UKH

I've watched quite a bit of the world champs in Japan over the last few days.

Before this, I was one of those that wasn't happy with speed being combined with boulder and lead (because speed doesn't relate to climbing outside).

Now though, I'm quite happy about it. To put it simply, the triple format works. Without the speed, it wouldn't be as exciting or entertaining.

The idea for 2024 of having separate speed and a boulder plus lead double now feels wrong. I think the format we should be ultimately pushing for is the three individual competitions plus a combined (as in the world champs); i.e. 8 Olympic golds.

In addition, I think they should bring back awarding medals for outstanding mountaineering achievements between Olympics.

Erm, Piolet d'Or?

Post juxtaposition:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/walls+training/speed_climbers_not_getting...

The speed climbing would be more interesting if they set a new route for the competition rather than always using the standard route.

I admit I'm only fantasizing here, but it would be even more interesting if it was a team sport, the route was on real rock, and trad(hopefully this would be good for UK chances).

Yes,

But the same should also hold true for say the tripple jump (so change the distance between the start and jump line), or even better for the 100/110m hurddles (change height of the hurddles, amount of them and spacing).

I'm completely unsold on speed as part of a combined event. In the mens, the speed winner gained 4th overall only due to winning the speed event. He had one good boulder which suited his style and that was that. If he is speeds best hope, then it's a pointless inclusion. I admired his effort but it was nothing more than a hopeful box checking exercise. Same can be said of the Polish lady who won speed in the women's event.

Put simply, the evidence provided shows there is no way the speedsters can gain the necessary strength in one year to compete in boulder or lead. They may as well swap it with tiddly-winks, its inclusion is that arbitrary.

In the combined the speed specialist (Khaibullin) came 3rd overall not 4th and that was based on winning the speed and coming 5th in lead (placing higher than climbers who probably would have been expected to do better). Admittedly had Megos not withdrawn that would probably have been a 6th but the point still stands: he actually isn’t that far off the pack and in a year could be a serious threat at the olympics. He is unlikely to be able to win the boulder or lead events, but he doesn’t have to. However to podium or win he can’t come last in both.

Conversely, Tomoa’s speed time looks very good and maybe with more training could improve further making him the most likely for the gold medal at the moment.

Personally I think they should be separate events/medals. Having them combined is a bit like having the 100m event combined with a marathon.

Time will tell, I guess! Shall we have a UKC sweepstake?

I agree. The combined is actually not a bad format, each of the three disciplines requires something different, but there is, in my opinion, enough of an overlap that it is all  climbing. Yes speed appears to be a bit silly from an outdoor rock perspective, but actually it has its place in the competition world. Would be interesting if they reset the route every Olympic cycle perhaps? 

there are well documented reasons why this was not to be for 2020. See other threads.

As per the other threads, Sean McColl was world junior champ in speed and lead in the same season.........and i think you'll find the speedsters are quite strong enough. Lack of strength is not what i'd accuse any of them of having. Power endurance possibly, but they are way ahead on explosive power.

I meant the Olympics. https://www.topendsports.com/events/discontinued/alpinism.htm

I too enjoyed it. With Tomoa and Janga winning it's not like you can say the format produced a strange result. The scoring system and number of competitors in the final, has obviously been very carefully worked out to give the speed specialist half a fighting chance but with the likelihood boulders or lead climbers will get the medals. The inclusion of speed does however add an element of Russian roulette given how sketchy the non-specialists are with it. Certainly, it’s a comp where to get a good result you need both form and luck on your side.

I agree, however wasn't going to provide a performance breakdown using my phone. Too much tapping. I assumed people would get the gist, apologies for not being clearer.

They'll be combining shooting, sword fighting, running, swimming and horse jumping next! 

It will be interesting to see what the general public enjoys most from the three disciplines. I suspect (with no evidence) that the IOC thought speed climbing might be most attractive - but that actually Bouldering will prove to be.

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I agree. I think the combined format definitely gives something extra that was good to watch. It gave a more dramatic finish than you usually get with individual discipline events and the speed climbing also gave an extra test of the climbers - their nerves.  Lots of them made mistakes, which made the competition far less predictable.  All that said,  I think having separate events as well would be better. 

As a predominately trad climber I’m all for a combination of Olympic events that least reflect traditional climbing.

No evidence apart from the fact the IOC have significant experience at putting on televised sport shoes, and do seem to know what appeals to the great unwashed.

I think you may be right. Boulder finals do usually have that element of suspense - can she / cant she.......etc will he / wont he......etc

I do agree with you...
 

But my earlier post might give an insight why speed was always part of the deal... it's the only discipline in climbing where you can have a standardised and measured "record".

In bouldering and lead, it's like the 100m sprint can be anything between 50 and 300m... sure, you'lle get a winner each year, but no time to compare the in the next olympics...

Exactly - five of the obvious & undisputed best competition lead climbers and boulderers on the podium, plus one guy who got lucky because other people got injured or made mistakes, but is nevertheless a decent all rounder with a respectable track record. Can't really say that result looks like a lottery or is blatantly unfair.

That's what I thought but the non-climbers I have discussed it with all said lead was the best to watch, then speed then bouldering. 4 minutes of someone not getting anywhere is a dull watch........

Having decent TV commentators will increase understanding which will help audience appeal; e.g. things like, you can see he's getting tired because his elbows are coming out.

I would think that seen a blob move a wall up for 5 mins (or what's the timelimit for lead these days) followed by again a blob moving up but not really seeing/realising who's leading is pretty boring.

Comp (i.e. parkour) style bouldering atleast you pretty much have fast movement and you also see the whole darn thing, so easier to unders stand who's in the lead and who's not...

Speed is naturally the easiest to follow... a'la 100m sprint. Who ever has the fastest time, wins .

True, and perhaps overlay/ghost climber would be nice to have for the lead (and perhaps speed) in the olympics. That  way you could visually see the progress of the climber and compare it to the current leader.

You have a point but it would be nice, and may be they already do (I haven't checked because it doesn't interest me) if there was a new setting per season. New to everyone on the first cup than see the progress.

Probably not feasable but...

I'm not that bothered about completion climbing, but I don't see a significant problem with the inclusion of speed climbing. I think it plays a similar role to the decathlon 1500m, where most of the key competitors are completely the wrong build to be running anything beyond 400m. Hence it generally becomes less important about who is actually fastest in the 1500m and more about who can get round and not lose ground on the leader board. I think the speed event is similar.