

> Why 8 dislikes for Long Tall Sally ?  I found it easier than Left Unconquerable.

It definitely isn't safer. And everyone seems to do it as a first or early E1 because someone told them it's a good first E1, but nobody can explain why.

 Mick Ward 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Offwidth:

Have no idea what grades these routes are now and my ascents were about 40 years ago but I'd give Easy Pickings E3 6b, safe but a right bastard and Toy E2 6a. From (feeble) memory, you could hurt yourself though on Toy if you blew it at the top. I don't know whether micro cams would help; obviously not around back then. Can't remember who told me to do Toy for a warmup; maybe the same person who suggested Ted Cheasby as another warmup? 

Happy days (well, if you survived them; some didn't). But it's left me with a distinct aversion to folk getting sandbagged. 

Mick 

1
 Offwidth 23 Sep 2021
In reply to George Frisby:

I'd disagree, the OP looks like a reasonably experienced HVS leader with some E1 leads elsewhere looking to move up to E1 on grit. The really safe E1 grit routes are often just too brutal or strenuous.

2
 Offwidth 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Mick Ward:

I don't like any deliberate sandbagging but bold sandbagging is plain idiotic. There is no way I'd recommend either of those routes as an early E2, let alone an early E1.

 kevin stephens 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Grit is different, rather than looking for soft touches at your usual grade it may be quicker to start on VS and work your way up to E1 , by which time you will have a much better feel for the grit, rather than be disheartened jumping straight on to E1

 planetmarshall 23 Sep 2021
In reply to kevin stephens:

> Grit is different, rather than looking for soft touches at your usual grade it may be quicker to start on VS and work your way up to E1 , by which time you will have a much better feel for the grit, rather than be disheartened jumping straight on to E1

I think you're more likely to be sandbagged at VS or HVS on Grit than you are at E1. If, for example, you were to think the likes of Altar Crack (VS 4c) or Hen Cloud Eliminate (HVS 5b) were representative of their respective grades.

If the OP thinks they can climb at E1, they should just get on with it. On Grit you can be stuck at HVS forever (not that that's necessarily a bad thing given the quality on offer at that grade).

In reply to kevin stephens:

Aye that's what I'm expecting. I want a list of routes to aspire to 😉

Thanks everyone, loads to be looking at.

 kevin stephens 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Left unconquerable and Milsons Minion would offer a good contrast in style

 mrjonathanr 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Hearse Arête and Eye of Faith at Gardoms should be on your list. HA has a little bold section in the middle but the top- a huge roof- is bomber.

 planetmarshall 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Offwidth:

> I don't like any deliberate sandbagging but bold sandbagging is plain idiotic. There is no way I'd recommend either of those routes as an early E2, let alone an early E1.

I haven't done The Toy but it sounds a bit like Pod Crack (E1 6a) at Castle Naze - definitely not on the "First gritstone E1" list.

 Jon Stewart 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Just be aware that lots of the suggestions on here are really safe and really hard. They wouldn't be my choices for someone not used to grit, but then the routes I like and find easy tend to be more run out. That's the thing with grit, other than the odd gem like left unconquerable, most of the well protected routes are gruelling jamming cracks, and the softer routes often have ground fall potential at some point.

Lots of great, intense little routes on grit - if you can master both brutal cracks and bold slabs/aretes etc, you'll get the most out of it. If you're good at long stamina routes on good holds though, it's a total nightmare. 

 MikeR 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Safety Net (E1 5b) on the Roaches skyline is nice, great gear for all the hard bits. It's was one of my first E1s.

 Cake 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

A couple on the moors:

Fallen Heroes (E1 5b) (hard. Actually, I haven't completed it, but it's certainly safe and excellent)

Galileo (E1 5c) (safe, if I remember right)

Also, for an airy route, but with good gear Anniversary Arête (E1 5b). Offset wires are useful to start. 

 CurlyStevo 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

left unconquerable! 

 Martin Haworth 23 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Embankment 4 (E1 5b)

The Left Unconquerable (E1 5b)

L'Horla (E1 5b)

Conjunctus Viribus (E1 5a)

Regarding a few of the  suggestions above, The Toy is worth E2,6a, The Vice is absolute nails.

4
 ebdon 23 Sep 2021
In reply to Martin Haworth:

L'horla has come up a few times, I always thought it was utterly desperate for the grade with potential for a nasty swing on the steep bit. To be honest I'd be wary of most of Curbar for a peak newcomer!

 Cake 24 Sep 2021
In reply to ebdon:

A swing into space, surely?

 Martin Haworth 24 Sep 2021
In reply to ebdon: I agree L’horla is a bit hard for the grade but I remember it as quite safe, it is a while since I’ve done it though.

 Michael Gordon 24 Sep 2021
In reply to Offwidth:

> I'd disagree, the OP looks like a reasonably experienced HVS leader with some E1 leads elsewhere looking to move up to E1 on grit. The really safe E1 grit routes are often just too brutal or strenuous.

But the OP asked for safe routes, not soft touches!

 Offwidth 24 Sep 2021
In reply to Michael Gordon:

There is a big difference between a protectable route at the bottom of the E1 grade and some of the safe brutes suggested that would be E2 on softer graded areas away from gritstone. None of my suggestions are bold soft touches (like the majority of my early E1 leads).

2
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Lots of great, intense little routes on grit - if you can master both brutal cracks and bold slabs/aretes etc, you'll get the most out of it. If you're good at long stamina routes on good holds though, it's a total nightmare. 

If you want those get over to the lancs quarries. Shivers and first finale mentioned already, also Central Route and Ann. Wilton and Hobson Moor are amongst the more sensible places to get on stuff at the top of your price range.

 Dave Garnett 24 Sep 2021
In reply to TobyA:

> Earlier this summer I saw someone hit the ground falling off I think it was Bicycle Repair Man from a decent way up it. Fortunately the lad seemed shook up and a bit scratched up and bruised but not worse, but 'safe' is relative to your skills placing gear I guess.

Well, there you go.  It's such a safe E1 that it's even safe if you don't put the runners in properly - ideal!

Removed User 24 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

If you want proper E1 head West to Wimberry and do the infamous trio.

 Rob Gillespie 24 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Another vote for Safety Net (E1 5b) a top quality E1 

 Offwidth 24 Sep 2021
In reply to Rob Gillespie:

Safety Net is a very good choice, especially for those with above average male reach (the bouldery start is a good bit harder for the short).

 Dave Garnett 24 Sep 2021
In reply to Offwidth:

Male reach?  What are you reaching with?

 Offwidth 24 Sep 2021
In reply to Dave Garnett:

Just that women are shorter on average than men.

 Lankyman 24 Sep 2021
In reply to Removed User:

> If you want proper E1 head West to Wimberry and do the infamous trio.

But Freddie's Finale (HVS 5b) is only HVS ....

Removed User 24 Sep 2021
In reply to Lankyman:

Hmmmm.

 Lankyman 24 Sep 2021
In reply to Removed User:

> Hmmmm.

That's what I thought

 Kevster 24 Sep 2021
In reply to pancakeandchips:

Don't miss out the slightly harder hvs or easier e2. 

Millstone is a great place for hvs onwards. How about the hvs challenge? Then go back the next day and tick off the e1s you saw the day before whilst pshyced?

Suicide wall at cratcliff, sloth at roaches, ordinary route at high tor all make great routes to accompany those e1s and a few e2s that you'll smash out quickly. Iirc sentinel is a gift for e2 and reasonable well protected along the way. There are others of course which I'm sure you'll get the chat on. 

Limestone is a good shout too. Surplumb and aplomb are a great afternoon, the latter you could climb surplumb first pitch then traverse aplomb, reverse for gear, then carry on. Pick pocket, thorn, etc at Beeston make another fun day. Nothing hard. Just good atmosphere... And a bit of undergrowth. But lime is the dark side. 

Have fun. There some lesser crags with some good adventures out there too. 

 Offwidth 25 Sep 2021
In reply to mark s:

Not while this is still going cheap on Rockfax grades:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/ramshaw_rocks-106/alcatraz-15650

After the pugilistic efforts made on wide Western grit at HVS there had to be a route like this somewhere. Not good for someone fresh to gritstone maybe, but Safety Net and Shortcomings (very reach dependant) aside, neither are some of your very testing choices.


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