UKH

Just been brushing up on my (much neglected) climbing basics and came across a method of joining two ropes involving a double overhand knot.  My question is how necessary is this?  Has anyone's joined ropes via a single overhand knot ever unjoined itself (and did you survive the experience)?  Does it significantly increase the risk of the rope jamming?  Has your joined ropes ever jammed whilst abseiling, and if so what knot were you using to effect the join (and did you extricate youself, or are you still hanging there)?

Also, how different is abseiling from wassailing, and do wombles actually exist.

TIA.

Always used a double fisherman's and I'm still alive.

Wassailing is the Scottish version and Wombles are on the red list - restricted to one site only in London.

I was taught/shown a double overhand (Canadian overhand?) knot on a multi-pitch course as a way of joining 2 ropes of unequal diameter together for abseiling. It looks quite distinct when tied, particularly with two different coloured ropes.

All covered here:

https://www.needlesports.com/Information/Need-Advice/Abseil-Knots

I always use a double overhand (very closely stacked together) and never had it stick thus far.

Probably. 

The climbers in one case are dead, hence contributing to the ambiguous answer to the previous question.

At least one fatal Northern American rappelling accident has been potentially blamed on the failure of a single overhand on relatively new ropes.

However, as with other second and third-hand reports of accidents and near misses the evidence is mostly circumstantial and inconclusive rather than definitive.

FWIW I use a single overhand on well-used ropes, a double overhand on shiny new ropes and a double fisherman's on dis-similar ropes. 

Once in a while we hear anecdotes of a single overhand "rolling" to the free ends , but having abseiled on one many thousands of times and never yet had the knot loosen or move at all, I'm sceptical. Perhaps there's something in it, or perhaps it's an unnecessary "precaution" due to paranoia. Anyway, for what it's worth, I never feel the need to add a second knot.

Edit .... I should add that it depends how knots are tied, of course. I'm always careful to set up my single overhand with no twists, tails of 50cm or so, uniformly tightened.

By double overhand knot do you mean two overhand knots or the overhand knot with an extra turn in it?

+1 for this for similar ropes. I've only used a single, tidy overhand knot with long tails for years/ loads of abseils. No problems/ signs of movement so far, I think a double knot makes a bigger target for potential jamming.

edit: I would suggest there are huge differences in abseiling and wassailing but don't have the facts to back this up. However wombles were on the telly when I was a kid so they definitely exist.

I was just thinking it was high time for an EDK thread.  Nice one

Two knots. Like, one knot, then another knot. Tie them clean and stack them close - it's not really that big and makes me feel far safer. 

Cheers, I was thinking that's what folk meant, but worth clearing up as the other knot uses the same name ( akin to single/double fisherman).

The single overhand for joining ropes is called Euro Death Knot and will therefore soon be banned in the UK.

Abseiling will also have to be renamed, but rappelling is not a legal alternative name.

CB

Thanks for the repiles, especially for those clearing up the womble issue.

Been using a single overhand knot for over 25 years, why complicate matters with an extra unnecessary knot that increases the chances of your rope getting stuck.

Same here, especially when using slick new ropes, or icy ones.

CB